People Who Pronounce and Spell the Name of Jesus In Weird Old Testament Variants are Going to Hell

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by daikaiju

 

Wikipedia is no credible source (It can be edited by anyone) try again.

If you think People in Judea in the time of Jesus were speaking Hebrew to each other, I think it would be an easy thing to prove.
Saying they did not, is universally accepted so the burden of proof is on you.

edit on 18-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Easy cop out to avoid doing some real work beforehand. You started the thread with your postings and have to defend what you write, in doing so the burden of proof will always lie with you.

It is ok, just admit you just have no idea on that which you write, it would be the Christian thing to do.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by daikaiju

 

Wikipedia is no credible source (It can be edited by anyone) try again.

If you think People in Judea in the time of Jesus were speaking Hebrew to each other, I think it would be an easy thing to prove.
Saying they did not, is universally accepted so the burden of proof is on you.

edit on 18-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Depends on which 'universe' you adhere to


First we have to look at a couple of facts. One fact is that we have a transcript of the Book of Matthew in Hebrew, which predates any manuscripts we have in Koinia Greek. (Koinia Greek was the Greek in Rome at the time of Yeshua. It is from the Koinia Greek that we have our current translations - the ones they say are the originals). This fact alone has to make us rethink if Greek was indeed the original language of the New Testament. It obviously wasn't. Another fact is that when we read in Josephus Wars 5:9:2 (Josephus lived during the time of Yeshua and even references Him as well as John the Baptist) we see that Josephus testifies that the people didn't even understand Greek. He had to translate what the Greek speaking Romans had to say to the Jews in order for them to surrender. In other words... they didn't know Greek!



We also have to look at New Testament passages themselves. We see that when Yeshua stopped Shaul (Saul) He didn't speak to him in Greek but rather Hebrew (some translations say Aramaic but even then in their footnotes say "or Hebrew". He didn't speak to him in Greek at all and we know that Paul DID speak Greek. We also have to understand a little about Jewish culture here. Hebrew has always been considered the "Holy language". The Scribes in Israel during the New Testament era also believed this. Writings that were considered to be holy were written in Hebrew, this was a given. Why would Holy Writ be done in a language of the pagans? Sure, later on there would be copies written in Greek for those who spoke Greek as their first language.



Another thing I hear often concerning this is that the New Testament was written in Greek so that the Jews of the Diaspora would be able to understand it as they all spoke Greek. This shows a lack of Jewish culture and understanding. Any Jew would know that Hebrew was taught to the Jews of the Diaspora. It was necessary in order to read the Old Testament in its original language! The letters that Paul wrote were to saved Jews in the synagogues in the Diaspora, Jews who knew Hebrew. That's not all.

Even the Church Fathers attest to this over and over again:



Papias (150-170 C.E.) Matthew composed the words in the Hebrew dialect, and each translated as he was able. (quoted by Eusebius Eccl. Hist. 3:39)



Ireneus (170 C.E.) Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect. (Irenaeus; Against Heresies 3:1)



Origen (c. 210 C.E.) The first [Gospel] is written according to Matthew, the same that was once a tax collector, but afterwards an emissary of Yeshua the Messiah, who having published it for the Jewish believers, wrote it in Hebrew. (quoted by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 6:25)



Eusebius (c. 315 C.E.) Matthew also, having first proclaimed the Gospel in Hebrew, when on the point of going also to the other nations, committed it to writing in his native tongue, and thus supplied the want of his presence to them by his writings. (Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 3:24)



Epiphanius (370 C.E.) They [the Nazarenes] have the Gospel according to Matthew quite complete in Hebrew, for this Gospel is certainly still preserved among them as it was first written, in Hebrew letters. (Epiphanius; Panarion 29:9:4)



Jerome (382 C.E.) "Matthew, who is also Levi, and from a tax collector came to be an emissary first of all evangelists composed a Gospel of Messiah in Judea in the Hebrew language and letters, for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed, who translated it into Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Furthermore, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Borea to copy it. In which is to be remarked that, wherever the evangelist... makes use of the testimonies

reply to post by Highlander64

this topic is of great importance in the scheme of things

Do you have a statement to make which would be the opposite of the thread title?
Such as if you do say Jesus you will go to hell, otherwise how is it important?

reply to post by MaMaa


Totally and absolutely agree with you! Jesus is Lord!

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Highlander64

 

this topic is of great importance in the scheme of things

Do you have a statement to make which would be the opposite of the thread title?
Such as if you do say Jesus you will go to hell, otherwise how is it important?

yes I have a statement - a quote from revelation 14 actually


6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear YHWH, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of YHWH, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of YHWH, and the faith of Ye'shuah

So where in the bible does it say that if you call him Jesus that you are going to hell? Where would you get that idea that you would be going to hell for saying it?

reply to post by jmdewey60

Do you have a statement to make which would be the opposite of the thread title? Such as if you do say Jesus you will go to hell, otherwise how is it important?

You actually can't see what he was getting at?

Good grief...you have to be some made up member for a few to get sh*** and giggles with...

No SANE christian would make a thread titled like that.....

You are a fake..or just trying to stir up crap ..or you are truly unable to see logic.

reply to post by daikaiju

What kind of Christian are you to say it is ok for a person to have a demon?
If this were true a real follower of Christ would do what he could to pray that demon out instead of mocking the situation.
You sir are one of the very deceivers that Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua/Christ warned us about.

I did not say it was ok, I was saying he had the right, as in I don't think he needs to be burnt alive or something.
The demons enter by invitation. I can't do exorcisms on the forum but I could warn people about not inviting demons by doing incantations by saying the forbidden words, and such things. It is all a form of magic and spells and Harry Potter type of thinking.
I am not mocking anything and this is not a joke thread.
And what is my deception, can you say?

Originally posted by MaMaa
So where in the bible does it say that if you call him Jesus that you are going to hell? Where would you get that idea that you would be going to hell for saying it?

The OP already stated that this was a opinion of his than a matter of fact, in other words he shot himself down a while ago

reply to post by Highlander64

I would say the burden of research and proof is on you my friend

I do not say that there are not people making all sorts of claims about the Bible. I was saying credible recognized academics of the New Testament talk about how the Greek was written. I don't run across them saying how it was written in another language.
You can cite web sites but they are by the enemy of Jesus, so are biased.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Highlander64

 

I cannot stand the word 'christian' being associated with what I believe (thats my 'opinion' ok?)

It sounds like you have a demon. That is ok with me and I think people have the right to have all the demons they want. I just would advise others to not go down this road, since you see what happens once they take hold.

This is where you said, your words not very christian as all, even as a joke.

Try and say now you didn't mean what you typed.

Originally posted by MaMaa
Why exactly would it mean your going to hell especially if they are all talking about the exact same flippin person? I could never believe in a religion that would send you to hell simply because you used the wrong 'approved' name for a person. What a stupid reason to be sent to hell anyway..

They accept another God.
There is one true God and we know Him in one way, which is through the revelation of the person, Jesus.
The trick of Satan is to lead people away from God by leading them to the angel of Siani and so committing idolatry with a god who is not God.

reply to post by daikaiju

Easy cop out to avoid doing some real work beforehand. You started the thread with your postings and have to defend what you write, in doing so the burden of proof will always lie with you.

It is ok, just admit you just have no idea on that which you write, it would be the Christian thing to do.

I knew a Rabbi who lived in Israel and was familiar with the people involved in the adoption of the language so I do know what I am talking about and you are just making things up that I do not have to ague in a way to prove anything since this thread is not about modern Hebrew.

reply to post by Highlander64
If you read the history of the church by Eusebius, you can can find the letter written by Jesus himself.
I have books by all the authors you cite and they all say all sorts of things that sound crazy to us today, so I do not take them directly as a credible source.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I am not making anything up, YOU DID, beginning with the title to your post which was NO biblical backing what so ever, hence the deception I spoke of earlier.

As for you saying "I knew a rabbi..." holds no weight either for how can you prove you had such a contact?

You state opinion with no backing and try to convince people this is fact.

Epic fail on a thread if i ever saw one.

reply to post by Highlander64

From Wikipedia.

Most scholars consider all the rabbinical versions to be translated from the Greek or Latin of the canonical Matthew, for the purpose of Jewish apologetics

en.wikipedia.org...

So this is pretty much meaningless trying to say that Mathew was made into the Greek from something else.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
My Bible says "Jesus", does yours ?
Do you watch movies or hear stories where demons are cast out in the name of Jesus?
Do you ever wonder if people who do not say or write, Jesus, but some Hebrew or Aramaic name instead, are demon possessed?

If language was so important why would God do this?



GE 11:8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel--because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.



We worship God in Spirit and in truth in hundreds of different languages.

reply to post by Highlander64

yes I have a statement - a quote from revelation 14 actually

The Greek says, Theon and Theou.
Revelation uses a lot of imagery from the Old Testament which should not be a surprise, considering the writer was a Jew

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Do you have a statement to make which would be the opposite of the thread title? Such as if you do say Jesus you will go to hell, otherwise how is it important?

You actually can't see what he was getting at?
Good grief...you have to be some made up member for a few to get sh*** and giggles with...
No SANE christian would make a thread titled like that.....
You are a fake..or just trying to stir up crap ..or you are truly unable to see logic.

If it is so simple and logical, then you should be able to easily explain it.

reply to post by daikaiju

This is where you said, your words not very christian as all, even as a joke.

Try and say now you didn't mean what you typed.

So, you believe people do not have demons?
We are commanded by Jesus to go town to town, casting out demons.
Now you are calling Jesus a liar. I don't think that is Christian. Do you?