Bush...a Christian?

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy
Now, I'm pretty sure we've all heard Bush call himself a "born-again" Christian, but I'm not sure he's anything remotely close to the sort

He's what the bible calls a FALSE PROPHET.

NO ONE whose done the things he's done and said the things he's done could possibly be a Christian.

Anyone who disagrees with this assertion should dive into the New Testament and do some serious bible study.

Hmmm, I still haven't anyone say Bush is a Christian, for someone who seems to be basing much of his admin on his "religion", I don't see any supporters defending him, like I said earlier.

This an excellent question, TenaciousGuy. One very similar to one I have asked in the past - can someone be a Profit-driven Republican and a Christian ?

I don't know which god Bush worships but its certainly not Jesus. In fact, if you were to take his actions in the past as a benchmark, I would categorically state that if he's anything, he's a Laveyan Satanist. (Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan followed an almost Nietzschian creed of Survival of the fittest and I'm alright, Jack).

To get back to the original point, there are a couple of articles by Earnest Partridge which may help to answer the question.

Our �President� appears to be prepared to �kick some Iraqi ass.� What would Jesus do?

Ye have heard that it hath it said, thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you. (Matt. 5: 43-44)

While he was the Governor of Texas, George Bush signed 155 death warrants, and granted no pardons to condemned prisoners. What would Jesus do?

Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. (Matt. 5:7) ...

Our glorious free market economy is driven by the profit motive. What might Jesus say about the profit motive?

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. ... For where you treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matt. 6: 19, 21)

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Matt. 6:24)

What Would Jesus Do ?

As for exactly how the Bush Administration gets so many Christians to vote their way, may I suggest the following article, also by Earnest Partridge.

How does one convince millions of devout Christians to accept a secular political-economic philosophy developed and articulated, in large part, by atheists? How does one, in addition, enable this same multitude of Christians to disregard how their political �allies� are taking cash out of their pockets and redistributing it �upward� from the middle class and the poor to the already wealthy, at the cost, in addition, of impoverishing essential social services, aid to the poor, and placing a crushing debt upon future generations? And finally, how are these Christians persuaded that the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are somehow consistent with aggressive foreign wars, the increased enrichment of the wealthy, the denial of relief to the poor, comfort to the afflicted, education for the young, and employment for the jobless.?

George Bush wants to tell the world that he�s been �born again.� But �born again� to what? To pacifism, humility, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, frugality? The Bible teaches that �By their fruits shall ye know them.� (Matt: 7:20) It seems that Mr. Bush has not learned very much from his �favorite philosopher.�

Suckers for Jesus

And finally, may I end with a final quote from the 'What would Jesus Do' article ...

When faced with such hypocrisy as we seem to find amongst prominent �Christians� today, what did Jesus do?

Jesus wept. (John 12:35).

Who would Jesus bomb?

The question is absurd. Christ would never become politically powerful because power = corruption. The Devil offered him his own kingdom and he refused it. Imagine the Devil offers you the USA and you deny it.

Neither Bush nor Kerry is a Christian they both belong to SKULL & BONES a SATANIC CULT that worships Hitler amongst other things. I believe they play the christian thing to play to the sheeple that get all their info from tv media.

My opinion, is that he is not a Christian. Or better stated, he doesn't act in a very Christian manner if he is. Assuming by Christian, we mean following the teachings of Christ. As oppossed to the entire Bible.

If Bush truely believed in God, wouldn't he trust God to win the election? He has said, that he felt it was God's will for him to be president. If God wanted him to be president, and he truely believed that. Why did he feel the need, to try and manipulate the outcome of the election? I mean we are talking about Florida here. A state that elected his brother to the highest governemnet position in the state. AS A REPUBLICAN. Bush is a republican as well, so why didn't he feel he would win? Wouldn't you feel like the election was in the bag, if it were you? Especially if you believed in your heart, that you are the annointed one?

Not Bush, for some reason he questioned if he would win, if the votes were actually counted. Instead he decided to take a shot with the Supreem Court. Now why would he do that? Take it from a provable sure win in Florida, which was currently a Republican leaning state. To what should theoretically be a 50/50 chance with the court. What made him so sure, the court would find in his FAVOR? Things that make you go.......hmmmmm.

Bush and I may worship the same God. All I know, is that the God I believe in, is much more powerful then his. I trust my God to have his will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven. I don't feel, I need to manipulate anything, for his will to be done.

Tom Sawyer

That begs one question then, why did 47,000 voters in FL. also register in NY? with over 67% being registered Democrats, seems to me both sides play loose with election rules and voting in america

theindependentjournal,

Maybe you misunderstood my point? I wasn't saying that I don't think Bush is a Christian, because he took it to the Supreem Court. I'm saying, if he truely believed God wanted him to be president. Why would he worry about how the vote was counted etc.? If God truely wanted him to be president, he would be president reguardless of how the vote was counted wouldn't he? Didn't he believe that God works in mysterious ways? Why didn't he TRUST or have FAITH that it was God's will. If he truely believed it was God's will? He doesn't sound like a man with alot of faith in his God, IMO.

On the flip side, apparently Bush was right. Because what I am saying about Bush, holds true for Gore as well. If God had wanted Gore to be president, he would be right now. However, just because God allowed Bush to be president. It isn't an endorsement by God of his moral fiber. Or that he is better than anyone else in God's eyes. God wanted Bush to be president, so he would do exactly what he did in office. The effect has been. That, alot more people in the US are actually paying attention to this next election, taking an interest in politics, and world affairs ect.. So there has been a positive effect or outcome from this. It's just too bad this is what had to take place, to wake more of the sheeple up.

In response to your statement, yes both parties are corrupt,
Tom Sawyer

.
George W Bush is NOT an athiest or agnostic, we have at least some sense of decency and humanity, qualities of which he has NONE.
.

Originally posted by TomSawyer
theindependentjournal,

Maybe you misunderstood my point? I wasn't saying that I don't think Bush is a Christian, because he took it to the Supreem Court. I'm saying, if he truely believed God wanted him to be president. Why would he worry about how the vote was counted etc.? If God truely wanted him to be president, he would be president reguardless of how the vote was counted wouldn't he? Didn't he believe that God works in mysterious ways? Why didn't he TRUST or have FAITH that it was God's will. If he truely believed it was God's will? He doesn't sound like a man with alot of faith in his God, IMO.

On the flip side, apparently Bush was right. Because what I am saying about Bush, holds true for Gore as well. If God had wanted Gore to be president, he would be right now. However, just because God allowed Bush to be president. It isn't an endorsement by God of his moral fiber. Or that he is better than anyone else in God's eyes. God wanted Bush to be president, so he would do exactly what he did in office. The effect has been. That, alot more people in the US are actually paying attention to this next election, taking an interest in politics, and world affairs ect.. So there has been a positive effect or outcome from this. It's just too bad this is what had to take place, to wake more of the sheeple up.

In response to your statement, yes both parties are corrupt,
Tom Sawyer

Maybe the reason you no longer see fire and brimstone crashing into sinful cities, angels intervening when the bad guys are winning, or God getting fed up and flooding the whole planet, is because at one point he retired from that, came to Earth, and tried to explain how things should work. After that he went back to Heaven and retired from bothering with human affairs. The realm of ethics is entirely up to humans to figure out.

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Maybe the reason you no longer see fire and brimstone crashing into sinful cities, angels intervening when the bad guys are winning, or God getting fed up and flooding the whole planet, is because at one point he retired from that, came to Earth, and tried to explain how things should work. After that he went back to Heaven and retired from bothering with human affairs. The realm of ethics is entirely up to humans to figure out.

Maybe it's because we as a society started documenting history more accuratly, and with the advents of science we have been able to more accuratly explain natural phenominon instead of blaming it on a wrathfull or angry diety.

Maybe the organization of the church is nothing more than the use of a fictional opnipotant being who threatens eternal damination if the orginzation that represents it is not obeyed to the letter.

But that is just a maybe.

wraith

[edit on 25-8-2004 by wraith30]

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy
I don't see any supporters defending him, like I said earlier.

They still haven't come out?

Well, I'll give it a shot then.
A Bush supporter defending him would probably say:

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Unlike most of you all, I don't know the man personally so I can't really comment on how serious he is in his religious beliefs. Our even all he believes, sure he's given us tidbits but not enough to judge the man. Speaking of those tidbits, maybe I missed it but I've never seen or heard Bush come off as a bible thumping - man of fire - holy roller Christian as you all are making him seem like. Sure he's admitted he's born again, but what else? Has he been trying to convert the masses or something? Because I think I missed that too.
Him using God as justification of the war? Hasn't in every war the leader always claimed that God was on their side? What makes this different? And why isn't the media jumping on that instead of the WMD claim as justification of the war?
Also I really want to see the "I have conversations with God" quotes and the context.
I know plenty of Christians and they say if God doesn't speak to you and you're just living your life haphazardly then somethings wrong then.


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that about right?

Hi Tenacious Guy:

Couple of Questions:

l. What makes you think YHWH the clan god of post Exilic Israel (the socalled god of the "Bible") is a "kind god"? Doesn't it say, Yahweh is a Man of War? and all that genociding and exterminating the Amalekites and the Girgi#es and the Hivvites and the Jebusites in the Torah (e.g. Deuteronomy chapter 13 or Deuteronomy chapter 20), well....it doesn't sound like the clan god of Israel is very kind, but rather like Adolf Hitler 's maniacal ravings in Mein Kampf actually.

"Kill them all, leave nothing breathing, the men, the women, the children AND the ANIMALS..and BURN THEIR BONES UPON MY ALTAR AS A PERPETUAL HOLOCAUST saith YHWH the clan-god (Heb. "Elohim") of Israel. Of course you'd have to learn how to read paleo Hebrew without vowells to get the full force of the Torah, but it's a good start in English anyway with their clever use of the word "smite"...!

2. What do you mean by "Christian?" When a "young rich ruler" once came up to R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jeeezuzz" to the Americans)-----you know, the Galilean (and Daviddic blooded) "Rabbi" who was executed by crucifixion for armed sedition against Rome (Luke 22:18-28) during the reign of the Divine Emperor Tiberius---at least according to the gospel narratives (or do you suppose the ear of the slave of the high priest at the Jerusalem cult temple was cut off with a butter knife?)-----and asked the Rabbi "what must I do to be saved" , the answer was "Obey all the laws of Moses" (all 613 of them), then "take all of your possessions and sell them, and put the money in the poor Box"----I don't know anyone living today who obeys all 613 laws of Moses (ox blood can get messy on lawn furniture what with that Temple ground to powder by the Romans during the war that Israel, well...lost in AD 70) AND give all of his money away to the poor !

So I guess there are no "true Christians" out there, except maybe very very very strict orthodox Jews, and even they would have trouble sacrificing goats on time.

And as for "Jeeezuzz" being peaceful and forgiving, there are quite a number of sayings you might look up in your gospels: Thinkst Thou the Son of Man cometh to Bring Peace? Nay, not Peace, but a Sword: Not Harmony by Division: Amen the Son of Man cometh to set father against daughter and mother against son, father in law against daughter in law and mother in law against son in law...so that a man's enemies are those of his own family!"

or, "Let he who does not have a Sword tonight, sell his outer tunic and buy one immediately !" (Luke 22:18)

Or maybe you should remember the socalled "Temple Tantrum" which seems to have involved whips and cords of some kind during some kind of mass violent protest against the sons of Zadok (Tsaddukkim or Saducees) in the Temple precincts.

Doesn't sound too gentle or kind to me.

I know plenty of Christians and they say if God doesn't speak to you and you're just living your life haphazardly then somethings wrong then.


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that about right?

They hear voices too? This nation has more mentaly ill than i thought. Or do you mean "God talks to them" as in guides them? They're two different things. Its ok for us to talk to God, prayers etc., but to look up

and wait till the voice speaks, not many religious people I know do that.
Word has it that Bush claims direct communication with God. That's dilussional, hence the medication he's on. (Its all over the internet)
Of course, you're more than entitled to your opinion. We all have one.