The vedic civilization and evolution of society in India

Alms only to the worthy

The alms or donations of food and/or money should be given to the worthy. Alms are good karma only when given to the worthy. A giver has every right to ask the beggar for his identity, and the purpose of asking donation. The giver can refuse - every donation is voluntary.

Poverty/sickness is not a reason for asking a donation in Vedic tradition. The affairs of householders come under the responsibilities of the king. A king is required to provide economic opportunity to people, or to establish hospitals for the sick etc. The king can provide land to the landless, or start projects to employ the unemployed. King can give cow to a poor person, so that he can sell the milk and get some livelihood.

The Vedic people who ask for alms do so not due to physical weakness or illness or loss of ability to work, but due to a vow of not engaging in economic activity. The 'dharm' provides for it, as the prime objective of 'dharm' is spiritual progress. 'Dharm' instructs a person to spend considerable time of his life in learning and practicing religion.

Donation - how much

'dhan sanchay' or keeping excess money is against rules of 'dharm'.

Building a house in excess of requirement, collecting expensive objects without any need, storing too much idle gold/silver in personal treasury is against rules.

Donation is given of own desire. 'Dharm' does not explicitly says how much money you can keep. Each person knows in his heart what he does not need.

Donation to the needy, specially for the benefit of education (schools), hospitals for the elderly, inns/rest-houses for travellers, ponds and water spouts, food for ascetics etc. are traditional ways to give.

Veda encourages people to live simple life, in tune with nature using natural resources. As mother earth is bountiful, so a householder is expected to be generous. Giving always increases the wealth and life-span of the giver. People lived much beyond 100 years of age in Vedic times. There are stories of people living upto 400 years of age. There were people who never fell sick even once in their life. Bhishm Pitamah was fit as a young man at 250 years of age at the time of Mahabharat war.

'Atithi Seva' - Serving the learned guests

Inviting Sanyaasi, Rishi, Muni in household, organizing 'yajya' and listening to preach of such learned men, and caring for and donating to such learned people are the best good deeds a householder can do.

Only learned of Veda are called 'atithi' in Veda. Relatives or foreigners are not called 'atithi'.

Sanyaasi were consulted not only in religious matters but also financial and family disputes by village/town folks. Such was the importance and influence of Sanyaasi in Vedic time.

Vedic culture is based on giving, and sharing

A person is taught to give and care for others right from childhood. The Vedic 'yagya' is a great opportunity for the kids to learn about sharing. Young kids are seen serving food and water and take part in other communal activities.

Ladies often take care of the communal kitchen. The brotherhood and amity is something to be seen. All people contribute and sit together and eat together irrespective of caste, or class, or social status.

Bhagwan Rama hugged Nishad (a tribal king) like a brother. It must be noted that he was a crown prince of Aryavrata, and hugging a tribal king is a very big gesture. He ate 'ber' (a wild fruit) from the hands of Shabri - a tribal lady, a commoner. He stayed with common people in Ashrams throughout his forest stay, and ate what they provided him. He protected the Ashram from 'Rakshas' people wherever he stayed.

Bhagwan Rama was very particular about meeting ordinary folks. He cared for a common man like his own children.

Haridwar, Benares etc. - places of worship

The practitioners of Ashtang Yoga, and 'Vanprasthi' seek quiet places, away from settlements, but with access to water, firewood, and food.

Hilly areas are preferred by such people due to natural springs or perennial rivers, and forest cover.

Rishi establish their 'ashram' or community in quite places, near rivers, and in/near forested area.

There is no 'designated place of worship' in Vedic religion. The first rule is 'God is everywhere'. Second rule is 'God is to be find within'. These two rules together reject any place of worship like Haridwar or Benares.

Haridwar is a special place though as this general area has been home to countless 'tapasvi'. Benares does not have such distinction, except Kashi was an important kingdom and Benares was its capital city.

But no place has any magic attached to it. The people who go to a 'holy place' usually get into illusion. 'Teerthyatra' or pilgrimage is journey to attend a 'yajya' (or 'yagna') and can be any place where such 'yagya' is organized.

The meaning of 'Rakshas'

I have provided very longish explanation of origin of 'Rakshas' people in this thread. The translation of 'Rakshas' to 'demons' is wrong. 'Rakshas' is a human race.

Rakshas were outcastes of Aryavrata - people who were thrown out of country as punishment.

A person can develop large and strong body just like wrestlers do today. Ancient world had its own techniques and science, and we cannot compare modern methods to theirs. Some characters like 'Kumbhkarnn' in Ramayan or 'Bhim' in Mahabharat are described with giant bodies. Here giant should not be taken as hundreds of meters tall. A giant would mean exceptionally large and powerful - like a wrestler of today's world can be with respect to a common man.

Some humans, specially tribals named themselves on animals. I have explained that 'vanar' were humans, though 'vanar' can be taken as a monkey as well. 'Hanuman' was a normal human just like you or me. The depiction of Hanuman as a monkey (or any similarity to monkey) is wrong. A word can have multiple meanings in Sanskrit, and you can understand the correct meaning only by understanding the context. Sanskrit poetry can be hard to translate due to complex grammatical rules, and multiple meaning words.

People without economic means

There is a question of old people without sons and land, sick/infirm people etc. who cannot support themselves.

The primary support system is family. Immediate family or close family members provide the support. However if such support is not available, individuals are known to give up life by self-cremation etc.

Begging is not an option typically described in any authentic Vedic story. There are people who lose their land and money, and become day labourers, wood cutters etc.

The tradition of 'sati' comes into focus. This started in a very bad time, when Muslim soldiers typically raped or abducted young ladies of the vanquished cities. The honourable ladies saw no other option but to self-immolate to escape the humiliation. The practice of self-immolation in such dire circumstances is not anti-vedic.

However suicide is not sanctioned in 'dharm'. A widow is not asked to walk into husband's funeral pyre. A widow must be cared for by the immediate family. The widow can remarry to the younger brother of husband, if the family agrees, or to another eligible man. Even if a widow does not remarry, her children should get her husband's property and she becomes the caretaker.

It has been my effort not to avoid difficult issues. There are a lot of misconceptions about Veda and Vedic society due to ignorance, deliberate lies, disinformation etc. My effort has been to present an honest picture.

You can ask me anything you want - including the most controversial topic.

The Vedic culture lasted till about 2000 years after Mahabharat war (~1100BC) in most parts of Bharat, and till about 600 BC in the core of Bharat, but it eventually gave way to bevy of non-vedic religions and practices.

I believe that two things - education and feudal society were the factors that led to this situation.

Ramayan time had the proper Vedic social systems in place - a meritocracy sustained by strong kings, State appointed Ritvij, and an educated society.

We do not see a functioning meritocracy in Mahabharat time. It is replaced by a feudal structure, where education is peripheral or optional. We still see continuation of Vedic practices, specially rituals. But the society is not able to properly understand Vedic thought.

What people confuse here is that Veda and Vedic social system are two different things.

Veda contains the knowledge given by God to man. This knowledge was used by man to create political, legal and social systems.

Manu Bhagwan, the first king of Aryavrata wrote ManuSmriti to help subsequent rulers and public with the job of administration.

The social system set up by Manu Bhagwan stood the test of time, and the nation of Aryavrata lasted a very very long time on earth.

There can be alternate social systems that are Vedic as well, and I explained that possibility. However ManuSmriti contains the best system for a planet like Earth.

Drinking Soma

Vedic people have been alleged as drinking a wine called 'soma-rasa', as this word is found in Veda.

This is the most laughable and inaccurate of all allegations.

Soma refers to 'chandrma' (moon), or the magnetic power of God that sustains growth of plant life. The light of moon is called 'soma-rasa'.

'soma-lata' is a creeper that grows naturally in south Asia, and is considered a natural anti-biotic. It is used as a medicine for cough, cold, fever, and stomach disorders.

Beneficial effects of sunlight and moonlight

A bedroom window to the east, which brings unobstructed sunlight and moonlight in the room is very good.

Moonlight is considered vital to growth of body cells. Sunlight is good for skin and bones. Good exposure to sunlight (at sunrise and sunset) and moonlight on a regular basis increases the health of the person.

People often sleep on the roof of house in rural areas. Maybe this is the secret of better health of rural folks.

How to gain more knowledge about Vedic religion

The best bet is to go to Arya Samaj Mandir nearest to you and talk to the priest or other people. Please attend the weekly 'yagna' and observe the rituals. Please feel free to ask questions to the priest or other followers of Vedic dharm.

There is a dearth of English resources on Vedic dharm. The language of dharm is 'Sanskrit', as all important books are written in Sanskrit.

A basic knowledge of Sanskrit is essential to chanting Veda mantras. You should not chant in yagna (only listen) until you have developed the capability to chant correctly. It takes time and a lot of practice to chant correctly. The best bet is to listen a lot and practice a lot - the basic 'agnihotra' mantra.

Taking vegetarian food (no meat, no eggs, no sea-food) is essential requirement of Vedic religion. Being truthful, not stealing from others, control over sexual desire, and living within means (simple living) are other basic requirements. A person can stay in his family while observing these requirements. There is no need to leave a job or a family. Vedic religion does not make you an ascetic. You can live life as before and wear the same clothes as before. You do not have to change your name, or any other outward identification.

your whole post is just great.
But i have a question somewhere in your post you said "jat" are from outside india but we follow vedic rituals. Yes we have some superstations but in yugs i observed we are also raguvansi.
my father told me we are vadic jatt.pls clarify.

reply to post by ignant


Nope.

Lee Strobel in THE SEARCH FOR THE REAL JESUS

soundly refutes such allegations and origins in a very scholarly way.

In terms of ancient India . . . I do believe many great libraries were destroyed by the rabid believers in the satanic moon cult that morphed into Islam as a handy CONQUEST vehicle.

Nevertheless, my Prof for 3 different univ courses from Bombay had plenty of references to the ancient historical facts. I had no alternative sources from which to compare her information. However, she seemed to be congruent and fairly detailed.

She was convincing about the UFO and atomic sorts of technologies.

hairy
indian
nation
does
unite

reply to post by vedatruth


I'm Muslim from India. Enjoying reading of Vedic religion.


If Vedic is religion of Most Merciful Lord of Universe than where are the followers? Why knowledge disappear?

Why Islam is anti-Vedic religion?

What is literal meaning of Veda/Vedic?

Do u remember conversation between Shri Ram & Hanuman regarding worshiping god in making its image? I cannot recall that conversation.

Originally posted by vedatruth
How to gain more knowledge about Vedic religion

The best bet is to go to Arya Samaj Mandir nearest to you and talk to the priest or other people. Please attend the weekly 'yagna' and observe the rituals. Please feel free to ask questions to the priest or other followers of Vedic dharm.

There is a dearth of English resources on Vedic dharm. The language of dharm is 'Sanskrit', as all important books are written in Sanskrit.

A basic knowledge of Sanskrit is essential to chanting Veda mantras. You should not chant in yagna (only listen) until you have developed the capability to chant correctly. It takes time and a lot of practice to chant correctly. The best bet is to listen a lot and practice a lot - the basic 'agnihotra' mantra.

Taking vegetarian food (no meat, no eggs, no sea-food) is essential requirement of Vedic religion. Being truthful, not stealing from others, control over sexual desire, and living within means (simple living) are other basic requirements. A person can stay in his family while observing these requirements. There is no need to leave a job or a family. Vedic religion does not make you an ascetic. You can live life as before and wear the same clothes as before. You do not have to change your name, or any other outward identification.

Thank you vedatruth for putting this amazing thread togheter and understandable,

If you follow Yama and unintentionally get a bit of meat into your body. Is this the same as eat intentionaly a bit of meat, does intentions matters?