Try smokeless nicotine cigarettes, says government (UK)

Originally posted by UniverSoul

ahaha what a joke
i love the whole cigarette issue. perfect example of shifting the attention onto something pointless
the problem is the chemicals not the smoke

Yes because obviously breathing hot smoke into your lungs is perfectly healthy right?



Seriously..... smoke is BAD... doesn't matter what's in it, chemicals are far worse, but even without them, you'll still get sick and maybe die.

Hi all i live in uk and have just recently started using these to help me quit. I am a 40 a day smoker who has been smoking from the age of 12 and now im 45 so thats a lot of years and a lot of cigs!!!
My mother died at the age of 52 from throat and lung cancer and it was not nice seeing the pain she was going thru. These are a lot healthier for you as it does cut out the 4000 or so chemicals many of which are harmful. I do admit that i have had a few cigs daily but so hoping i can stop eventually. I started off on 34mg cartridges as i was a heavy smoker and now down to 24mg within a week!!!! so these e-cigs get a big thumbs up from me, now lets just wait and see when the goverment are going to realize there is big money to be made from these and slap a big TAX on them!!!!

Originally posted by caddlesee
Hi all i live in uk and have just recently started using these to help me quit. I am a 40 a day smoker who has been smoking from the age of 12 and now im 45 so thats a lot of years and a lot of cigs!!!
My mother died at the age of 52 from throat and lung cancer and it was not nice seeing the pain she was going thru. These are a lot healthier for you as it does cut out the 4000 or so chemicals many of which are harmful. I do admit that i have had a few cigs daily but so hoping i can stop eventually. I started off on 34mg cartridges as i was a heavy smoker and now down to 24mg within a week!!!! so these e-cigs get a big thumbs up from me, now lets just wait and see when the goverment are going to realize there is big money to be made from these and slap a big TAX on them!!!!

for those who think that you are still putting smoke in your lungs your not its vapor!! when you have a cold you put your head over a bowl of hot water and vicks vapor rub this clears your sinuses vapor isnt bad for you the smoke is!!

The E-Cigs are not much better for you then normal cigs. You're still burning an oil/vapor into your lungs which is full of carcinogens. It's a big fraud..

Originally posted by Kicking2bears
I am in the U.S.A and have just switched back to E-Cigarette's.

Warning: for about a week after you completely quit regular cigarettes you will cough up a frightening amount of discolored phlem. Then suddenly most people I've known find that their useage drops.

I was smoking almost a pack a day. In E-Cigg terms that is about a cartrige per day (or 250-300 puffs) and that's where I was when I switched over to my E-Cigg. In just under two weeks I am taking about 20-40 puffs per day. (That is less nicotine than 4 regular cigarettes!)

I know they weren't designed as device to help you stop smoking, but I am looking forward to quitting. I can already breath easier. But, even if I keep smoking my E-Cigg i can tell from how my lungs feel that it is less harmful than regular nicotine. Plus, I can smoke this anywhere and the Coalition of Non-Smokers can't say a thing because there is no nicotine being exhaled. It is not classified as a tobacco product so the bans against smoking do not apply to E-Cigg's. (In the U.S. it's a nicotine delivery system.) I love it and recomend it to anyone who smokes!

Thanks for that. I've been wanting to try them and now I think I'm ready. I'm going to visit the website and find out more. Maybe I'll make it an early Christmas present to myself. BTW does anyone know which countries they are banned in.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Kicking2bears

I know they weren't designed as device to help you stop smoking, but I am looking forward to quitting. I can already breath easier. But, even if I keep smoking my E-Cigg i can tell from how my lungs feel that it is less harmful than regular nicotine. Plus, I can smoke this anywhere and the Coalition of Non-Smokers can't say a thing because there is no nicotine being exhaled. It is not classified as a tobacco product so the bans against smoking do not apply to E-Cigg's. (In the U.S. it's a nicotine delivery system.) I love it and recomend it to anyone who smokes!

Actually they WERE designed to be a device to help quit smoking. Hon Lik the Chinese pharmacist came up with the invention after his father died of smoking related illness. Hon Lik was also a smoker who had struggled with quitting and thought it would be good to give the world a way to "stop smoking" that was easier and more effective than the products that were on the market. Hon Lik reasoned that if he could design a product that resembled smoking but was not smoking, people would use it and thus not be smoking - that is not be putting the harmfull burning smoke and harmful chemicals into their bodies.

In the U.S. they are not classed as a nicotine delivery system only a "Tobacco product" since the nicotine is extracted from tobacco. It is not sold as a quit smoking product in the USA because legally a federal court ruled it was a tobacco product and not a nicotine delivery device. Health proponents for the use of E-cigs do make the case that use of the e-cig is about Harm Reduction and that's what really matters.

For more info on Harm Reduction from Smoking in the USA see The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association casaa.org...

edit on 18-9-2011 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Thank you for so kindly correcting me. Apparently my "dyslexic recall" is at it's worst after a long sleepless night. In the immortal words of Willie Wonka... "Scratch that... Reverse it."

btw this has been an very educational thread. I did not know any of the history behind the E-Cig's... All I know is I like them very much. And now I know more than I did. Kudos!

The E-Cigs are not much better for you then normal cigs. You're still burning an oil/vapor into your lungs which is full of carcinogens. It's a big fraud..

No, the fact that you can walk into any store anywhere and buy cigarettes to legally pay to kill yourself so the government keeps getting its tax revenue is the big fraud.

I know exactly what's in my liquid that I make. I the only way I could tell you what is contained in cigarette smoke is if I went and looked it up. Inhaling nothing is obviously better but ecigs are on the order of magnitudes less harmful to you than inhaling smoke caused by combustion. If ecigs are harmful, so is cooking. Ever cook a lovely meal and inhale the wonderful smells from the steam coming off of it? Yeah, vapor. Same thing. That Glade Plug-in you have in your bathroom or that bottle of Fabreeze you spray around your home is worse for you than an ecig.

Oh, and as far as the carcinogens..well, yes, some samples of liquids that were tested found trace amounts of nitrosamines in amounts on par to those contained in the FDA approved patch or gum. To put it in perspective, the amount of nitrosamines contained in that crispy bacon you cooked last weekend is much higher.

Originally posted by libertytoall
The E-Cigs are not much better for you then normal cigs. You're still burning an oil/vapor into your lungs which is full of carcinogens. It's a big fraud..

There is 100% proven positive NO oil in any E-cig liquid. There are NO carcinogens in e-cig vapor. None, Nada, Zero, Zip.

There are currently known 70 cancer causing chemicals in tobacco cigarette smoke among the 4000 chemicals found in natural tobacco when it is burned. On top of that there are 599 added chemicals that are added by the tobacco companies and they use ammonia to make nicotine more addictive, it's like a freebase form of nicotine. (because nicotine in it's natural form is only mildly addictive- This is the form of nicotine e-cigs use.)

The smoke, tar, 70 cancer causing chemicals, the other 4000 chemicals and the 599 added chemicals all contribute to heart, lung disease, cancer and various other smoking related illness.

E-cigs do not have any of these things. Please get some education on a subject before you make such blanket statements. In that light, can you see how not putting all these things into your body is giving you a health benefit?

I gotta try these E-cigs, been wanting to quit for a while but 2 beers later i'm smoking again.
what are the health risks of E-cigs and please give me a source because if you just say smoke and vapour is bad then your as useful as a cat flap in an elephant encolsure.

I tried e-cigs this year and there are a lot of positive effects:

One can breathe better and thus sleep better.
The rooms are free from smoke and smell.
Even if you smoke a lot, your fingers and teeth won't get yellow.
Your keyboard is not covered with ashes.
Your armchair does not get burned when you drop the e-cig.
You don't have to throw it away, when the bus arrives, but simply put it in your pocket.
You can have a smoke after the dinner in the restaurant. I never was asked, what I was doing there. I guess, they thought it was a medical device against asthma or something like that.

The negative side was more about the technical problems, since my model used to stop working very early and it was a lot of sending the device back and forth between Spain and Germany.
One time I even had to appear at the customs office, because they were not sure, what this device was.

Finally I gave up and tried to stop smoking. I smoke less than before, but still I couldn't stop it. Maybe I will give the e-cig another try after this reminder. Though I would try another model then.

Originally posted by Mcupobob

EDIT: I would like to ask the E-Smokers in this thread about which is better, I just recently starting using it and I have a Modern Cartridge E-cig are the three piece ones better?

It depends on what you are looking for in an e-cig. You got yours from Modern Vapor? What model do you have?

Most of the cigarette size units have small batteries and the charge doesn't last too long. The cartridges used on that type of e-cig come pre-filled. depending on what type of 3 piece unit you look at you can get a larger battery that's rated at at least 750 mah and will last all day on a single charge. These consist of a battery, an atomizer and a cartridge. You can buy pre-filled e-cig juice for them or mix your own e-cig juice with liquid nicotine and flavorings to fill them with. I use this Do It Yourself method to help keep costs down cus I'm on a budget. There are many styles of atomizers you can use with this type of e-cig and they are all good, just depends on personal preference. Most e-cig users will start off with one kit or type of e-cig then try other types in time to find what they like best.

i suggest browsing through the Electronic Cigarette Forum to find info on all the different types of e-cigs out there. www.e-cigarette-forum.com...

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by libertytoall
The E-Cigs are not much better for you then normal cigs. You're still burning an oil/vapor into your lungs which is full of carcinogens. It's a big fraud..

It's a big fraud? You sound like a wacky conspiracy theorist who doesn't accept truth. Like Elenin ending the world next week.

There is 100% proven positive NO oil in any E-cig liquid. There are NO carcinogens in e-cig vapor. None, Nada, Zero, Zip.

Are you a salesman for this stuff? That would make sense for you to flat out lie.

"FDA NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release: July 22, 2009

Media Inquiries: Siobhan DeLancey, 301-796-4668, [email protected]
Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA

FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today announced that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples has found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze.

Electronic cigarettes, also called “e-cigarettes,” are battery-operated devices that generally contain cartridges filled with nicotine, flavor and other chemicals. The electronic cigarette turns nicotine, which is highly addictive, and other chemicals into a vapor that is inhaled by the user.

These products are marketed and sold to young people and are readily available online and in shopping malls. In addition, these products do not contain any health warnings comparable to FDA-approved nicotine replacement products or conventional cigarettes. They are also available in different flavors, such as chocolate and mint, which may appeal to young people.

Because these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, at this time the agency has no way of knowing, except for the limited testing it has performed, the levels of nicotine or the amounts or kinds of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user.

The FDA’s Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of electronic cigarettes. In one sample, the FDA’s analyses detected diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines. These tests indicate that these products contained detectable levels of known carcinogens and toxic chemicals to which users could potentially be exposed.

The FDA has been examining and detaining shipments of e-cigarettes at the border and the products it has examined thus far meet the definition of a combination drug-device product under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. The FDA has been challenged regarding its jurisdiction over certain e-cigarettes in a case currently pending in federal district court. The agency is also planning additional activities to address its concerns about these products."
www.fda.gov...

E-cigs do not have any of these things.

WRONG! They may contain less carcinogens but you can't sell it as if it's 100% free of carcinogens.

Please get some education on a subject before you make such blanket statements. In that light, can you see how not putting all these things into your body is giving you a health benefit?

I have been educated on the subject yet you fail to realize the dangers. Maybe you should get some education on the subject.

Yes, because the FDA is there to look out for our health and best interests.

"FDA NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release: July 22, 2009 Media Inquiries: Siobhan DeLancey, 301-796-4668, [email protected] Consumer Inquiries: 888-INFO-FDA FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today announced that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples has found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze.

One sample of 19 tested found “detectable” but not quantifiable levels of diethylene glycol. So little that the amounts are of no health concern.

Electronic cigarettes, also called “e-cigarettes,” are battery-operated devices that generally contain cartridges filled with nicotine, flavor and other chemicals. The electronic cigarette turns nicotine, which is highly addictive, and other chemicals into a vapor that is inhaled by the user.

Yes, true with a negative spin put on it. Tobacco cigarettes are more addictive and extremely deadly. The “other chemicals” are propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin.

These products are marketed and sold to young people and are readily available online and in shopping malls. In addition, these products do not contain any health warnings comparable to FDA-approved nicotine replacement products or conventional cigarettes. They are also available in different flavors, such as chocolate and mint, which may appeal to young people.

Find me where these products are sold to young people? One source? Tobacco cigarettes are everywhere and it’s much easier for a minor to steal smokes from their parents than to go out and buy a $150+ ecig kit from the mall. FDA approved NRTs are sold on the shelf, no child-proofing and you do not need ID to buy them. They contain the same nicotine. They also come in mint and fruit flavors. Alcohol is also sold in bright, attention-grabbing packaging in very tasty flavors.

Because these products have not been submitted to the FDA for evaluation or approval, at this time the agency has no way of knowing, except for the limited testing it has performed, the levels of nicotine or the amounts or kinds of other chemicals that the various brands of these products deliver to the user.

Vitamins are also not FDA approved. FDA approval only means that in control groups, the product tested works better than placebo more than 50% of the time and they know what the side effects are, good or bad. (See side effects for FDA approved Chantix.) There are plenty of tests that have been done. This FDA test is simply a negative spin put on something that they simply couldn’t find anything wrong with.

The FDA’s Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of electronic cigarettes. In one sample, the FDA’s analyses detected diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans, and in several other samples, the FDA analyses detected carcinogens, including nitrosamines. These tests indicate that these products contained detectable levels of known carcinogens and toxic chemicals to which users could potentially be exposed.

Nitrosamines far, far less than those found in bacon or sausage. The same levels as found in other FDA approved NRTs. Detectable, not quantifiable, levels of diethylene glycol in ONE sample tested. No health risk associated with this as the levels are simply far too low.

The FDA has been examining and detaining shipments of e-cigarettes at the border and the products it has examined thus far meet the definition of a combination drug-device product under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. The FDA has been challenged regarding its jurisdiction over certain e-cigarettes in a case currently pending in federal district court. The agency is also planning additional activities to address its concerns about these products." www.fda.gov...

That ruling has been overturned as a judge found they were NOT drug delivery devices but a tobacco product and have since been classified as such. Therefore, they cannot be regulated like a drug-delivery device, only as a tobacco product, like cigarettes which are LEGAL AND EVERYWHERE.

This is an old and really bad report. Basically, the FDA couldn't find anything wrong with them, failed to compare them to smoking tobacco, failed to compare them to their approved NRTs and, well, who knows why the FDA does what it does but my guess is they get a lot of money from pharmaceutical and/or tobacco lobbyists, so.... (didn't I read somewhere that this testing was actually paid for by a tobacco company? I could be wrong about that. I thought I read Philip Morris did but I have to go look that up.)

Originally posted by listerofsmeg
I gotta try these E-cigs, been wanting to quit for a while but 2 beers later i'm smoking again.
what are the health risks of E-cigs and please give me a source because if you just say smoke and vapour is bad then your as useful as a cat flap in an elephant encolsure.

Best place I can direct you to is the medical and health forums of the Electronic Cigarette Forum www.e-cigarette-forum.com... and CASAA , the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association casaa.org...

They have tons of info. and you can get the details and links to the studies from there to back up everything I am about to tell you but there is so much info out there on this it's better if you read it all for yourself.

Start here: www.e-cigarette-forum.com... - A list of symptoms when quitting tobacco and changing to an ecigarette

www.e-cigarette-forum.com... - Are Electronic Cigarettes Safe?

www.e-cigarette-forum.com... - Health and Medical issues Forum of ECF

In these pages you will find symptoms your body can have when quitting smoking as well as any side effects of using e-cigs and more in depth discussions about the ingredients in e-cigs.

In a nutshell some people can be sensitive to some ingredients and can get sore throats or a mild cold like symptoms. We do not know the long term effects for inhaling some chemicals used in some of the flavorings but doctors and scientists say that most risk is minimal, For everything else, all other ingredients we do have studies that show they are safe to inhale with as stated little or no side effects, Unless you are sensitive to some of these ingredients you wont have any more trouble with vaping than you did with smoking tobacco.

reply to post by libertytoall


I don't sell e-cigs, just a user. A happy to be smoke free and free of the tar, cancer causing agents and chemicals of tobacco smoke type of user. The paper you are looking at was part of a press release that did not tell the whole story of the true report. It was a jazzed up publication for public consumption. They found trace amounts that wouldn't harm a fly. You ingest much more dangerous chemicals every time you eat a processed food product. In these trace amounts the body is able to safely eradicate any potential harm.

" What did the FDA really say? The FDA announced that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples found "carcinogens and toxic chemicals such as diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze." Predictably, the public interpreted this to mean that there is immediate danger of contracting cancer from, or being poisoned by, electronic cigarettes. Many smokers formed the opinion that the FDA was encouraging them to stick with smoking tobacco.

Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, president of the American Council on Science and Health, called the FDA statement "distorted, incomplete, and misleading." She pointed out that traditional cigarettes are lethal because smokers inhale enormous amounts of "products of combustion", and it is the inhaled smoke that kills, "from cancers, cardiovascular disease and lung disease, and more."

Dr. Michael Siegel, professor at Boston University School of Health stated, "At the same time that the FDA made a big hullabaloo over the finding of traces of carcinogens in electronic cigarette cartridges, the FDA hid from the public the fact that it would be nearly impossible not to have detected these carcinogens in the cartridges because the nicotine is derived from tobacco and there are residual traces of carcinogens even in nicotine replacement products.""

Source: www.helium.com...

Read the links I gave the poster above. You will find links to studies showing that there are no risk from cancer causing agents in every day normal use of e-cigs. Do some real research and you will see why the FDA made those scare tactic claims.

Keep in mine no one is claiming that there will not ever be any possible side effects found with using e-cigs long term in the future, but we believe compared to smoking cigarettes they are very much safer. Doctors and scientists know what the ingredients are and except for some chemicals used in some of the flavorings, they have a lot of knowledge of how they effect the body, how the body deals with those substances and they can say that they believe that any long term effects found will be minimal at best.

reply to post by libertytoall

Is DG (Diethylene Glycol) considered toxic? The answer is yes. But what the FDA failed to mention is that the tested E-Cigarette cartridges had about 1/10 the DG that can be found in aspirin, and about 1/40 the amount found in your typical tobacco cigarette. It can also be found in a variety of consumable products on the market that we use daily. It's actually not an ingredient in anti-freeze. It's an ingredient in coolants. They mixed that up with PG (Propylene Glycol) which is actually put into anti-freeze in order to make the anti-freeze child-safe and/or pet-safe.

Not that it really matters much. But DG is actually not a typical ingredient you find in E-Cigarettes. It is typically used as a humectant for tobacco products; which would explain its presence in one out of the 18 E-cig cartridges tested. The presence of Nicotine typically means you will also find DG. If you were to test real cigarettes for this chemical, you would find it in %100 of the tested cigarettes.

You really going to trust the FDA? Besides the morality of allowing the Government telling us what we can and can not buy in our supposed free society, instead of allowing the people themselves research the topic and decided for themselves. Now you could have argued against this 20 years ago when information was slow and limited, but we now live in the Information age where consumers can see reviews of other costumers and various studies on the product before purchases with a simple google search. It takes only minutes to find out if you would like said product and if it is safe.

Now we step into the less ideological view of the FDA and into its fraud.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration, under sharp criticism for its drug safety behavior involving anti-inflammatory drugs, antidepressants, and the silencing of its own drug safety scientists, has been offered a new name today: the Fraud and Drug Administration.

The winning name was chosen from among hundreds of entries submitted by health consumers fed up with the FDA's apparent mission to protect the profits of drug companies. Other name ideas submitted by health consumers include:

The FDA has been caught countless times taking kickbacks and bribes from various corporations to prevent competition form competing products.

www.naturalnews.com...

www.lewrockwell.com...

A recent FDA report regarding so-called "e-cigarettes" has insinuated that ethylene glycol is a "carcinogen." The anti-smoking lobby, which has been growing to be increasingly shrill and annoying, has been making snide statements along the lines of, "well, now you are just killing yourself with anti-freeze." Although acute exposure to ethylene glycol can be poisonous, I would be impressed if you managed to give yourself acute ethylene glycol poisoning from smoking an electronic cigarette. Furthermore, ethylene glycol is not even a serious cancer suspect, much less a known carcinogen. If you are inhaling extremely large amounts of this stuff, some of its metabolites may accumulate in your kidneys; you would basically have to open up a container of anti-freeze and huff on it for hours every day.

The FDA did find trace amounts of some actual carcinogens in their samples, and this is probably due to imperfections in the processing techniques used by the companies that make them. I would like to know which brands in particular were found to have them in sufficient quantities to justify my giving a wrinkled #.

As usual, our federal government is embarrassing us in front of the world.

www.sciforums.com...

New Zealand has declared them safe also -

www.healthnz.co.nz...


EDIT: Also thanks jone for the link to the forum differently will stop pussy footing around and get a serious E-cig.

Originally posted by libertytoall
The E-Cigs are not much better for you then normal cigs. You're still burning an oil/vapor into your lungs which is full of carcinogens. It's a big fraud..

You sound like Michelle Bachmann -- some lady told me that her kid got this injection - and became mentally retarded - so it must be a fact..

Do you have proof of that statement -- any proof at all that would make me think that you might have a clue about what you are saying here??

My doctor highly recommended them too, when I told her about them. Then our Canadian goverment drug peddlers followed US suit banning a much needed thing. You can buy the whole system and the clear filters here, but not the various degrees of nicotine ones to take it down slowly.

Some people grow their own tobacco and make their own essential oils but its really dangerous, and as someone who quit smoking twice can tell you, selling cigarettes by the singletons or 4 would really help someone who finds it impossible to quit, but can get down to a really low level. The inhalers are no where near as good. The Government does not actually seem to encourage quitting smoking. For those who do not fair well with doing so, end up suffering long term depression instead, growing your own organic tobacco to make their behavior meaningless would be a better solution than to support the tobacco industry here.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


thanks man, i think i will try them, it's the best chance i see to quit smoking and live healthier.
lets hope they dont kill anyone in the next couple of decades.

Well this shows that the UK really seems to care for it`s people while the US`S FDA doesn`t care for it's people. Money is a evil thing.
I`ve used a e-cig and stopped smoking cigarettes for over a year now due to the E-Cig and making my own mods, atomizers and nicotine liquid. Saved a ton of money and much better health as well.

Here is a link to the largest E-cig posting forum. All the info you could want and help if not already posted.

ECF Forum