People Who Pronounce and Spell the Name of Jesus In Weird Old Testament Variants are Going to Hell

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You really make a lot of assumptions about me being ignorant.
Why don't you just make general posts addressed to "All you really ignorant people out there"?

No, just because I disagree with you does not mean I think you are ignorant. You have made a lot of statements that are based solely in your own opinion and then you get upset when we remark on your statements and then ask us where we came up with that. It is your opinion that people who say Jesus with Hebrew variants are going to hell. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible against doing so and so then you said they study it for esoteric reasons. You say that the name of Jesus is to be used as it is written in English, is also esoteric.

reply to post by WarminIndy

There are Christians in Israel.

You call it Israel, I call it Palestine.

reply to post by WarminIndy

No, just because I disagree with you does not mean I think you are ignorant. You have made a lot of statements that are based solely in your own opinion and then you get upset when we remark on your statements and then ask us where we came up with that. It is your opinion that people who say Jesus with Hebrew variants are going to hell. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible against doing so and so then you said they study it for esoteric reasons. You say that the name of Jesus is to be used as it is written in English, is also esoteric.

No, because you talk like you are assuming I don't know anything.
I have opinions and you are free to have yours.
Why don't you make a thread about how there are no demons, no one goes to hell and being Jewish is just as good as being Christian?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

No, just because I disagree with you does not mean I think you are ignorant. You have made a lot of statements that are based solely in your own opinion and then you get upset when we remark on your statements and then ask us where we came up with that. It is your opinion that people who say Jesus with Hebrew variants are going to hell. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible against doing so and so then you said they study it for esoteric reasons. You say that the name of Jesus is to be used as it is written in English, is also esoteric.

No, because you talk like you are assuming I don't know anything.
I have opinions and you are free to have yours.
Why don't you make a thread about how there are no demons, no one goes to hell and being Jewish is just as good as being Christian?

There it is....Replacement Theology.

And I never said anything about demons not being real, I never said no one goes to hell and I will never say anything about the Jews as that.

And before I go back to bed to sleep, I will now say that I was just too nice before, and yes, you are ignorant about many things, including your own language.

Don't boast yourself against the vine.

You are anti-Semitic, now go convert the Jews.

reply to post by WarminIndy

You are anti-Semitic

When no argument is available to show you are right, then the last resort is to name-call, with apparently this being the trump card of insults.
You just said, this is what all your needling was about up until now, to have me make an implied comparison between Christianity and Judaism. Your denouncement of what you call replacement theory is just your way of saying Christianity is wrong when they claim that the promises were passed to those who believe in Jesus and we are adopted as sons and daughters of God through him.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Don't boast yourself against the vine.

Jesus is the vine.
John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me – and I in him – bears much fruit, because apart from me you can accomplish nothing.

. . .now go convert the Jews.

Jesus tried that.
Paul had a dream (figuratively speaking) that the Jews would become jealous of the gentiles and thus be induced to join in with the gentiles in enjoying Christianity. That did not happen. There are people who have invented a philosophy that there is an apocalyptic in-gathering of the Jews. Well, not really because the Jewish concept of apocalypse back then (time of Jesus and the Apostles) was the opening of the gates to have the nations come in. So there is no real substance to the idea being promoted that, for some reason, the Jews all of a sudden are converted to Christianity. It hasn't happened yet, and there is no reason to think it will.
Paul makes a threat to the believers in Jesus that if they fall away, they could be sharers in the fate of what happened to the Jews. That was not him saying this was actually God's plan.

All I can say is "wow", quite sad really.

reply to post by jmdewey60


And who or what gives you the right to say who is and who isn't going to hell?

You have blasphemed before your own ''god'' for assuming what he/she will do.

After all, I thought god was all merciful, I'm sure he'll forgive us for getting his name (supposedly) wrong.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm sure someone could cook up Hebrew words that would sound like Jesus Christ in Hebrew. And fool Christians into thinking that, when the actual translation would be "I Am saved through anointing". You could probably put that together.

Many Jewish schools of thought teach that Jews as a people are the Messiah, anointed ones. Therefore they are saying "I Am saved by being Jewish" or "I Am saved by being Messiah" I don't think that qualifies as Christianity. And duped Christians think they are saying Jesus Christ.

REV 2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9 I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Now isn't that a kick in the face. Christians saying Hebrew words they don't understand saying, "I am saved by being Jewish" are claiming to be Jews when they're not. Wow! Synagogue of Satan!

reply to post by jmdewey60


You are close to what I believe, that religion is a personal thing between you and the creator, that no particular view is correct because they are all flawed to some extent by human prejudices. And I mean this in the most fundamental way. It has been said that 3 people could read the same passage from the Bible and get 3 different messages from it. That is a personal view of what the meaning is as it relates to you, not something to base a religion on. That is why I don't get the whole concept that "if you don't believe like me then you are going to hell". And no, I am not trying to be a trouble maker, just looking for answers.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
All I can say is "wow", quite sad really.

I keep thinking to myself every day "Don't go to the thread, don't go to the thread...."

Then somehow I am here. I really need an intervention. ATS is addictive.

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by the4thhorseman

 

What was the name of Christ before He was a man?

I don't know about a name, but based on the evidences, I would say you could have called him "angel of the LORD", one like a son of man, and possibly a few other things.

I can't even seem to find an agreement on how to spell the actual Hebrew name.

One reason I hate languages that only have consonants and semi-vowels. EliYah.com has a good study on this here.

That is my point Christ did not have a name before the "Word became flesh" we see Angel of the Lord, the Lord the Son of man. That is why I was asking the OP. I believe anyway its actual act of Christ that saves us. I believe whether you call Him by His Jewish name or Greek name you are still calling upon the one that sits next to God the Father in heaven. The one that died for all man kind and rose again.

The OT does give the name of God. It was given to Moses in Exodus 3:13-14

13: And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?

14: And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

As you see Gods true name is I AM (hayah)..all other names given to Him show a revelation to His nature. The same as Jesus/Yahushua name "Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."


Thank you for the link I will look into it as well.

reply to post by the4thhorseman

That is my point Christ did not have a name before the "Word became flesh"

The only pre-incarnation Jesus interaction with people I have found that says it explicitly is where he is said to have been the rock from which water came for the Israelites in the desert.

reply to post by WarminIndy

English itself is an admixture of languages. John Wycliff called him Jhesu in his translation of the Bible before the KJV.

Wycliffe translated from the Vulgate, which was the only Bible version available (so says the internet). I want to quote an excerpt from his translation to get a bit of a feel for it.

"And on the tother dai, that is aftir pask euen, the princis of prestis and the Farisees camen togidere to Pilat,"

And the Star Wars reference, again, don't base religion on movies.

I did not give the title but now you have. I don't base my religion on movies but it is like a second language where everyone has a common point of reference. Are you going to say it can't happen, people going to the dark side by nurturing anger?

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
All I can say is "wow", quite sad really.

I keep thinking to myself every day "Don't go to the thread, don't go to the thread...."

Then somehow I am here. I really need an intervention. ATS is addictive.

This thread should have been over on page 2.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by the4thhorseman

 

That is my point Christ did not have a name before the "Word became flesh"

The only pre-incarnation Jesus interaction with people I have found that says it explicitly is where he is said to have been the rock from which water came for the Israelites in the desert.

That's a metaphor, the rock was a foreshadow. So was the brass serpent, and the Passover lamb. You're clueless to the OT Christophanies. "THE Angel of the Lord" is the most common OT appearances of Christ.

Originally posted by Mentalistbee
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

And who or what gives you the right to say who is and who isn't going to hell?

You have blasphemed before your own ''god'' for assuming what he/she will do.

After all, I thought god was all merciful, I'm sure he'll forgive us for getting his name (supposedly) wrong.

I don't actually hold in my hands the keys to heaven and hell, so I don't own the right to say who goes where.
There are a couple things that are certain, one being death, and you can call that, hell, if you like, and also, if you like, you can define it as the person dying has gone to being in a condition of being hidden from sight of the living.
So, everyone goes to hell, if one wanted to get technical. I happen to believe that the way for a person to be freed from this hell situation is through the agency of one, Jesus.
If you know of an alternative way, feel free to inform me and I will be nice, which would seem only the decent thing, seeing how I asked.
I agree with this part, "I'm sure he'll forgive us for getting his name (supposedly) wrong" because we can't go in a time machine and make a recording of just how he said his name. My point is about intentionaly disregarding what the New Testament says Jesus' name is, and saying it has to be in Hebrew.
In the Book of Acts, there is the story of how some of Jesus' followers were mistreated by the Sanhedrin for the name. One may ask themselves why someone would be so abused for a name. One reason I could think of is that it was considered an abomination to speak Greek on the temple grounds.
“Look! The men you put in prison are standing in the temple courts and teaching the people!”
They were brought into the council and told,
“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name."

So they left the council rejoicing because they had been considered worthy to suffer dishonor for the sake of the name.

And you will be hated by everyone because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.

I am also aware that you have persisted steadfastly, endured much for the sake of my name, and have not grown weary.

But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and governors because of my name.

who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me.

I am writing to you, little children, that your sins have been forgiven because of his name.

For they have gone forth on behalf of “The Name,” accepting nothing from the pagans.

Originally posted by rcanem
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

You are close to what I believe, that religion is a personal thing between you and the creator, that no particular view is correct because they are all flawed to some extent by human prejudices. And I mean this in the most fundamental way. It has been said that 3 people could read the same passage from the Bible and get 3 different messages from it. That is a personal view of what the meaning is as it relates to you, not something to base a religion on. That is why I don't get the whole concept that "if you don't believe like me then you are going to hell". And no, I am not trying to be a trouble maker, just looking for answers.

I can speak for myself and others may have their own reasons. Up until I started this thread I was a bit more ambivalent about beliefs to where I was saying you are not saved by belief, and that it boils down to how you act towards others. I had a modified view from just accepting that generically and said that there is a spirit in the world which Jesus made available to all, which people can utilize towards being that good person, whether they understood what the source of this spirit was, or not. Now, as in today, I think I was wrong because I failed to account for another factor, which is the evil spirit which is still loose in the world. This is where the correctness of belief comes in. An example is in the New Testament where people went out to cast out demons and the demon says, "I know Jesus but I don't know you". There are different ways to take that, but for this usage I would say that we need to have a steadfast connection to the name of Jesus to defy the demons. I feel more convinced of this than ever because of my observation of the responses I have gotten on this thread, that people who back away from the name of Jesus have no defense against the demons and they lash out in anger, because it is not in themselves, the ability to drive those demons out.

reply to post by jmdewey60

My point is about intentionaly disregarding what the New Testament says Jesus' name is, and saying it has to be in Hebrew.

We're still waiting for an example of someone who thinks or who has said this^.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
All I can say is "wow", quite sad really.

I keep thinking to myself every day "Don't go to the thread, don't go to the thread...."

Then somehow I am here. I really need an intervention. ATS is addictive.

I hope you did not take what I said about making your own thread to mean I did not want you posting on this one.