Palestine Is Still The Issue

Hi everyone, I would first like to plug the blog of a friend of mine that has given up her summer, unlike most spoiled graduates, to teach children in Palestine. I have been speaking to her as much as I can and what I have found out really just confirms my view on the disgraceful treatment of the Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis.

palestinediaries.blogspot.com...

Holly has told me that even before the trip members of the charity she was travelling with had their facebooks hacked and when they arrived in Tel Aviv a number of them where detained for "Suspect Comments" regarding jewish policy and practice.

At the west bank she had told me of Jewish soldiers stripping Palestinian women at checkpoints and laughing as they did so, some of the women being over 60 and one even saying she would prefer death to such disgrace in the streets. Another female volunteer when crossing into Israel wearing jewellery the children had made for her had the jewellery destroyed in front of her and was subjected to full and forceful cavity searches that verged close to rape. After which she was called a disgrace by the Jewish female soldier for helping the scum.

I am not even going to go into the well know mistreatment of the Palestinians or the current issues with Turkey but I will say this, if you where denied basic amenities on your own land, if you where mistreated, beaten and had your homes destroyed what would you do.

I my opinion we all need to put pressure on our politicians to act against this oppressive and war mongering state, Israel will not be happy until it leads the world into war. With the drums starting to beat from Turkey, diplomacy is needed and economic sanctions should be put in place, along with a ban on arms sales, to show Nethanyahoo that we as a western people will no longer cow tow to their anti semite, zionistic bull#. We can see what they are doing and how there are antagonising their neighbours. It needs to stop, at all costs. Rather Israel destroyed that the rest of us

wow, pretty harsh stuff, eh?


sounds almost unbelievable!

so much so that it could be propaganda?

reply to post by fooks


Propaganda seen first hand by someone I trust, who I may add, like me is a Christian so what`s your answer to that ???

reply to post by On the level


I congratulate you for posting this. I find horrendous news of atrocities in that region but don't report it because the mainstream won't touch it, and no one will take your thread seriously if you use a blog or non mainstream website.

It's like you're damned if you do damned if you don't. These things are happening daily over there and since the "real news" won't report it, people need to do it in alternative ways.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


To add validity to the story I know of family and friends who have been there and seen the exact same type of things. Of course all you have to go by is my word, and I am some random dude on the net.

Bulldozing of homes, degrading checkpoints that may include some of the things mentioned in the OP and more, blatant racism against the Arabs by many of the Settlers happens on a daily.

In defense of the Israeli people, there are a large majority who do not support the mistreatment of the Arabs. They are just everyday people living their lives, who want a better life. They are protesting for change too,

Sadly, the guilty by association factor comes in. The Israelis voted in the current government who does these crimes, Gazans voted in Hamas, North Americans elect their corrupt leaders as well. We are all guilty by complicity when we get to the bottom of it. Until the citizens find a way to unite, this will never end.

LOL sorry for the rant.

Originally posted by On the level
I am not even going to go into the well know mistreatment of the Palestinians or the current issues with Turkey but I will say this, if you where denied basic amenities on your own land, if you where mistreated, beaten and had your homes destroyed what would you do.

I my opinion we all need to put pressure on our politicians to act against this oppressive and war mongering state, Israel will not be happy until it leads the world into war. With the drums starting to beat from Turkey, diplomacy is needed and economic sanctions should be put in place, along with a ban on arms sales, to show Nethanyahoo that we as a western people will no longer cow tow to their anti semite, zionistic bull#. We can see what they are doing and how there are antagonising their neighbours. It needs to stop, at all costs. Rather Israel destroyed that the rest of us

Yeah, good point, because the "Palestineans" never do anything wrong. They wouldn't fire rockets, or have weird versions of Sesame Street that encourage and glorify suicide bombings, or anything like that. I find it interesting that Israel is the one "antagonizing their neighbours". How, exactly? Ah, right. By existing.

Fact is, there is wrongdoing on both sides. What you're presenting here is a one-sided whitewash that vindicates all "Palestinean" actions (let me guess, they fire rockets because they're "oppressed" and "occupied"?) and vilifies Israel. This simplistic view fails to take so much into account.

Now, for my part...

I support Israel's right to the land currently given to "the Palestaineans". I do not believe that a "Palestinean people" exists, nor do I believe it has ever existed. Those we call Palestineans are Jordanian. Nothing more, nothing less. They were refused right of return to Jordan itself, and have remained in Israel. Does that give Israel the right to "occupy" that land? Yes. Yes it does. Does it give them the right to oppress the Palestineans? No it doesn't. I love Biblical Israel. I support their right to the land of Israel, and support their right to exist. Does that mean that the government and its actions are beyond reproach? No. Not so much, no.

...still, I don't see any other independent, democratic states around the world showing restraint amidst rocket fire from across a border... do you?


edit: it's a little tricky to live in peace with people who want to kill you. Point in case:

the Hamas Charter "calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.
en.wikipedia.org...

The PLO Charter declares the State of Israel "null and void" and calls for its destruction... stating that "Commando action constitutes the nucleus of the Palestinian popular liberation war. This requires its escalation, comprehensiveness, and the mobilization of all the Palestinian popular and educational efforts and their organization and involvement in the armed Palestinian revolution. It also requires the achieving of unity for the national ('wanted) struggle among the different groupings of the Palestinian people, and between the Palestinian people and the Arab masses, so as to secure the continuation of the revolution, its escalation, and victory."
en.wikipedia.org...


how can you possibly negotiate peace with a people who only wish your destruction?

reply to post by Awen24

...still, I don't see any other independent, democratic states around the world showing restraint amidst rocket fire from across a border... do you?

LOL believe it or not, the USA does, at least on their southern border.

Border Violence Threatens Americans

The killings last month in the Mexican border town of Ciudad Juarez of two U.S. citizens, including an employee at the city's U.S. Consulate, along with the slaying of an Arizona rancher, have fueled concerns among U.S. officials that Americans are becoming fair game for Mexican drug gangs seeking control of smuggling routes into the United States. For more than two years, U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials have been warning that the dramatic rise in violence along the southwestern border could eventually target U.S. citizens and spread into this country. The violence posed what the officials called a "serious threat" to law enforcement officers, first responders and residents along the 1,951-mile border.

There is next to no response to this situation.

The US suffers fare more violence at the hands of the Mexican drug cartels compared to the damage suffered to Israelis by Palestinian "rockets". Don't tell me about them using kids as suicide bombers, that propaganda doesn't fly anymore. Even USA uses restraint on it's neighbors, and USA is not scared to blow stuff up.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The US suffers fare more violence at the hands of the Mexican drug cartels compared to the damage suffered to Israelis by Palestinian "rockets". Don't tell me about them using kids as suicide bombers, that propaganda doesn't fly anymore. Even USA uses restraint on it's neighbors, and USA is not scared to blow stuff up.

...this isn't a valid comparison. You just compared drug cartels, who are neither associated with the state, nor representative of Mexico and her politics, to a people seeking independent Statehood at the UN in the upcoming days. Not the same thing.

The US may resent the violence across her borders from drug cartels, but going to war against Mexico would be a violation of a sovereign state who neither sanction nor approve of that violence.

Hamas and Fatah, on the other hand, have not only sanctioned the violence, but commit it themselves... while their respective charters both call for the obliteration of and continued violence against the State of Israel.

How amusing, comparing a barrage of rockets that has been going on for ten years if not more, to violence in the Mexico boarder that COULD potentially harm Americans yet it hasn't wrecked any havoc amidst it's citizens.
From your own link:
"could eventually target U.S. citizens and spread into this country"

Has it happened so far? How many attacks had occurred on US soil due to this thread? Has any rockets been fired at any US city? Thought so.

Cheap ignoring of facts by your part. Also, you don't buy the kid suicide bomber "propaganda"? Well try not buying this.

Oh year right, your excuse is now going to be "Israelies used their evil mind controlling devices and got him to kill himself in order to lie to the world". Right?

reply to post by Awen24


As per my post if England for example started to steal Scotland's resources, apart from the oil which is gone , and treated us like animals, bombing hospitals with white phosphorus and generally trying to destroy our culture then aye, I would do what I could to prevent them from doing so. Riddle me this how many Palestinians have been killed versus Israelis during this ongoing ethnic cleansing. Have a look at this site ifamericansknew.org... 124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. Makes for some uncomfortable bedtime reading. Did you also know that Christians live peacefully in Palestine, unlike in Israel where orthodox jews regularly attack no Jewish visitors.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Ask why they feel the need to blow themselves up, I never defend Muslims, especially their actions in America and Britain however the Palestinians have been destroyed by state sponsored terrorism. Your government disgusts me.

Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

Ask why they feel the need to blow themselves up, I never defend Muslims, especially their actions in America and Britain however the Palestinians have been destroyed by state sponsored terrorism. Your government disgusts me.

Specifically, this kid was payed to do so, so don't give me the "ask why they feel the need!!!" PC crap.

You ask yourself what did the terrorist that payed this kid 100 Shekels (about 30$) to kill himself and others, have felt when sending him to die.

My government will continue to disgust you until these pathetic excuse for human beings (terrorists, not arabs) will stop digging their own grave.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy

From your own link: "could eventually target U.S. citizens and spread into this country"

Yes that is one link. I am not here to derail the OP's thread, but since it is somewhat related I will explain. There is plenty of drug cartel violence flooding over the South West states. It is quite a problem. Many Americans are being murdered on their own soil in mass numbers by these cartels. There are even reports of these cartels flying helicopters into American airspace. This is happening, sorry if my link wasn't the greatest to provide. But feel free to prove me wrong and do your own search.

With that to compare to, imagine if the USA dropped a bomb on a Tijuana shanty town every time some drug smuggling thug shot up an American. Imagine if the USA fired white phosphorus into Mexico from San Diego.

Imagine if the Americans burned the Mexicans crops so they can't feed themselves or make a business.

You cannot justify the disproportionate Israeli actions against the Palestinians.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


It would maybe help if your government treated them all as people rather than terrorists, as America created the taliban, Israel created Hamas. Difference was America created them to fight the Russians, Israel created Hamas due to the terrible treatment of the Palestinian people.

I do not for a minute condone terrorism or suicide bombing, what I am saying is you cannot blame a people that are being treated like # for fighting back which ever way they can. To be honest I hope Turkey attacks Israel, its win win, you can self fulfil your prophesy and maybe learn to respect your neighbours.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

From your own link: "could eventually target U.S. citizens and spread into this country"

Yes that is one link. I am not here to derail the OP's thread, but since it is somewhat related I will explain. There is plenty of drug cartel violence flooding over the South West states. It is quite a problem. Many Americans are being murdered on their own soil in mass numbers by these cartels. There are even reports of these cartels flying helicopters into American airspace. This is happening, sorry if my link wasn't the greatest to provide. But feel free to prove me wrong and do your own search.

With that to compare to, imagine if the USA dropped a bomb on a Tijuana shanty town every time some drug smuggling thug shot up an American. Imagine if the USA fired white phosphorus into Mexico from San Diego.

Imagine if the Americans burned the Mexicans crops so they can't feed themselves or make a business.

You cannot justify the disproportionate Israeli actions against the Palestinians.

Are you seriously comparing drug cartels to rocket attacks?

And are you convinced Israel has no drug cartels? For real?
Do check where Israel receive most of it's drugs, from Marijuana to Heroin - hint, their BOARDERS. Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan are the main smuggling routes, and the IDF has unit specially for tracking the smuggling of drugs from these boarders.

Drug cartels? I can count atleast 2 drug cartels, or groups, whatever you'd like, that I know of in my town alone, that are run by Arabs from the west bank and their families.

Don't compare drug problems to rocket attacks as it's simply absurd.


As for the proportionate claim.. Will you be alot more satisfied if Israel used complete proportionality in their retaliation? That means, shooting random rockets at civilian populated places in Gaza? Will you be a happy camper if this happened? No you won't.
If anything, the only reason to blame the unproportional response by the IDF is the fact that the terrorists operate among the population, which makes it extremely hard not to harm the population they are using to hide themselves.
If you think hiding behind your family member while shooting at me, will not make me shoot at you and your family member you are sadly mistaken.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


I am trying to be civil and even see it from your point of view. But your logic is flawed. The Mexican cartels have far more military hardware than the Gazans, and are using it against Americans daily. Most the cartels are ex military. I am not here to argue Semantics. I guess I started it so I can take the blame.

Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

It would maybe help if your government treated them all as people rather than terrorists

It would help if they wouldn't send children and old women to suicide bomb, that way there will be no reason to suspect them all. See? It's easy to pass the blame.

I do not for a minute condone terrorism or suicide bombing, what I am saying is you cannot blame a people that are being treated like # for fighting back which ever way they can.

The best way they can fight is to eradicate Hamas, which will lead to negotiations and their statehood.
Problem is, Hamas are such barbarians it's not easy to get them out of power, so we are in a problem.

To be honest I hope Turkey attacks Israel, its win win, you can self fulfil your prophesy and maybe learn to respect your neighbours.

Well you'd have to wait a few life times for this to happen. Besides, Turkey is going to attack Israel with what? With their ground forces? From which passage exactly? Syrian? HAH! Iraqi? HAHAH!
They can only send in their airforce, which is smaller, and less equipped, and far less trained and professional than the Israeli airforce. Naval ships will do nothing as they will be slaughtered by bomber jets one after another.

Keep dreaming is all I can say, and it's nice to see your true agenda popping out.
I would suggest you wait for an Iranian nuke to be ready. That will be a real threat that will actually scare someone in Israel. Turkey? Don't make me laugh.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

I am trying to be civil and even see it from your point of view. But your logic is flawed. The Mexican cartels have far more military hardware than the Gazans, and are using it against Americans daily. Most the cartels are ex military. I am not here to argue Semantics. I guess I started it so I can take the blame.

I'm trying to be as civil as I can, but it's your logic that is flawed. You are comparing constant barrage of rockets into civilian houses for ten years, to a drug cartel problem that more or less exists in every part of the world with armed gangs of drug dealers. Israel has it too.

When the Mexicans start breaking into US and shoot people in Churches, explode in malls and bus stations, while rocketing civilian homes - then you'd have something to compare. Until then your points are very weak.

You also didn't answer me regarding your proportional response problem - will you be happy if the IDF retaliate in an exact way the Hamas does, by shooting random rockets at civilian population on a daily basis for years? Is this what's going to make you OK with the response?

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Look Israeliguy. Your arguments are empty. They hold no water.

And are you convinced Israel has no drug cartels? For real? Do check where Israel receive most of it's drugs, from Marijuana to Heroin - hint, their BOARDERS. Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan are the main smuggling routes, and the IDF has unit specially for tracking the smuggling of drugs from these boarders.

First off you need to take a course in Israeli drug production 101. If any good real hard drugs come into Israel. Israel had a hand in it. How dare you paint Israel as a safe haven of Gods chosen people living sinless lives.

Organized crime in Israel

Here is another one, trust me there are plenty. Israel is the world's number one producer of MDMA. They dabble in other chemical drugs too. Look into it.

Israeli, Russian mafia export drugs from Goa: NCP

Israeli and Russian drug mafiosi based in Goa manufacture and export synthetic drugs like Ecstacy to the US, the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP) said Wednesday. Speaking to reporters, Avinash Bhosale, general secretary of the NCP, a ruling coalition partner in the Goa government, said the state government was not doing enough to curb peddling of drugs to both tourists and youngsters. 'Both the Israeli and Russian mafia are widely marketing drugs like Ecstasy to the US,' says literature published by the NCP to be used as part of its 'Say No To Drugs' campaign, beginning August. Ecstasy, also known as MDMA, is a synthetically manufactured 'happy' drug, which temporarily relieves the user of anxiety and its possession is punishable in India under the Narcotics, Drugs and Psychotropic Substance (NDPS) Act.

Israel bombs known Gazan smuggling tunnels. Maybe the USA should bomb known Israeli drug smuggling operations and labs. LOL who am I kidding? I bet the USA is in on it too.

Screw Zionism and Palestine will be recognized later this month. All this propaganda garbage being spat on ATS might finally stop.