WTC 1/2 Collapse: I was a truther. Not any longer.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM


Bested? Hardly. Did you watch the video of the thermite test that engineer did to prove that thermite could cut steel beams instantly? Loud hissing, lots of sparks, but no KABOOM like you'd get with C4 or TNT.

Exactly, and what are others saying? They heard powerful explosions that were apparently launching steel beams and turning entire floor assemblies (steel pans and trusses included) into dust and ejected outside the footprint . Werent you just saying how the sound doesnt matter, and what he said is trolling?

Thermite cutting beams? Thats a shocker! no wait, I knew that from long ago. All that video did is confirm a fact, thermite can cut a beam. Whooopeeee!! Let us see it work against a vertical column. Then you'll get somewhere.

Explain the molten steel flowing in the sublevels, and the pools of molten metal the firefighters saw. Jet fuel can do that? Burning furniture can do that? No, and no. Wise up to the fact that the 9/11 commission was a whitewash top to bottom. Please, you and all the rest of you get your heads out of your donkeys.

really? It was confirmed as molten steel? And just how hot must it be in the sublevel for steel to stay molten? How did the firefighters survive those temps? Who said anything about jet fuel or burning furniture? I havent seen so many erroneous statements in one sitting like that in a while.

Do you even have any idea as to what the 9/11 Commission was for? I can tell you dont, as many truthers dont. Typical, dont have all the facts, make up crap to fill in the HUGE gaps, and then lie lie lie and twist twist twist, to make it all fit. I suggest you take your own advice and get some actual facts, before telling others what to do. First things first, read up on what the 9/11 Commission Report was tasked to do. I do agree with you on that account that it was a whitewash. Just, I have a better understanding of why it is. You dont.

Oh yeah, isn't also interesting how all you people who believe the official fairytale never mention building 7 in your arguments. Very interesting indeed.

Excuse me, what is the title of this OP? Oh yeah, WTC 1/2
I dont see a 7 in there, do you?

Originally posted by ZEN357
911 was an inside job, plain and simple! Quit trying to convince others that it wasn't! It was an inside job by the nazi's who have infilitrated this country's government!

edit on 9/23/2011 by ZEN357 because: (no reason given)

I KNEW IT! Hitler was involved!

It's so plain and simple that 10 years later, people are just as vociferous with their dissent about it as when it happened.

reply to post by Gando702


Do you know what ?
I read your opening post and to me , it appears you were a truther for about 30 seconds , before you changed your mind , if indeed you were ever a truther to begin with .

If you were a truther , you would never have been swayed by such a load of rubbish .


You flag waving , die hard patriots make me sick . FFS open your mind and see the truth before the next 9/11 happens.

The 6 year old Popular Mechanics article pretty much explains away the majority of the truthers arguments. The Nano-thermite is a new one, but I'm pretty sure the evidence for nano-thermite is just being misread.

I find that conspiracy nuts will jerk their knees and jump at every shadow, even when there's nothing to jerk or jump at. It's much easier for people to connect the dots to a non existent picture when people are scared or need to find meaning in something.

It's been 10 years and there has yet to be a single irrefutable piece of proof that couldn't be explained away by something else, (which was probably even more likely), and in the end, those people who think that more happened than really did happen will never be convinced. They'll continue to see those pictures from the mishmash of dots and whatever fits their theories, they'll keep and what doesn't, they'll discount.

While I say that it's possible that there was a government conspiracy, I find it highly unlikely that no solid proof has been found for such a FAR REACHING conspiracy such as 9/11.

Conspiracy Theorists say that it's NOT possible that it's NOT a conspiracy. I always tend to discount people who say that it's not possible.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by pteridine

 

a combination of thermate and explosives would make the collapse quieter and less suspicious. use thermate to remove some resistance over time, then smaller explosives charges could be used which would result in less noise and light.

makes sense.

There is no evidence of thermite, thermate or explosives. Using either thermite or thermate in a combination with explosives would result in unpredictable behavior and threaten exposure through premature collapse. No explosives/therm*te would work fast enough to clear the remaining floors in 150milliseconds, each, without being obvious.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
You're talking about commercial demolition. While you're correct about the homemade thermate in the video, the military has much better stuff, and who is to say that they didn't use nanothermite to weaken the beams in the minutes before the collapse, ensuring a nice floor-to floor pancake effect? This was not a commercial demolition. The military does demolition also.

I am well aware of military demolition capabilities. While there is no evidence for your theory, how much weakening would you predict would be necessary? It would seem that once the collapse started, gravity would take care of the " nice floor-to floor pancake effect" without any help.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by pteridine

 

a combination of thermate and explosives would make the collapse quieter and less suspicious. use thermate to remove some resistance over time, then smaller explosives charges could be used which would result in less noise and light.

makes sense.

There is no evidence of thermite, thermate or explosives. Using either thermite or thermate in a combination with explosives would result in unpredictable behavior and threaten exposure through premature collapse. No explosives/therm*te would work fast enough to clear the remaining floors in 150milliseconds, each, without being obvious.

How do you know there is no evidence when 99% of the would be evidence was shipped to China in the blink of an eye? Also, what do you think about the samples that researchers claim to have? They are all just lying?

reply to post by Gando702


are you serious?

Because you found something that made you think a little - YOU DROP THE WHOLE THING!?

All the other crap going on... And just because of THAT you let it all go!?


Thats almost funy.... But mostly sad.

So how many Jews worked at the WTC?
Israel has not given any specific figures on this matter and Israel is unlikely to volunteer this information in the near future. However, immediately after the attack, the Israel Insider suggests that there were a great deal of Israelis who were employed at the WTC: “According to media reports, many Israelis work in the high tech companies and trade agencies in the towers.”2

While the term “many Israelis” is rather vague, we do know that there are some Israeli companies that had offices there. The Jerusalem Post reported something that deserves further consideration: “The Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem has so far received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack.” 3

Of course, The Jerusalem Post does not say how many Israelis specifically worked at the WTC—just that they were “believed to have been in the areas.” However, if only half that number—2,000—had worked there, it would make sense if 120 had perished if we base this on the 6 percent of all other people at the WTC who were killed on that terrible day.
President Bush spoke somewhat prematurely about this matter and said that many Israelis died at the WTC. He did this because there were rumors that no Israelis had died. However, the President said this before the toll had actually been counted, while Israelis were still trying to contact their relatives but were having difficulties and assuming the worst. President Bush suggested that 4,000 Israelis were said to have been “in the areas of the WTC and Pentagon” on 9-11.

130 Israelis had perished. If what Bush had said was true, this would mean that Israel did not give their citizens advance warning. However, Bush spoke too early, and what he said was false.
According to CNN, the final tally proved quite different from Bush’s early comments. In fact, according to CNN.com, only one Israeli is mentioned, Alona Avraham, who died during the WTC disaster. This one Israeli was not inside the building but inside the plane on UA Flight 175.
4

Another Israeli, Daniel Lewin, also died, but he had dualcitizenship with the U.S. and is listed as an American at CNN’s website. This brings the total to two people if he is included as an Israeli. He was also on a plane and not inside the WTC. According to the Jewish website and paper Israel Insider, “He served as officer
in the Israel Defense Forces for more than four years.”
5
So, while two Israelis died in a plane, there were no Israelis who died inside the WTC on that day. Not one single Israeli. Some people might think this is kind of a miracle—but not if Israel knew in advance about the attacks.
Let’s stop for a minute and think about the two known Israelis who were inside a plane and were killed. If Israel warned all of its citizens at the WTC in advance, why didn’t it also warn its citizens who were planning to use those flights? There are two logical possibilities to this query.
If the Israelis were monitoring the Arabs and knew their plans, they might have known what was being planned but they might not have known the particular planes that were to be used. So, while Israelis may have been warned in advance what was to occur at the WTC, they might not have been given the specific flights that were to be used. Further, if the Arabs bought these tickets at the last minute, the Israelis might not have been able to
comb the airports and look for their fellow Israelis. Indeed, if the Israeli government wanted to forewarn their fellow Israelis, they obviously couldn’t announce over the airport’s intercom that all Israelis should not board planes because Arab terrorists were planning on destroying the WTC with planes.

It is also possible that the two Israelis aboard the flight were members of the Mossad and wanted to see this happen. Perhaps they were there to ensure that the operation was a success. After all, Lewin, as noted above, had been an officer in the Israel Defense Forces. This possibility will be looked at in more detail later. Several things have been shown to be amiss so far. No Israelis died inside of the WTC and only two known Israelis died
inside of the planes. These strange occurrences are enough to make one suspicious, but more proof is needed to demonstrate Israel’s foreknowledge and possible involvement. Such proof is readily
available.
p.32-35

The British Broadcasting Corporation, which is well respected around the globe, reported that many of the so-called Arab Terrorists who were supposed to have been on the planes the day of the WTC attack are still alive. Many other sources have corroborated the BBC’s findings. So who were some of these people if not the Muslim extremists that the media and government keeps telling us they were? Could some have been Mossad agents?
p. 54

webzoom.freewebs.com... (read for the whole story)

It is my belief that yes, 2 planes were indeed flown into the buildings, whether or not it was with the aid of controlled demolition, I also believe, is irrelevant.

Frankly, I think the 'how' aspect is only a distraction for conspiracy theorists to pre-occupy their minds from studying as to 'WHO' it was.

Afterall, when Bin Laden was alive and listed on the FBI 'top 10 list', he was wanted for bombings in such places as Kenya, but the incident of 9/11 was not listed. When the FBI commissioner was questioned as to why this is, he admitted that there was no real proof that Osama was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Now, I don't want to come off as racist, because I am not, however, after reading Paul Findleys book "They Dare to Speak Out"....I am quite disturbed as to how deep the interests of Israel have not only penetrated our American government, but literally own us as a nation. Almost as if the United States of America should now be called U.S.I.:The United States of Israel.

Again, read the book in the link I have provided before you want to counter my arguments. In order to be completely un-biased, on must look into both sides in-depth.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
How do you know there is no evidence when 99% of the would be evidence was shipped to China in the blink of an eye? Also, what do you think about the samples that researchers claim to have? They are all just lying?

The evidence was not all shipped to China. There are threads on ATS that address that claim.

The researchers have not shown that their samples are thermite. Look up henryco's comments on the darksideofgravity.com. His findings and my analyses of the Jones paper show the faults with the paper and the concept of paint-on thermite.

It's funny that the "pilots" were trained to fly cessnas, and then magically were super pilots in boeing 747s with just cessna training.

Anyway, thermite residue found in WTC dust. As far as the explosions go, its possible shape charges were used to out the power to the building (elevators, phones, etc) and for several other reasons.
911research.wtc7.net...

Originally posted by smarterthanyou
It's funny that the "pilots" were trained to fly cessnas, and then magically were super pilots in boeing 747s with just cessna training.

Anyway, thermite residue found in WTC dust. As far as the explosions go, its possible shape charges were used to out the power to the building (elevators, phones, etc) and for several other reasons.
911research.wtc7.net...

Considering that all they had to do was steer and increase the throttle, I imagine it wasn't that hard.

Most of the training is needed for taking off and landing.

I have said this earlier and I dont think anyone saw it....... If the truth movement spent 1/2 the time it spends on stupid theories that try to explain what happened after the fact instead of all the information as to who planned it, funded it, what groups owned and operated the FAA software, the use of the war game exercises as an operational cover to execute the attack, how Israelis were shadowing the hijackers (living next door) can almost be seen as making it happen. The Israeli art students etc etc, the truth movement would have blown the hole thing open by now.

Forget Thermite, forget the collapse focus on information before the plane hit the tower. Dont get caught in the pre-engineered information rut they planned to keep you in with all these stupid theories. REmember that these stupid theories were created by the perps.

reply to post by Gando702


This is like the fifth "I used to be a truther, but I saw the light that the Official story is GREAT!" thread that has popped up within a week.

Coincidence?

I

Think

Not

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Gando702


How did your wife feel about building 7 did she think that was gonna collapse as well. Where does one get a degree in architecture that rationalizes a structure falling through the greatest point of resistance at freefall speed? Did she get a grant from taxpayers for that education? Look I'm sure everything I just mentioned has been covered adnauseum but I read your OP and I posted - guilty.

I don't mean any disrespect but I can't imagine crossing the Rubicon twice on this subject. You are entitled to your opinion and me mine and we are entitled to agree to disagree. Best of luck friend.

Ignorance truly is bliss...

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Jeesh, they don't need to reconstruct it with a plane hitting the building. Using the same amount of jet fuel at the approximate scale ratio where the plane hit, would give us a good indication whether a steel high rise could collapse due to fire.

Jeesh...again the towers didn't collapse just because of the fires...and yes to recreate what happened you need to have a passenger plane with fuel, luggage, and the combined weight of the people who were originally in the plane and crash it into a SKYSCRAPER about 10-18 floors down from the top floor to reconstruct more or less what happened to the towers...

Do you know how silly you sound when you people keep claiming "the towers couldn't collapse just because of a fire"?... How many times do you have to be told, and shown time and again that "THERE WEREN'T ONLY FIRES"...

Originally posted by WeRpeons
According to the OS. it wasn't the planes hitting the tower that caused it to collapse, it was the so called "intense heat caused by the jet fuel that weakened the beam supports that caused the "pancake collapse."

So you don't think that planes crashing against a skysrapper, taking out several columns, causing a massive explosion and spreading fires all over the place wouldn't contribute to the towers collapsing?...

Originally posted by WeRpeons
It would at the very least give us the amount of time it takes for a building to collapse (if it does collapse) due to fire. If it doesn't collapse, than I think the government owes the world an explanation on why 3 buildings collapsed due to fire.

It would just be A WASTE OF TIME. If you want to recreate what happened you need to use every factor that contributed to the towers collapsing, and fire wasn't the only factor.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
There's no question it could be done. Where there's a will there's always a way. Unfortunately, our government has no will to ever reconstruct this event because they know if the building doesn't collapse, they'll all be in the hot seat and Americans will want their heads.

I have to question the sanity of every person who keeps claiming "it can be reconstructed" and then say "we just need to set a skyscrapper on fire and see if it falls"... Did you ever watch what happened that day?... Were the towers ONLY on fire?...

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

Fallacy!

You really think that would work?

I have been on sight with demolitions of buildings "iron worker" and WTC7 collapse is consistent with controlled demolitions. If i said that if i removed the skeletal structure from a human body and was to tell you in no way should it mean that that human could not stand up, walk around you would laugh your a** off... just like I am doing right now with your statement.

Really?

You are the one laughing?... *face palm* wow... No wonder most sane people think conspiracy theorists are insane...

A building can partially collapse inside and some of the outer walls and part of the interior can stay up longer, but eventually because of the weight, and the fires still ongoing which weakened the columns that were still standing, it had to collapse.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
Wow, try holding a candle to a piece of iron and see what happens.

hint: nothing

Now I have seen all there is to be seen... Are you insane? You have to be missing a few screws in the head to actually claim that large fires, tons of debris falling on WTC7, the shockwave from the explosions etc can be recreated by using a candle and a piece of iron...

BTW, to all the members claiming "it couldn't collapse due to fires", here is a reconstruction done by scientists which show more or less the damage that the planes caused to the towers.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

I have said this earlier and I dont think anyone saw it.....]
Spot on Shadow!
We will keep going in circles if people keep posting and replying to this nonsense.
Why come on here 10 years later with, I now believe the official story but not all of it.

And the architect wife (bit suss of that one) who didn't argue with op because of his closed mind on the subject.
This is wasting time.

edit on 24-9-2011 by Norry because: quote continued with my dialogue

edit on 24-9-2011 by Norry because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-9-2011 by Norry because: (no reason given)