So, You Hate TPTB. Whats your solution?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

If there is a single axiom that seems undeniable, this would have to be it. because the human condition is constant. We know what our species is capable of. Even as those we refer to as the 'Founding Fathers' of the United States rebelled against the central authority figure of George III, there were plans being made to replace the monarchy with something far more complex. The effort was to dilute authority so that it would not focus from any one, or small collection of individuals over so many.

Of course, here in the opening years of the 21st century, some of us are beginning to think that the outcome is in some question. While we don't have that single, or small cadre of power elite, we have a vast (if not bloated) bureaucracy that has been garnering more and more authority over the years and we're approaching a point where we are faced with literally hundreds, if not thousands of micro-tyrannies.

But it doesn't stop there. We are surrounded by power-wielding figures each and every single day in nearly every activity.

We are answerable - to one degree or the next - to bosses at work, spouses at home, store security personnel where we shop, parking lot attendants, landlords, banks... and yes, here at ATS, we are under the watchful eyes of the Mods and ownership. From there, this wanders helplessly on into the world of the inanimate, too, because we must (by law) obey traffic lights and stop signs and taking a number to have a seat in the sincerest hopes that someday our number will be called.

There's no escaping it.

One current trend is the naive notion of an anarchistic utopia where there is no authority. But that ignores that aforementioned human condition. Even if you succeeded to tearing down current civilization, the rebuild would follow the same path. Individuals would join and create villages... for self protection if nothing else. And for villages there would never be complete harmony... which would produce laws so that we didn't rip each other to shreds and militias to guard against usurpers and bandits, and a government to oversee the the militias and mayors and aldermen and elders who would hold authority over the peasant and his wife and his children and his asses...

The Powers That Be?

We will often define this concept with misty visions of wealth and throw-weight wandering marbled halls in places like Washington, London, Paris... etc. But that power, in somewhat lesser quantities, exists everywhere and there's no escaping from the fact that we are under someone's control nearly every minute of everyday.


We are instinctively, both bound to, and repulsed by the concept of authority. We have the fundamental understanding that it is necessary but also dangerous because we know that the human condition is one of consistent imperfection.

In a nutshell, there is no solution because that which we call TPTB, is just us... and we can't be trusted.

*sigh* Time for a 3rd cup o'joe.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

The reality is pre-columbian native life was harsh and brutal, and few died from old age. Most met their end through disease,infection, in childbirth and the at the tip of a spear. The average lifespan was 25 years, how many here are willing to trade 40 or 50 years off of their lives?

That is a myth perpetuated by the Anthropologically uneducated.

I'll have to dispute that (and your above points.) I am (as everyone knows) an anthropologist and a researcher. I've been on digs and I have certainly handled the material.

Please read about the ORIGINAL affluent society:
www.eco-action.org...
and
www.time.com...

Outdated (as the website says) and reflective of the anthropological understanding at the time it was written. Sahlins is an excellent ethnographer, by the way, and this is the foundation of his "economically rational man" paradigm. I believe he's modified his thoughts since that time.

There are a number of criticisms within the field of his work. I haven't seen his paradigm listed in any of my textbooks (but of course I don't have every anthropological textbook in the world. Can't afford 'em. Just the ones I had for class.)

The bones do tell the story and yes, the average lifespan was 25-35... because child mortality was staggering. Only one fifth of the children lived to adulthood. We do find skeletal remains of people who are much older (even up to 50's) but there don't seem to be any extremely old people (centenarians.) Many die of disease and injury that today we consider easily survivable (including Turkana boy, who died from an infected tooth.)

And the hunter-gatherer paradigm does NOT work with a population of billions. Works just fine if you have a proper sized hunting and gathering range, which we certainly don't have now.

If you're interested in this, look at some of the most recent papers on the topic and look at some of the archaeological dig reports.

reply to post by Byrd


Byrd, You are highly respected at least by me in your knowledge and intelligence. So it would be very interesting to hear what your thoughts are on this topic.

Now if you dont believe in a ptb, because it seems to conspiracy oriented or for whatever reason, then please provide a succinct message of what your personal thoughts are on how to make the world a better place, but ideally a response to slayers question.

I personally would find it interesting to hear your thoughts.

Its not the hunting gatherer society most of us, save but for a few survavilist men, wish to return to. I see the real technology, CLEAN ENERGY, high cosmic technology, reducing need for manual labor. The Venus Project without an elite group managing people, but grass roots citizens in equal numbers, male and female, in counsels, almost like Jury duty. Only possible with a really strong equal set of Virtues (I don't like law and there is no instrinsic law that gives them the right to make laws, though they like to throw around worlds like rule of law and order out of chaos alot. I call them the virtues, and they're based on very basic common law of not harming others). For freedoms sake one would have to have zones for those who did not agree, with access of all of those in it to return, when they woke up more. Because you simply can't force, but at the same time, citizens should be free to move anywhere and not be kept in borders.

Also only possible with a completely open, transparent High Eductation system that has children trying on careers and roles early on , and knowing that without contrabutions and volunteering, all advancement would cease, that able bodied, unencumbered people contribute, and choose ways to help, retrain frequently if necessary, to find new ways to help.

Eco farms, with shared farms and space, and lots of privacy too, beauty and abuncance.

Advanced caretaking of nature and the planet.

Careful use of resources, ie. advanced use of bio degradable plants for plastics, but not grown in farm lands, but in d grade lands and simply created out of algae slurries in factories.

Virtualization. Imagine a small holder on your desk and a lovely lab grown quartz, powering your monitor, with a virtualized supercomputer within, powered on.

Cleaning up the radiation and pollution with their frequency technolgy, as Tom Bearden has given much evidence for, radiation can be neutralized, so can much diseases already cured.

No reason for not only this abuse of humanity, and murder of them, thinning the herd, but walking over them as if they have any right to a higher standing.

The greatest amongst us is the smallest most vulnerable person.

I have no respect for anyone who does not come clean and disclose and work with people to overturn, peacefully but firmly, this corruption and stop the murders.

So people need to really really really think deeply. There is a purpose to this school. The Masons got one thing right, As Above So Below, is a good statement.

The analogy of the matrix is a womb. We're being born, becoming. We need to ensure we don't become what our spirits/souls were never meant to become, for having to make many U-Turns on the road, and overhwelmed by the guilt and conscious of harming family, who are known to us and dear to us, when the memories return, is something that the true Higher Ups would never wish on anyone.

This is about going from the selfish stage to the selfless stage of maturity. Service to Others, and basically growing up.

There are so many analogies. We're trying to potty train here. We're learning to ride a bike, and keep falling off. We're in preschool, we're in kindergarden. Most importantly, its all prenatal.

Of course my solution is to realize that the only forces that really oppose us are within ourselves....

The demons of the mind are much worse for the common man than any modern western government.

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Wise men like Heraclitus, Zeno, Buddha, Socrates, Descartes or Spinoza never had the ambition to run the world.
What you call "wise" isn't wise at all.

Excellent point! one would think that a "wise" man would be wise enough to know that he doesn't want the headaches involved in running much more than himself, which can be a full-time job!

My solution and answer to my frustration to the current situation is in my tag.

The solution can be found only on personal level, not on social level.
It is a matter of personal responsibility and it can be only about yourself.
Being responsible for others means herding those others and applying force upon them to "behave" themselves.
What a miserable state humanity has brought itself into!

Originally posted by steveknows

If we just went back to being little farming communities there's be a world wide famine and billions would die of hunger. The idea of it is appealing but the reality of it doesn't work. Even food and the way of getting it out to the people is done on a industrial scale and supports 6 billion world wide give or take a few million keeping in mind that the famines in the world today are due to war and mismanagement which have interfered with the food supply in those regions.

Where's the downside to that?

If these billions can't even feed themselves, why are they on my planet?

Isn't that the very definition of "useless eater"?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I would like to see the U.S. go back to the way it was before
europe invaded it.People respecting the land,nature and animals.
Killing animals for food and not for sport.Growing your own food
and feeling the earth in your hands as you plant your crops.Drinking
water that is pure and clean from any river,lake or pond.
Women baking bread and cooking real food not something thrown
in a microwave.Making your own clothes and embroidering your
linens.Milking the cows,feeding the livestock and canning food from
your garden.

These wonderful people exist today in our country.
The Amish.
But that's entirely a different thread.
SnF
S 4 U

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Jews, Muslims, Christians, Bankers, Wealthy individuals, LEOs, Politicians, Servicemen, Royalty, The Clergy, Rabbis, Priests, Preachers, Ayatollahs, Caliphs, Imams, Mullahs, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Scientists, Historians, The US, Israel, The Russians, The Chinese, The Arabs, The Iranians, The North Koreans and my cousin Vinny

Not sure, but you may have forgot honorable mentions for Niburu?
And...Aliens?



reply to post by Violater1


I am with you on that one.
Thats a dream to pursue!

reply to post by burntheships




Well that's true. I tried not to leave anybody out when I came out swinging.
Now I feel bad.

Hey niburu believers my bad for not adding you too.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Not that I ama believer er...um...or ...I actually have not followed that villain enough to even know.
Yet, I thought it worth mentioning.



ETA: Elenin too. You have to be fair.

edit on 17-9-2011 by burntheships because: learning how to spell Elenin

reply to post by burntheships


According to this thread, they're both the same thing. That's like conspiracy theory on a budget!

Nibinin? Elebru?

'ell if I know!

reply to post by nenothtu


Oh No!

So, its an Niburu and Elenin villainous combo.

reply to post by 8fl0z


You use the words 'kill them all' and 'to better ourselves' in the same sentence?

Originally posted by firekoral
reply to post by Desolate Cancer

 

You know you could make a lot of money if you could construct a religion out of electron worship

We did. It's called an ipod/ipad

reply to post by burntheships


< sniff >

AHHH!

The smell of fresh doom in the morning!

another idea is to build a real community of like minds

not a survival bunker camp, something real

reply to post by steveknows


Hello,
There are people who have thought about this extensively. For example The Venus Project by Jacque Fresco. It doesn’t have to happen overnight.. Just saying
en.wikipedia.org...