5 Evils-Righteous person ever :

Seriously, I'm not turning this into a racial thing now but Africans discovered the Americas way before Columbus did. The Olmecs, the first empire in the Americas were Africans.

The Africans knew about the west winds from Africa, it's even said Columbus knew this and took many trips to Africa because of it, to learn from it.

There are black statues with African features in Central and South America with their nose chopped off, makes you wonder.

It's even said the Mayans are descendants of Egyptian sailors who sailed the seas thousands of years before Columbus and that could probably explain why there were pyramids in Central America and South America that directly were parallel to pyramids in Egypt.

Just so you know, that's not why he's on my list-
and secondly it was actually the native Americans(Indians) that discovered America first.
Magestica

Good:

how about . . .

1- raoul wallenberg
2- andrei sakharov
3- joan of arc - selfless, ultimate self-sacrific, even if in the service of deluded religious visions. her courage rallied a depressed native people to rout english baddies. turned the proverbial historical tide.

4- gandhi
5- soccer moms ? soccer dads ?

evil munsters :

1- hitler
2- stalin
3- pol pot
3- idi amin
4- saddam
5- tamerlane, of the infamous pyramids of human skulls infamy.

dishonorbale mentionables: perpertrators of the recent rwanda massacre. can you imagine three quarters of a million people slaughtered, largely with machetes, in ONE MONTH ! ! !

Ill, you nut, Africa never knew anything about the Americas.

You want to know where columbus learned about the fact that you could travel west?

The Knights Templar, whom had been thought to been to America before, following in the foot steps of the Vikings (white guys) who had built colonies on the North American coast, and proved this by building a chapel with Corn and Potatoes and the like, in Scotland, decades before Columbus went over there.

Then furthermore, when the Templars broke up, their sea knowledge was passed on to Knights of Jesus or whatever it was, in Portugal, and Columbus's Uncle or another relative of such likeness, was one. He of course flew the Templar standard for this reason.

You could be most definately right, notice how I said "could". Yes this has been disputed over the years,
but from what I've been taught and have read, is that the "true" founders of America actually came from Asia.
They were there when Columbus arrived and he labled them as "Los Indios" which are now universally called "American Indians". They may not have "discovered" America per say, but they were the original settlers.
now back to what you said 5POF~ Apparantly there was a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska which provided means of passage for the first immigrants to the new world. But they were in no way settlers, they were just hunters following game for survival. So yes because there is a "blank" page in history after this and before Columbus-they could have very well been the Vikings, I just haven't heard enough about it to say that it is truth?
Magestica

No dispute (real dispute) that Native Americans did come here first.

But I don't see where Illimatic gets the idea that Africans had even a clue that there was anything across the sea.

The only other ancient peoples who are speculated to have known about the Americas is the Phoenicians, whom were the first to sail around Africa, and whom also wrote some comments pertaining to what could possibly be the Amazon. Though there is no proof of this, it is known that the Phoenicians discovered the Canary islands and the Azores, as their coins, among other artifacts, had been found there.

As for the Africans themselves, until the 900s AD the people living in West Africa had little exploration done in the way of Seafare. At least until Ill. shows where the idea that they too knew of America, came from.

But it really doesn't matter, the only people who DIDN'T know that America existed, was the Catholic church and their subjugates.

The Templars constantly spoke about "Merica" or "the land of milk and honey" to the west.

The Vikings spoke about "The Land of Legend".

The Greeks and Romans knew the earth was round, the Greeks even tested it.

I'm sure even the Muslims had a good idea that there was undiscovered country out there...it's just who was brave enough, (or stupid enough rather), to sail the open seas? The navigation they had at the time were more or less too undeveloped to have achieved reasonably, such a feat.

Even Magellan sailed around the world by hugging the coast line the best he could, and staying in one Parallel till he found more coast line.

Anyways, Ill...just where did you get the idea Africans knew about the Americas before say the Europeans...?

Oh and Magestica, it seems maybe you thought I meant that Vikings were here first?

No...I meant that the Vikings simply came over in 934 or something like that, they set up colonies, purported to be as far south as to Manhattan which would explain why the Vikings left.

In their "Land of Legend" tales, they were constantly attacked by peoples, and they had no steel to work weapons with so eventually had to give up and leave.

Theorists theorize that the agression began, if there was any, due to the Natives there probably being lactose intollerant since there were no cows, and the Vikings trading milk with them would have made them very sick...good cause for them to be angry lol.

Well the Templars knew a lot of secular knowledge from all non-christian lands, this is why it is purported and well supported that they followed the Viking foot steps.

In 1450 I believe, the guy's name is on the tip of my tongue, but he was related in some way to the Sinclairs and he sailed from northern scottland folowing the old Viking path to the new world, and he is thought to have explored up to the Hudson area.

When I write BUSH FAMILY, I mean the entire Family, Starting to Bush Gran'pa, Who was sadly famous for his ideas near of the KKK and the Nazism, The elder (Desert Storm), The junior, Jeb and his daughters...
Bush-W is so crual that he even put his own daughter in jail !

BUSH look like BORGIA, in a sense !

Hmm I'm sure you Frenchies love Kennedy, and they actually wrote Pro-Nazi books saying why they should be allowed to do what-not.

I thought that Columbus would get lit into more for the way he and others treated the native americans upon their arrival....

As far as who discovered America first...from what I've seen, the first ones to discover it from Europe were the vikings.

I'll side with Illmatic a little bit concerning africans in South America...as there is evidence that ancient Egypt traded with South Americans....(they just called the continent by a different name....Atlantis ) Of course, even just looking at physical features, it can be seen that "indians" more resemble mongoloid, than caucasian or negroid ancestry. Thus, they are more likely descended from those Asians who first came across the land bridge of what is now the Aleutian chain...

This is what I meant by "missing page" in history. In reality noone really knows who were the very first settlers on this fine land. I've seriously heard everything throughout the years that has contradicted other reports. This is the first I've heard of African Americans thou..but hey, I'm still young and learning...I just know that Columbus was greeted by peoples when they stepped off the ship and he called those peoples "Los Indios" but whose really to say "they" were actually the first? So I guess I wouldn't discredit anything that someone else throws in here about who they think was here first. I would listen and decide for myself and that's about all we have..

As far as Columbus goes, he wasn't the greatest towards the Indians, but Geronimo wasn't the greatest towards the white man, yet they are both on my list for different reasons. I'm far too open minded to see only one persons perspective, therefore I find reasons in them both that are great to me
Magestica

I was simply more interested to know what "good" things Columbus did, other than being bold enough to sail to what he thought was India, via another route. He was motivated strictly by profit (the premise of finding another trade route to India for his queen), not by sheer discovery. This is why he called the natives "Indians" and why the name sticks to this day.

5POF,

All I can tell you is to read a book called They came before Columbis

Author brings up very interesting points. The black Olmec statues in Central Africa which no one has been able to rebut as being black. Only 10% of the slaves actually came from Africa, where did they get the rest? They were already here. Blacks in America have Native American blood, not all of them but some do.

'Is it a coincidence that Spain and Italy were the first two European countries to climb out of the Dark Ages? No. Italy's trade routes with Africa long brought it into contact with Moslem and Chinese advances. And Spain; Spain was part of Islam! On the streets of Cardoba,Spain you would have seen Africans, Moslems, and a bunch of other races. By the way, the Moslems invented the magnetic compass and the astrolabe. This same Moslem learning flourished at the world first university; in Timbaktu. Timbaktu was in Mali, West Africa. In this climate how could West Africans not have known about sailing and trade routes?'

It's Nephti the mormon who as the first to travel from AEgypt to south america...

Illmatic is an amusing character.

Ok first off, I can't tell you my 5 good and evil...Actually I could but no one would know who I was talking about. The reason I say that, is that I don't know any of the people in history, as far as I know the good could have been evil and the evil could have been good, I mean we are taking our good and evil people from what we have read and seen aren't we.
Now for the reason I decided to post. My people discovered America. I am a mix between the Golds and the Reds, who invented most of the stuff we credit others for. Everyone knows that all modern society, religion, etc. came from Atlantis. Some of the survivors of the cataclism settled America around 11,000 b.c.
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