Question for Creationists

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
reply to post by syrinx high priest

 

Actually there are NO records of Jesus EVER having existed even as a regular man. HE NEVER EXISTED! The entire person is made up. Fictional. Imaginary. Non existent. As in never was never has been never were didn't happen.

Research it for yourself. Do niot take my word for it. Stop believing some nice friendly dude dressed in pretty garments standing up in front of a room on a raised platform behind a podium chanting, singing songs trying to bribe you with pot luck dinners. Yes it is hard to resist that type of convincing and temptation but do the hard dirty work. Read about it for yourself. Check the sources. The truth is out there if you dare to seek the very hard difficult answers.

there are at least 5 records including greco-roman sources. the issue, as with all records thousands of years old, is if you give them credibility. some do, some do not. what kind of records would you expect to survive thousands of years ? a laminated drivers license ?

A driver's license? It's not like he flew a plane into a building which subsequently collapsed. Why would we find a driver's license?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-) I think there is no doubt that there was a man named Jesus.

Check out "The Case for Christ".

www.leestrobel.com...

reply to post by habfan1968


What about them do you want me to explain?

reply to post by syrinx high priest


So a human being is walking on top of the water, yet not one person writes about it as the events happen?

A human being is walking around shooting pure healing magic out of his hands miraculous healing people directly in front of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people and not ONE of them not ONE OF THEM writes about it? Surely some of them were literate and could write?

NONE of the priests that supposedly had their temples roused by some madman angry about money changing wrote about it happening? NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM? NONE OF THEM WROTE ABOUT IT?

NOT ONE OF THEM?!?!?!?!? This doesn't bother you in the least?

In John 4:46-54 Jesus heals AN OFFICIALS CHILD when he was in Cana and the child was in Capernaum he cast a RANGED HEALING spell and the official, his family, the royalty he worked for, the people who witnessed it, NONE OF THEM WROTE ABOUT IT? NOT A WORD WAS WRITTEN ABOUT IT? Strange. Very strange.

Mark 1:21-28, Luke 4:33-37 "They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an impure spirit cried out, "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are - the Holy One of God!"

"Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" The impure spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.

The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching - and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him." NEWS ABOUT HIM SPREAD QUICKLY OVER THE WHOLE REGION OF GALILEE"

THE WHOLE DARN REGION NEWS SPREAD? Yet not ONE SINGLE PERSON wrote about this important news? Interesting.

- Luke 5:18-26 Some men came carrying a paralyzed man on a mat and tried to take him into the house to lay him before Jesus. When they could not find a way to do this because of THE CROWD, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE CROWD, right in front of Jesus.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Jesus knew what they were thinking and asked, "Why are you thinking these things in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." Immediately he stood up in front of them, took what he had been lying on and went home praising God. EVERYONE was amazed and gave praise to God. They were filled with awe and said, "We have seen remarkable things today."

A HUGE CRIWD of people sees this. NOT ONE OF THEM WRITES ONE SINGLE WORD OF IT HAPPENING. NO ONE. NO ONE WRITES ANYTHING ABOUT IT. ????? Ok then moving on to the next event that no one wrote about.

In -Luke 22:45-54 Jesus Actually makes a mans ear grow back RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HUGE CROWD! REGROWING LIMBS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT IN A LARGE CROWD! No one writes one single word (yet again) about this happening? NOT ONE WORD WRITTEN ABOUT REGROWING EARS? Can you seriously buy that?

Luke 17:11-19 Jesus AOE Cleanse/Remove disease from a group of lepers in front of a group of people. The people then go and show the priests. Guess how much was written about this event? I bet you already know the answer to that though don't you?

Luke 14:1-6 Jesus heals a PROMINENT religious man belonging to the religion controlling Israel at the time. Book written about it? NOPE. Short story about the event? NOPE. Couple lines of print? NAH. Short scribble? Not even. Nothing, absolutely nothing written about all of this stuff and MANY MANY more events that I have not even started to touch.

ALL of this stuff and not one single word written about it? If you buy that I have a bridge for sale with your name on it.

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl


I notice that you've suggested some videos, did you also take in the one suggested to you?
To make ANY headway into a conversation like this, you have to give the other word a glance too.

I was afraid to watch the zeitgeist films, as I thought they would sway what little faith I had, into having none. Then becoming lost. I was wrong.

I realized that it opened my mind of something more. Not blind faith in the bible, and way of Christianity, but that we indeed are a part of something, more extraordinary. Helped me evolve my existing belief's into something more entirely. What, I can't explain. But I'm quite a bit more fulfilled with what and who I am.

reply to post by Demoncreeper


Of course he didnt watch. Blind Believers wont believe when their Religion has been Dis-proven for the umpteenth time.

Originally posted by Chrysalis
reply to post by Zeer0

 

Considering religion says "do not kill"
and the fact that people are always killing others in the name of religion.

This is a verifiable, repeatable fact that can easily be checked.

With a scientific mind, I can say that its BS.

Yeah... if you actually had somewhat of a fundamental knowledge of what the Bible says, you would know it was prophesied that people would do just that:

John 16:2-3(KJV)

2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

reply to post by Zeer0

Of course he didnt watch. Blind Believers wont believe when their Religion has been Dis-proven for the umpteenth time.

You do know that the Zeitgeist has been thoroughly debunked right?

www.abovetopsecret.com

www.abovetopsecret.com

Peace

But now some conservative scholars are saying publicly that they can no longer believe the Genesis account. Asked how likely it is that we all descended from Adam and Eve, Dennis Venema, a biologist at Trinity Western University, replies: "That would be against all the genomic evidence that we've assembled over the last 20 years, so not likely at all."
npr : Evangelicals Question The Existence Of Adam And Eve

The whole edifice is crumbling down.

reply to post by Seed76


Then why do the videos have so little views and half the people dislike it?

It is how you see and think that makes the bible a conspiracy too those that have not been enlightened with the knowledge of why's and how's ...

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl

 

I'll watch it as soon as you watch this.

You have to be careful with movies like that which appear to be full of facts. Satan is good at tricking people who do not desire to know God's truth. I don't know where the Zeitgeist makers got their information from, but nowhere was it ever written that Jesus born on Dec. 25th. In fact, there are facts in the Bible that point to the fact that the opposite is true. One example is below:

Luke 2:8(KJV)
8And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

The flocks of sheep were only allowed to graze during the warmer months. When the weather cooled down, they were then moved into their pens to be protected from the cold.

reply to post by jeramie


Then what are we celebrating Christmas for?

Prove that Satan is real. Sounds like Fairy Tales to me.

this may not show that religion or bible is construed as factual in how the world operates, though there are many signs which science cannot also prove as answer.

for this world surely holds supernatural powers mixed within the reality of the physical, powers that can take hold, becoming as one within and adding to the mysteries that gods or spirits may dwell on earth. a force or power which does change lives and is omnipresent in those who are succeptable of such takeovers in body, mind or spirit.

the bible being one source for the acclaimation of these presences or spirits and it's reasons of why they are brought forth into existance within this earthly relm.

can science provide answers for these spiritual happenstances,

reply to post by jeramie

You have to be careful with movies like that which appear to be full of facts. Satan is good at tricking people who do not desire to know God's truth. I don't know where the Zeitgeist makers got their information from, but nowhere was it ever written that Jesus born on Dec. 25th.

this is true. the dec 25 date corresponds to the Saturnalia festivals and the winter solstice, which were celebrated by romans and druids, who were into astro-theology.

the reason that dec 25 is widely believed to be the birth date of christ is because in order to get the druids to convert to christianity, they had to keep some druidic traditions. in this way, the druids felt as if they weren't really abandoning their culture, they were merely "updating" it.

we see a lot of other interesting symbolism in the bible when it comes to the birth of jesus. the significance of the holy star that guides the 3 magi, who bring jesus 3 gifts: gold, frankincense and myrrh. these gifts have a deeper meaning:

gold signifying holiness or kingship
frankincense signifying priest-ship
and myrrh signifying death.

jesus was to be the "king of kings", he was to be a priest who "preached the word of the lord", and he was to "die for humanity's sins"

of course the guiding star also has connections to astro-theology, as the star of Bethlehem is widely believed to be a comet, which in itself has tons of symbolic interpretations.

All Christians think Science is great when their lives are improved by ......

Cars
Trains
Washing Machines
Tumble Driers
refridgerators
Airplanes
Electric Shavers
Hi Fi's
Electric cookers
Trucks
Bridges
Sky Scrapers
Computers (without which u wouldnt even be on here talking)
printers
Cameras
Medicines
internet
Plastics
Surgical instruments
Huge Tunnels
Underground car parks
Shopping Malls
Defibulators
Ships
Submarines
Phones
Salilites
Space stations
Lights
Helicopters
Veteranarians
Doctors
Explosives
Dishwashers
Ipods
Ipads
Ambulances
Fire Engines
DVDs
CDs
Lawnmowers
Space Travel
and
on
and
on ............

This is your evidence Science works..
But science that has brought you all this doesnt ask much in return... only facts and evidence to back up your cliams... where is your evidence God exists? there is none.Creationists are hypocrits.

Science has noting to prove, What has religion got to prove? everything because you have no evidence.

The only thing that Religion has done that i can see is create brainwashed stooges ,who come on here day after day and tell people that they are right and science is wrong,without any evidence what so ever to back up their claims,only some book thats clearly not written by a "God" .

reply to post by auraelium


Really good point. Best thing that has been said in this entire thread.

I hear a lot of back and forth from those of you who have totally closed minds about creationism.

I want you to know that I have a questioning mind....which is why I am on ATS, actually. Just so you will know that I am not a mindless moron, following my Church without questioning, I'd like to disclose that I am a member of Mensa, and I do not believe ANYTHING without questioning it. I read, and read, and read some more.

I really do wish you would watch "The Case for Christ" which I posted earlier. It makes a strong case for intelligent design. Very strong.

No, I didn't watch the video someone put up as a rebuttal (it isn't actually a direct rebuttal of MY video, just a rebuttal of Christianity.) Here's why:

From the title, I gather it is about how many Christian traditions are descended from Pagan traditions. I don't need to watch that video...I've explored that evidence before. I DO agree that many Christian traditions came from Pagan traditions. Guess what...many Christian traditions are NOT BIBLICAL. Celebrating Christmas on Dec. 25th....NOT BIBLICAL! Yes, I agree the date was chosen to pull in Pagans, based upon the significance of Dec. 25th to them. There's more where that one came from, but I'm not going into all of that now. When you leave out all of the Christian traditions, and unfortunate things done in the name of Christianity over the centuries, and JUST GET DOWN TO THE BIBLE, you get a very different picture of Christianity. I'm the first to admit that many examples of the way Christianity has been practiced is shameful. And that part ISN'T BIBLICAL.

I have examined the evidence. Based on what I have explored, I believe in Creationism, or intelligent design. I am not 100% convinced that Christianity is the ONLY path to God or salvation, or that all other religions are going to Hell. I also don't think that your religious state at your moment of death is final. I believe that God will give you another chance to go "into the light", and you can be saved at that moment, even after death. I consider myself to be a Christian, because even though my beliefs don't fall in line 100% with all of the Christian teachings, (even the disciple Thomas was called "Doubting Thomas" by Jesus)... I believe that perfection in faith is not required.

Please, have more of an open mind, and stop thinking all Christians are morons with ridiculous beliefs. YES, there are a lot of ridiculous ideas put forth by Christians. The Earth being 6,000 years old is one of them, in my opinion. However, please don't judge the truth of Christianity by mistaken ideas or hypocritical Christians. We are all human, and make mistakes. We can NOT be perfect, as hard as we try. Don't judge based upon imperfections.

Originally posted by auraelium
All Christians think Science is great when their lives are improved by ......

Cars
Trains
Washing Machines
Tumble Driers
refridgerators
Airplanes
Electric Shavers
Hi Fi's
Electric cookers
Trucks
Bridges
Sky Scrapers
Computers (without which u wouldnt even be on here talking)
printers
Cameras
Medicines
internet
Plastics
Surgical instruments
Huge Tunnels
Underground car parks
Shopping Malls
Defibulators
Ships
Submarines
Phones
Salilites
Space stations
Lights
Helicopters
Veteranarians
Doctors
Explosives
Dishwashers
Ipods
Ipads
Ambulances
Fire Engines
DVDs
CDs
Lawnmowers
Space Travel
and
on
and
on ............

This is your evidence Science works..
But science that has brought you all this doesnt ask much in return... only facts and evidence to back up your cliams... where is your evidence God exists? there is none.Creationists are hypocrits.

Science has noting to prove, What has religion got to prove? everything because you have no evidence.

The only thing that Religion has done that i can see is create brainwashed stooges ,who come on here day after day and tell people that they are right and science is wrong,without any evidence what so ever to back up their claims,only some book thats clearly not written by a "God" .

edit on 14-9-2011 by auraelium because: (no reason given)

No. Wrong.

I am married to a scientist. My husband has a PhD, and teaches Chemistry. He is published in many prestigious journals, and has done some impressive research in the area of antiviral compounds.

Christians are NOT Anti-Science. You are OVER GENERALIZING.

Science exists that supports intelligent design. Have you looked for it?

The evidence is not in the Bible. It is within us.

Check out "Dissent from Darwin". www.dissentfromdarwin.org...
Here is a list (20 pages long) of top scientists who are "skeptical" about evolution. www.discovery.org...

Please start there, and then tell me how scientists ALL think there is no evidence for Creationism.

Then, WATCH THE CASE FOR CREATION!!! :-)

also........

Should we believe in Vampyres exist because we read Dracula?
Should we belive Gandalf exists because we read Lord of the Rings?
Should we believe Voldemort exists because we read Harry Hotter?
Should we believe we believe Tommy Nockers exist because we read Stephen King?
Should we believe Fairys exist because we read Eoin Colfer?

I would think not...
So why should we believe God exists when we read the bible?

Originally posted by auraelium
also........

Should we believe in Vampyres exist because we read Dracula?
Should we belive Gandalf exists because we read Lord of the Rings?
Should we believe Voldemort exists because we read Harry Hotter?
Should we believe we believe Tommy Nockers exist because we read Stephen King?
Should we believe Fairys exist because we read Eoin Colfer?

I would think not...
So why should we believe God exists when we read the bible?

Do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just curious.

And, I want to add, that the reason I believe in God is NOT because I have read the Bible. It's because to me, only Intelligent Design makes sense, based upon the mathematical elegance and precision of the Earth and Universe. It's because of the "code" present in DNA. That all happened accidentally??? To me....believing that all of that is accidental....now THAT'S faith!!!