U.S. calls Palestinian goals counterproductive

Any effort from Palestinians to unilaterally declare independence at the United Nations is counterproductive to a two-state solution, Washington said.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said he will seek recognition of statehood at the United Nations this month despite warnings from the United States.
Washington said it will veto any request Palestinians make to the U.N. Security Council to be a member state.
If the request is vetoed, Palestinian officials say they will approach the General Assembly -- where they would need a majority vote for the state of Palestine to be upgraded from the status of observer to a non-member state. From there, the government could join U.N. bodies and conventions.

again the sad state of the U.S. dictatorship is becoming impossible to ignore.
all over the middle east our so called president wants to endorse freedom and democracy for the people. but when it comes to israel and their racist quarantining of the Palestinians, only the Palestinians are in the wrong and being counterproductive to a two0state solution.

how is seeking recognition of STATE-hood different from an two state solution which the US and israel are failing to provide.?

it seems the obama admin and their puppet masters only want freedom and democracy on only their terms. what a sad shameful country the US is becoming.

reply to post by -W1LL
It's worth noting that Abbas and PLO Officials are pointing to Obama's Speech in May of this year as a major factor in their deciding to push for the full statehood next week along 1967 borders. Whether someone likes or dislikes our President, it would seem the man needs some serious work on understanding the effect his words, as President, can have in real world events. It isn't a political game and it's not about HIM all the time, however much the egomaniac wishes it were. Real people may really start dying this month, in PART, because his administration saw a way to score political points months ago. It ought to be criminal.

The only thing counterproductive is the fact that our government is owned by Israeli interests. This has become pathetic, our house of cards is falling and we're the only buffoons that support Israel on this issue. If they go to war with turkey let them blow in the wind

reply to post by -W1LL


USA=Israel's female dog (no offense)

It's time for the USA to let Israel deal with their own problems. Get over it Israel, Palestine will be declaring statehood soon, and most the world is behind them. You can take your vetoes and shove them up your United Nations.

reply to post by -W1LL


Just let the Palestinains have their state. The Israelis gave up the area when they moved out 2000 years ago. Isnt that generally a rule of thumb? If your people abandon an area, then squatters can move in and your lands become theirs. Besides, no one truly owns the dirt they stand on, the caesars in Rome found that out long time ago.

I think the reason Israel is so afraid of Palstine getting their own state is because they will become their own mini country which will give them the right to openly commit to war with Israel when Israel starts dropping rockets on palestinians throwing rocks at armored Israeli vehicles and bulldozers coming to knock their homes down.

I think that the issue is not so much that the Palestinians want their own separate state, but that, according to their own "charter", they want their own state to be where Israel is now (and Israel eliminated). That's what is counterproductive in getting recognized.

On the one hand, if the Palestinians ever get territory that they actually spend money on developing and acknowledging as their own, then they would no longer have any justification on their calls for Israel to allow Palestinians to re-occcupy the land that Israel now occupies. Think of how the US Native Americans were given land as their own reservations which they now exert self-governance to some extent even though in some cases the land they now occupy are not what they originally occupied.

Also, if the Palestinians were granted land they willingly accepted and occupied and developed, then the US would not have as much reason to beat up on Israel about issues like restraining from retaliation when they get bombed and shelled from neighboring nations, since there would no longer be the refugee issue.

The Palestinians should not be arguing about having split territories. It would seem that they could solve it rather easily as happened with Bangladesh and Pakistan becoming separate nations. The separate parts don't all have to have the name "Palestine". Jordan doesn't.

That's true op, I never thought of that.

We can enforce a no fly zone, bomb the crap out of Libya, and demand Assad and Mubarak step down, but totally push the Palestinians to the ground because they want to achieve some kind of status in the world?

Or how about America turning a blind eye to the human rights violations being committed at this very hour in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia?

Difficult for me to accept you guys are failing to understand how this is unproductive. For once I really hope the majority of you are either trolling or twisting the truth on purpose.. I can't honestly believe none of you have thought about this issue throughly only to end up with the conclusion that "USA IS A HYPOCRITE AND IT HATES ARABS THIS IS WHY THEY DONT WANT PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD"...

I have said this many times in this board and I will say it again (and again, and again, and again).

Declaring statehood while under the complete iron fist control of Hamas is counterproductive, yes. People who are led by a terror organization which states it's main purpose is to drive the Jews out of Israel and re-conquer Jerusalem as a whole, will not get it's people anywhere, especially if it receives the status of an official governing factor or a government.

Furthermore, any rocket attack, even the smallest one, by the Palestinians under official statehood will be seen as an act of war committed by a sovereign and independent nation. That alone would lead to a major war and casualties on a scale never seen before, and will be justified by the global powers.
"With great power comes great responsibility", yes? Well, they won't receive any 'great powers' with this statehood bid, but they will most certainly be held responsible for any attack by even the smallest armed militia. Seeing as there is no real power to stop Hamas from doing whatever they want to, and seeing even Hamas itself cannot always stop the tiny militias from launching rockets at Israel, this rushed declaration of statehood will simply dig the Palestinians a grave.

I say this:
1. Get rid of Hamas SOMEHOW.
2. Create a modernized government.
3. Go get your statehood.

Is it really that illogical?

reply to post by IsraeliGuy

For once I really hope the majority of you are either trolling or twisting the truth on purpose..

Imagine you accusing people of trolling.

I think we've heard the BS "It's all the fault of Hamas" enough by now..

As I asked you AGES ago, what was the excuse before Hamas??
There has ALWAYS been an excuse to oppress Palestine.
Hamas is merely the current in a long line..

In the end it is about the dignity and freedom of the "Palestinian Peoples" ....many have been resettled in the UK,USA,Australia(ie Sydney)....and many other nations.

The remainder stuck in squalid camps have been used as pawns in the Arab v Israel situation.

How many kids are going to be deprived a peaceful life whilst hamas squabbles over land?

Lets allow the remaining millions of Palestinians resettle amongst free nations, this is justice.

The Israelis will never share her borders with Arabs en mass by choice.

So why should the Palestinian poor and occupied be forced to endure decades of poverty?

Let them migrate , we owe them that.

They may lose their home, but many migrate from all over the world, new beginnings are possible.

In todays multicultural world they can change their adopted new homelands suburbs into a mini palestine like they have in South Western Sydney anyway.

Who knows a new Palestine state could be created in Tasmania , or the Falklands for example, stranger things have occurred.
Prior to the 1948 creation of Israel , parts of the world such as parts of Australia, and Africa were selected as possible new Israel sites.
Similarly perhaps we could have a new 'Palestine" to allow dignity and freedom to the millions of Dispara Arabs ?

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Difficult for me to accept you guys are failing to understand how this is unproductive. For once I really hope the majority of you are either trolling or twisting the truth on purpose.. I can't honestly believe none of you have thought about this issue throughly only to end up with the conclusion that "USA IS A HYPOCRITE AND IT HATES ARABS THIS IS WHY THEY DONT WANT PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD"...

I have said this many times in this board and I will say it again (and again, and again, and again).

Declaring statehood while under the complete iron fist control of Hamas is counterproductive, yes. People who are led by a terror organization which states it's main purpose is to drive the Jews out of Israel and re-conquer Jerusalem as a whole, will not get it's people anywhere, especially if it receives the status of an official governing factor or a government.

Furthermore, any rocket attack, even the smallest one, by the Palestinians under official statehood will be seen as an act of war committed by a sovereign and independent nation. That alone would lead to a major war and casualties on a scale never seen before, and will be justified by the global powers.
"With great power comes great responsibility", yes? Well, they won't receive any 'great powers' with this statehood bid, but they will most certainly be held responsible for any attack by even the smallest armed militia. Seeing as there is no real power to stop Hamas from doing whatever they want to, and seeing even Hamas itself cannot always stop the tiny militias from launching rockets at Israel, this rushed declaration of statehood will simply dig the Palestinians a grave.

I say this:
1. Get rid of Hamas SOMEHOW.
2. Create a modernized government.
3. Go get your statehood.

Is it really that illogical?

edit on 16-9-2011 by IsraeliGuy because: (no reason given)

Actually, Gaza getting its own statehood is exactly what the palestinians need. Once it gains statehood, it gives NATO a reason to kick Hamas out of Gaza and free the country from terrorist control. That is EXACTLY what Gaza needs.

This is so sickening...honestly.

One who understands and has knowledge of this situation can see how morally repulsive this mockery of Israel is.

I understand that Palestinians have sufferred, and i feel bad for them. However, who locked them in those camps? Who ransomed them to gain world sympathy in the cause of a "Palestinian People"???

Before 1967, the world was with ISRAEL! How insane is that?

The enemies Israel fought with in that time period were known simple as "Arab Armies". There was no palestinian, or jordanian people. There was simply the nascent state of Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudia Arabia, Lebanon and Egypt. All united in religion, language and ambition. The world saw this for what it was. The Jews had just come in from Europe, after the horrors of the holocaust, and less then 3 years later, the Arabs attacked them. They were seen for the instigators and monsters that they were for doing that.

Now, fast forward a few decades. The Arab strategists show how clever they really are. They create a "palestinian" people, put them through real trials and sufferring by refusing to take them into neighboring Arab countries and compel leadership within this "arab palestinian" population, to take up the cause of Palestinian statehood. Enter Yasser Arafat, PLO, Fatah, Hamas etc.

And now, after sufficiently mocking the scenario the Jews had gone through earlier on, they feel the energies "are right", for people to accept and support Palestinian statehood, in that incredibly strategic area known as "the westbank" aka, Judea and Samaria, which is mountainous compared to Israels economic heartland in Jaffa-Tel Aviv.

Its mockery. Our concept of justice is perverted, and there is simply no such thing as justice in this culture. Justice serves Necessity, and Neccessity is determined by the powers that be. The PTB can care less about morality, and justice, objectively , which is why they hash up little plots like this, with the Arabs. Hence why the Islamists and Leftists get along so well. Liberals support Palestinian statehood, but would probably not want to live there, given the Islamic culture and all.

In the end. The Jews have been used and abused throughout history.

They have had their homeland barred off from them by the ruling political power. Never again would they be alowed to return, the powers said. Jews continued to pray 3 times a day to this land, hoping and begging God to bring on their 'redemption' from exile; from not living and serving God in the land of Israel.

How can anyone compare with this? Its unique.

So let the Arabs be fair, move aside and take land elsewhere. Israel proper, with Judea and Samaria is still a very tiny lot of land, and yet you seek to take more! and when you have the hill country, you'll be sure to take the rest!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Hamas was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Hamas was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

And? That means anything? A terrorist is a terrorist, theyre roaches that need to be exterminated, if they condone terrorist attacks and carry them out then they are terrorist. Does detonating a bomb amoung a crowd of people shopping at a local market for the ingredients to their evening meals seem like something a real democratic nation would do? No, its the action of a theocracy hell bent on killing people who don't believe what they do.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


And they were democratically elected.

Have you still now figured out the logic?

The people of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents the essential will and desire of the people of Gaza.

You dont fix situations by giving into them first, and then sending UN troops. Thats idiocy.

in anycase, no Arab party can be propitiated. This is going to lead to war. Unfortunately, the only forseeable way out.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Hamas was DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

Yeah because Fatah are a bunch of corrupt people, sold out to Israel and the US.

Not a big surprise Palestinians, after being ruled by corrupt scum wanted change.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

And they were democratically elected.

Have you still now figured out the logic?

The people of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents the essential will and desire of the people of Gaza.

You dont fix situations by giving into them first, and then sending UN troops. Thats idiocy.

in anycase, no Arab party can be propitiated. This is going to lead to war. Unfortunately, the only forseeable way out.

Yep, war solves everything. You call someone your enemy so you can justify taking their sh*t. Killing people always solves the issues though right?

And people wonder why the Lord has to return to keep mankind from destroying itself. Humanity will never learn, we can't get passed the whole "i want somoene else's sh*t so i'll kill him and take it" mentality.

reply to post by backinblack


Because everything before Hamas was the same fanatical religious Muslim nutcases that rule the Middle Eastern countries and control the Muslim masses. Like I said in my pervious post.

Instead of defending your people blindly, why don't you act like moderate Muslims and judge the atrocities and the backwards mentality Muslim countries are facing not only in Gaza but every single country ruled by Muslim dictators or Muslim regimes.

And Instead of wasting your time here you should be on the streets with the moderate voices of your religion.

How as a Muslim it does not bother you that in most Muslim countries women can be stoned to death for adultery is beyond me. This victim mentally of yours and your fellow Muslims will be your downfall.

The world is Fed Up of Islam

reply to post by dontreally

And they were democratically elected. Have you still now figured out the logic?

In case you forgot...the Israelis voted in their government too. If you look up the definition of terrorist in the dictionary, it fits the description of the current Israeli government. I am not defending Hamas. I am just showing how twisted your "logic" is.

Terrorism

ter·ror·ism    [ter-uh-riz-uhm] noun

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Sound familiar? Hypocrite much? Current day Israel ^

reply to post by -W1LL

Any effort from Palestinians to unilaterally declare independence at the United Nations is counterproductive to a two-state solution, Washington said.

Oh Really? But Washington had no problems when kosovo declared independence? America picked the wrong side in kosovo.