Is religion a crutch?

I don't know if this is the correct board or not... mods please move it if it is in the wrong one. I've recently read this excerpt from Martin Luther, and, personally I have no problem with people believing what they want about religion if it doesn't interfere with other people's rights. But, this quote opened from the commentary on Galatian really opened my eyes about religion.

Although I am a sinner by the law … yet I despair not … because Christ liveth,
who is both my righteousness and my everlasting and heavenly life. In that
righteousness and life I have no sin, no sting of conscience, no care of death. I
am indeed a sinner as touching this present life and the righteousness thereof,
as a child of Adam … But I have another righteousness … which is Christ the
Son of God, who knoweth no sin (Dillenberger 106).

God resets the boards, and he can be your crutch, when you need it. We speak of crutches like there aren't times that they are necessary. Other passages are about wanting fully mature autonomous Christians. So, yea, there is only a partial crutch system.

And if you see a lot of crutched Christians, you see those who haven't learned to stand on their own, but still need training wheels.

Yes. Some people do use religion as a crutch, but as CD so eloquently put it, some people need that.

I used to hate all religions just for general purposes, but then I mellowed with age and realized that these types of people typically aren't the ones doing stupid things and grabbing the headlines in a negative way. They're peaceful and typically don't try to push their agenda down your throat.

They're doing their own thing and hurting no one in the process, so I really can't harbor any resentement towards them. And neither should anyone else IMO.

So what if religion is a crutch? Is it more harmful that sex, drugs, alcohol or any of the other human vices?

I think that the true purpose of religion has been bastardised and lost through the ages.

I used to hate all religions just for general purposes, but then I mellowed with age and realized that these types of people typically aren't the ones doing stupid things and grabbing the headlines in a negative way. They're peaceful and typically don't try to push their agenda down your throat. They're doing their own thing and hurting no one in the process, so I really can't harbor any resentement towards them. And neither should anyone else IMO.

I'm down with that.
Religion can be a crutch but far too often historically it has been used as a cudgel.

Keep religion out of politics. Real religionists would be happy with that.
Religion was perverted when it was used to control the masses for the elite. It works well to control the masses inside the elite.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Okay... but do these people that believe in this line of thought really believe that all their actions on Earth are excusable? It just sounds like a lot of people believe in religion because it gives them an excuse to be a jerk. Tehy figure if they're a jerk and if Christ dies for their sins, than, they are free to do what they please. I have been consistent with my belief time and time again-- that I do not believe that it was in Jesus's intention, nor in God's intention, nor in any spiritual being, to advocate for carelessness, or, to tell people that their actions are inconsequential. I do believe that these spiritual beings just meant that if you were to make mistakes, than, you would be forgiven for it.

It does not say, that, you should just be a really evil person, and, do whatever the hell you want (which many religious followers do)...

I don't have a problem with keeping religion in politics. I have a problem with politics hijacking religion to it's own ends. Like most things in life, the end outcome would look the same, either way, but there's a huge difference in how we get there.

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
Religion can be a crutch but far too often historically it has been used as a cudgel.

Exactly, keyword historically. Do you really think that Christians today want to hold back technology and advancements? Most Christians I know love technology, space and exploration. The dark ages are behind us. It's about time we start leaving a lot of past grudges behind us as well instead of beating a dead horse.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
Religion can be a crutch but far too often historically it has been used as a cudgel.

Exactly, keyword historically. Do you really think that Christians today want to hold back technology and advancements? Most Christians I know love technology, space and exploration. The dark ages are behind us. It's about time we start leaving a lot of past grudges behind us as well instead of beating a dead horse.

*sigh* not everything about the dark ages was dark from the various religions out there. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the political stances back then were evil, don't care if it came from faith or not, but there was a lot of good done as well.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
So what if religion is a crutch? Is it more harmful that sex, drugs, alcohol or any of the other human vices?

I think that the true purpose of religion has been bastardised and lost through the ages.

haha much more harmful
but yes it has been twisted by man
religion should be the idea that someone or something created the universe, nothing more nothing less

Originally posted by UniverSoul
haha much more harmful
but yes it has been twisted by man
religion should be the idea that someone or something created the universe, nothing more nothing less

Opinion. Most likely because all you have seen is harm. Not belittling your stance, mind you.

When something or someone created the Universe, what does that mean to you? As soon as you put meaning to that, you've got another thought about religion, which you just stated is useless. Technically, the nothing more/nothing less is an "extra" that people could twist to kill over.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by UniverSoul
haha much more harmful
but yes it has been twisted by man
religion should be the idea that someone or something created the universe, nothing more nothing less

Opinion. Most likely because all you have seen is harm. Not belittling your stance, mind you.

When something or someone created the Universe, what does that mean to you? As soon as you put meaning to that, you've got another thought about religion, which you just stated is useless. Technically, the nothing more/nothing less is an "extra" that people could twist to kill over.

i just think its pointless to add rules and regulations to such an idea and to opress people into what the church wants. for mearly nothing more than an idea that has no evidence.
if there was evidence i could understand but its really just baffaling
yes i have seen harm and thats why i dont think people should support a group like the church. why should your opinions effect others as much as the church has its a joke
it should be personal and really not based on such lies, it ruins the foundations

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

Okay... but do these people that believe in this line of thought really believe that all their actions on Earth are excusable? It just sounds like a lot of people believe in religion because it gives them an excuse to be a jerk. Tehy figure if they're a jerk and if Christ dies for their sins, than, they are free to do what they please. I have been consistent with my belief time and time again-- that I do not believe that it was in Jesus's intention, nor in God's intention, nor in any spiritual being, to advocate for carelessness, or, to tell people that their actions are inconsequential. I do believe that these spiritual beings just meant that if you were to make mistakes, than, you would be forgiven for it.

It does not say, that, you should just be a really evil person, and, do whatever the hell you want (which many religious followers do)...

I see what you are trying to say, but it was addressed in Romans by Paul. Effectively, the control is the love of Christ. When someone loves you that much, you make every effort to not offend them. When you are saved and have the true realization of the sacrifice of Christ for you, you certainly do not want to sin any more. It's as if it hurts Him all the more on the cross back then, as if the separation of time did not exist. Therefore, for a true Christian, sin is abhorrent, and not something you can do and do over again knowing you are forgiven. While you do know you are forgiven, you avoid sin at all costs to avoid hurting Him.

Originally posted by UniverSoul
i just think its pointless to add rules and regulations to such an idea and to opress people into what the church wants.

I totally agree with the second half. The first half would take a huge dissertation on the benefit of some rules in a society that are mandatory. Even the adult Atheists I know agree with this magical paper I'm not writing, because they're the ones who bring up the need for a social moral code with me. They jsut don't like it when it's called a moral code.

for mearly nothing more than an idea that has no evidence.
if there was evidence i could understand but its really just baffaling

A and B clash. Either there is NO evidence, or you're humble enough to understand that you don't understand the arguments enough to make a decision. Simplest stance: "There is no evidence that makes sense to me." Non-aggressive, doesn't put the blame on anyone's inability to make sense, and gives everyone a firm reference point as to your stance.

yes i have seen harm and thats why i dont think people should support a group like the church.

Others in here have seen harm in some Churches, but not others. Some have seen good in other faiths--as well as evil in other faiths. This is big melting pot of ideas and ideology.

why should your opinions effect others as much as the church has its a joke
it should be personal and really not based on such lies, it ruins the foundations

1. Why should opinions affect anyone? Are we honestly that weak? 2. No one likes to believe that they hang on a lie. Even you. 3. Personal doesn't automatically mean simplistic. No one's had a relationship that was all ups and no downs, I don't understand why people assume it has to magically be different for us just because God's involved?

Could go on, but that's an ok starting point. Night.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I beg to differ... Religion does hurt people and it has hurt people over Centuries. Take a look at
the History books. People become strange when Religion grabs hold of them. People should
have the freedom to believe what they wish, however, when God comes into the Equation, and
Religion rears it's ugly head, no one is safe from it's retribution. Religion creates and has Created
War for Millenia, it's pretty obvious that Religion creates Division and War, Religion Kills.

All true, but one can't sometimes help but think that staunch anti-religion is also sometimes a crutch these days.

But I suppose a "crutch" can be a good thing in one meaning too, if it helps you walk, where otherwise you can only crawl.

religion = a comfort blanket..

if it wasn't for the 'elites' giving us religion they wouldn't have the control over us!!

it is why they need to create a new one world religion to give their greedy world order a chance!!

just like the other ages have had religious figures given to the slaves!!

religion keeps people in a stupid pathetic state of mind, divided and conquered!!

what you think to this?-

this human with a supposed name of jesus tried giving us great spiritual teachings, the 'elites' new where these teachings would lead, so they killed him.

to divert people and their Energy the 'elites' set things up so that we're putting our faith, belief our Energy, "over there", into 'that' figure "over there"... its always been about the christ within, that little bit of The One, The Universe, God inside us all!!! Our true potential!! We are the ones we've been waiting for!!

jesus is pronounced heyzeus in south america, it comes from 2 or 3 greek words that translate to son of zeus..

alberto rivera told how the vatican created islam. islam = mal si = bad yes in spanish..lol.

when the roman empire[1st reich] collapsed it went underground and became the vatican

2012 is a time for growing up, evolving and stepping up to the next level!!

can enough people wake up, stand on their own 2 feet and tip the balance?? i hope so!!

Originally posted by awareness10
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

I beg to differ... Religion does hurt people and it has hurt people over Centuries. Take a look at
the History books. People become strange when Religion grabs hold of them. People should
have the freedom to believe what they wish, however, when God comes into the Equation, and
Religion rears it's ugly head, no one is safe from it's retribution. Religion creates and has Created
War for Millenia, it's pretty obvious that Religion creates Division and War, Religion Kills.

Religion may, but not everyone who practices it. When you put a blanket over something like that you're not going to see the whole thing for what it is.

True, religion has, and will continue, to hurt, brainwash and kill people. But there are people out there who would be totally lost without belief systems such as Christianity. But not the types with all the negative side effects.

Did religion do that to them?

Were they like that anyway and relgion just so happens to be the tool they can use to give them comfort and security?

Who knows.

All I know is that the type of people I'm talking about, you don't want to pull that rug out from beneath their feet because they won't have anything else to stand on. They're not the one's who hurt, brainwash and kill people. They may hurt themselves by keeping the blinders on to what life really does have to offer, but they're not hurting you are they?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

Okay... but do these people that believe in this line of thought really believe that all their actions on Earth are excusable? It just sounds like a lot of people believe in religion because it gives them an excuse to be a jerk. Tehy figure if they're a jerk and if Christ dies for their sins, than, they are free to do what they please. I have been consistent with my belief time and time again-- that I do not believe that it was in Jesus's intention, nor in God's intention, nor in any spiritual being, to advocate for carelessness, or, to tell people that their actions are inconsequential. I do believe that these spiritual beings just meant that if you were to make mistakes, than, you would be forgiven for it.

It does not say, that, you should just be a really evil person, and, do whatever the hell you want (which many religious followers do)...

Not the one's I'm talking about. They're humble and they try their best to do the right thing by their God and by themselves. The one's you're talking about and the one's who grab the headlines are the ones who give true Christians a bad name. But since they do grab the headlines so much, people think it's the norm.

It's not.

Religion a clutch? Well, maybe for some.
But religion has also been shown to be a very strong motivating factor in fighting back atheist powers... in real wars, with guns and bombs.