Is organic food a scam?

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by pepsi78

 

You can't get organic certified if you use chemical pesticides and contrary to popular belief the pesticides do not dissipate as claimed but can stay in the soil for years. It doesn't matter its purpose the point is it is inorganic and harmful and cannot be used of you want to claim your produce is organic.

Well that is an irony, because the term organic has to do with the soil, not what you spray on the plant but what you put in the soil. I suppose it's made to make the product spotless, more of a natural 100% product, but they can't pull this off on mass fields, can you imagine checking every night to see if there are bugs eating from your stuff. It can't be done, this stuff is growing indoors more than outdoors. It is not possible to verify every instance if bugs are eating out of your 1000 say plant culture. So how organic is it if it grows inside you would imagine, so the term artificial comes into mind if you grow it indoors. Not so organic ?

I presume pesticide is regardless if the product is from "organic soil" or not.

I am sorry but where you got that info from ?
pepsi is absouloutly right !

when did people start thinking that organic means more nutritious? I eat organic and I never once thought that. no chemicals! natural! no pesticides...thats what it means. whoever thinks that needs to actually read what organic means. i cant believe that was even an article because that means a lot of people think that. i'm so tired of trying to buy everything organic and worrying about food. i'm tired of food!!!! was there ever a time when people ate truly healthy food with out all this added crap!?

reply to post by pepsi78

Well that is an irony, because the term organic has to do with the soil, not what you spray on the plant but what you put in the soil.

What part of; if you spray the plants with pesticides it is also going to get in the soil, do you not understand? And organic does not just have to do with soil only it has to do with the plants also... Sigh.

i buy organic food because genetically modified food is linked to organ failier, birth defects, honey bee and butterfly deaths and many other things that are bad. Sure maybe the nutrients are the same but for example GMO corn contains BT which is toxic and doesn't break down in your gut. We should be eating natural foods nature intended us to eat not these franken-food cross species hybrids

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by newcovenant


this is not true at all. People are not going for organics because they are more nutritious

I am personally acquainted with many people who go for it because they say its more healthy. I guess they have fallen for false advertising?

I go for it because it IS more healthy...indirectly. The nutritient value may be par or even less than non-organic but what is making Organic a healthier choice is isn't the percieved nutrient value. It is the lack of synthetic/artificial/un-natural/GMO/steriod/horomone etc that is found in virtually ALL non-organic foods.

Organic is big because people know it is as safe as you can get without knowing exactly what you are looking for or not looking for in your food.

For example, milk and dairy products can SAY all natural on them can SAY 0% trans fat etc etc to increase marketing value but it says absolutely nothing about the conditions of the cow the dairy came from or what happens afterward...method of transport/warehousing etc.

The milk many people buy and drink is milk from several different cows, a glass of milk could easily be a mix of 5 or 6 different cows milk, also if the cow is milked WHILE pregnant (which many are as they produce more at those times) there is no consideration of what the pre-birth horomones has on human consumption if any...I mean who cares right its JUST MILK?! At least thats the way we use to think...

I think however though a small minority (as of now) of people are starting to take all these things into consideration when they purchase/consume foods. This in turn is driving people "away" from wall-mart, Kroger, etc...and into smaller stores such as "Vitamin Cottage" here where I live.

You can see the obvious responce to the consumer demand starting to appear on the shelves in Target and Wall-Mart (at least where I live) where there are more USDA organic options to bring those lost consumers back...

Fact is most all people don't consider all these factors when making food decisions. They want/need milk so they go get it without a thought more...with the mindset "Its JUST MILK!"

If these people suddenly had the urge to be "healthier" without investing anymore effort...they now just buy "organic" little effort into educated food purchases and consumption while the "comfort blanket" of being healthy...

When you just aren't sure what is healthy and what is not healthy...go organic.

I personally feel that:

-We don't KNOW for sure 100% that Organic IS better for you...

-We don't know for sure 100% what problems can come from eating foods with horomones/pesticides/steroids/GMO etc...

-We don't know WHAT IS good or better to be eating so we cling to "safety blankets" such as USDA organic (which I support by the way)

-We (common consumer) don't know anything about the "food production" process and what are the consiquences of those processses...

with that much uncertainty...in a market that people NEED to be invested in (food) people will follow the trends endlessly...USDA organic being one of them.

Which, honestly I think is a nice change of pace and I hope those practices pick up world-wide.

More research needs to be done though.

the choice between non-organic and organic can be compared to the choices between Kosher and non-Kosher food consumption.

reply to post by hawkiye

Well if it's grown in doors I suppose it's pesticide free, but only if it's indoors, I don't know that does not sound too natural to me. If it's outside it';s imposible for the culture to survive without some sort of protection.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Well if it's grown in doors I suppose it's pesticide free, but only if it's indoors, I don't know that does not sound too natural to me. If it's outside it';s imposible for the culture to survive without some sort of protection.

really? are you sure? maybe im misunderstanding you but are you implying that without pesticides plants couldn't survive outdoors? Surely I'm just simply missunderstanding you...

reply to post by Sly1one

It's what I'm saying, bugs are everywhere in nature, they can come by air, by under the ground, or by simply walking on the fields. Don't tell me you're going to put a scare crow for the bugs, that only works for the birds.

So how are you going to protect your plants from pests ? It's not realistic.

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Sly1one

 

It's what I'm saying, bugs are everywhere in nature, they can come by air, by under the ground, or by simply walking on the fields. Don't tell me you're going to put a scare crow for the bugs, that only works for the birds.

So how are you going to protect your plants from pests ? It's not realistic.

edit on 7-9-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

you don't protect them...just as nature doesn't protect them.

Take The "Human Arrogance and Intervention" factor out of the equation and you have what should be truly organic and natrual food.

Nature has a way and how it "does business" made you and me and everything we see and eat "possible"...so I'm more inclined to think we should just "let it do its thing"...

Every garden I have had, I have never used pesticides and more recently have only used organic fertilized soil via compost. The plants grew and I could eat them...its reallllly simple and really low maintenence and very lost cost...it is possible.

The choice to support, purchase, and consume organic goods is an individual one. I choose organic for a number of reasons, and these are a few of the key ones:

1) Organic food tastes better to me. Perhaps this is because of the next reason.....
2) Organic food has been proven time and again to contain higher levels of vitamins and minerals, and lower levels of harmful nitrates, than their conventional counterparts. Although this fact is dismissed or downplayed by pro-conventional parties, the percentages are statistically-significant and the benefits are, I believe, cumulative.
3) The USDA Organic label ensures I'm not eating genetically-modified foods, which I don't care to consume.
4) Organic farming practices tend to preserve soil integrity, leading to less nutrient loss and better distribution of nutrients in food.
5) Organic farming is safer for consumers and for farmers. Long-term exposure to pesticides - whether ingested, inhaled, or absorbed through the skin - is linked to cancer and other health concerns.

In summary, I choose better tasting food with higher nutrient content - and in the process I'm helping protect myself, the environment, and farm workers from cancer-causing chemicals. I'm not supporting chemical companies by my eating habits (or by my household products usage, for that matter - I choose to use non-toxic and biodegradable "environmentally-friendly" products).

This fragile earth and its cumbersome population could use a little relief from all the unnecessary man-made poisons that pollute the planet and her inhabitants! By doing my small part I can feel good about what I consume each day. Is that a scam? Not by a stretch!

Originally posted by pepsi78
reply to post by Sly1one

 

It's what I'm saying, bugs are everywhere in nature, they can come by air, by under the ground, or by simply walking on the fields. Don't tell me you're going to put a scare crow for the bugs, that only works for the birds.

So how are you going to protect your plants from pests ? It's not realistic.

Ive actually been thinking about this. Its not like pesticides are without purpose. I dont know whats worse, having food chemically sprayed or having all kinds of bugs crawl around in them.

reply to post by Sly1one

Every garden I have had, I have never used pesticides and more recently have only used organic fertilized soil via compost. The plants grew and I could eat them...its reallllly simple and really low maintenence and very lost cost...it is possible.

If you were not living solely off the garden, or mass producing food for millions of people, it is not comparable to reality in the slightest.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Sly1one

Every garden I have had, I have never used pesticides and more recently have only used organic fertilized soil via compost. The plants grew and I could eat them...its reallllly simple and really low maintenence and very lost cost...it is possible.

 

If you were not living solely off the garden, or mass producing food for millions of people, it is not comparable to reality in the slightest.

What a ridiculous statement. of course it is comparable it is just a matter of scale. And the fact the many people are doing it from gardeners to commercial farmers and all points in between proves it can be done.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by camouflaged

 

Yes, the upside is that its produced without pesticides (critics say that the downside is that it takes up more space to produce organic foods, thus destroying ecosystems), but the majority of organic food eaters I know eat it with the assumption / idea that they are eating more healthy foods. Its pretty astonishing to me that evidence indicates otherwise...

Organic farming gives virtually identical yields so where the critics are coming from on that one leaves Me scratching My head.

The biggest issues concerning the general consumer are price and safety.

Essentially, is it worth paying more for an organic apple to avoid the possible, not proven, detrimental health effects of a GM apple.

We make food decisions based on what avenue that food will negatively affect us first. If buying organic foods will put one in a financial bind before health effects begin to arise, one will undoubtedly choose GMOs. And Vice Versa.

Of course, the other issue would be the sustainability of monocrops.

Skyfloating: Is organic food a scam? No. Is the nutrient content between Organic and GMOs substantially different? Depends on the data you're looking at. The biggest reason to eat Organic foods is simply to avoid the possible negative health effects of GMOs. That's really it.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Sly1one

Every garden I have had, I have never used pesticides and more recently have only used organic fertilized soil via compost. The plants grew and I could eat them...its reallllly simple and really low maintenence and very lost cost...it is possible.

 

If you were not living solely off the garden, or mass producing food for millions of people, it is not comparable to reality in the slightest.

You do realize that people can go almost a month without eating so long as they have liquids right? You realize that it is possible to live individually off a single garden right? You must realize that life is possible off significantly less than commonly thought, yet you act as if we'll wither away and DIE if we don't supplement our diets with synthetic mass manufactured pesticide laden GMO foods?

The ironic thing is that MOST PEOPLE already don't eat enough vegetables, fruits, live foods to meet even the basic nutritional "reccomendations" and yet here we are already discussing how if we don't utilize pesticides,GMO etc..were in famine...as if thats all people eat, as if the bell pepper yeild goes down from Organic growth the world is in serious trouble!?!?!?

reply to post by Skyfloating




I think the better question is, Is inorganic food a scam? Does it not remove nutritional value to genetically modify a plant to resist infestation, to travel well, or to ripen slower?

I mean if they were boosting vigor of the original plant great but these are at CROSS PURPOSES and they benefit the manufactureer and not us, why do we roll over to make their life easier and ours more tasteless and bland?

For FLAVOR VALUE alone I would say that genetically modified milks and butters (inorganics) as well as the fruits and vegetables taste immeasurably better and with SO MUCH GREATER FLAVOR I actually feel people who don't eat that way have dulled their taste buds/ dumb-ed them down.

Is food that has been tampered with actually as good for you as a mixed diet as nature intended?

Does food work synergistically with the human body and would a natural diet improve overall health more than a diet of irradiated and genetically modified stuff?

Be curious to see some side by side studies since nutrient comparison actually proves very little. We are more than a bunch of numbers.
What is "nutritional value" after all - if it is not how the body responds in time and in totality?

An on site test and comparison of nutrient value will not show this.
Results in that case will be a limited and may not provide ALL WE NEED TO KNOW. Many people are of the idea foods work best in concert synergistic and it is another factor that is affected when the original item is tampered with in its essential form for convenience or mass producing the plant, ease of storage or long shelf life of the fruit. How can these changes to the organic original fruit or vegetable HELP my body?

I think it is really important to have the choice.
You should be able to eat the way God wanted you to.

I did not say you should eat that way but you should have that as a readily available and plentiful choice.

It is already proved that eating locally grown products will strengthen your immune system and you should eat regionally.Which means if you live where tropical fruits are grown you need to eat them, where they have a lot of tubers, you benefit from eating those where they are grown (more than SHIPPED OR IMPORTED FOODS) Another example is that eating locally grown honey will give you greater immunity against allergies (caused by locally grown plants).

Does it have to be ORGANIC honey?
Maybe not but we should have that choice.

Here's one way to expose a scam.
Take the money out of the equation and see what people do.

If you could have an unlimited, free supply of food, would you choose organically produced fruits, veggies and meats from the local farmer who loves his land, animals and crops, or would you choose the chemical and possibly genetically bastardized stuff from faceless and heartless corporations who care for nothing other than their profits and market dominance?

OK, I've loaded the question (a bit) but give me any either/or scenario without the financial equation and I'll bet that any conscious person is going to feel drawn to the stuff from Nature over the stuff from Machines every time.

Did you ever pick fruit off a tree and eat it right there and then?
Didn't it feel different? Didn't it feel special?
Why not trust your feelings, you have an intelligence there which is way beyond the feeble mind

PS. If you don't feel the difference of eating food straight off the tree or out of the ground, watch how children do it and learn from them.

Actually , I buy organic food not for the stuff it contains, but for the stuff it does NOT contain: Thousands of untested chemicals (E Numbers), pesticide traces and preservatives, chemicals not meant for Homo Sapient to eat.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by Sly1one

Every garden I have had, I have never used pesticides and more recently have only used organic fertilized soil via compost. The plants grew and I could eat them...its reallllly simple and really low maintenence and very lost cost...it is possible.

 

If you were not living solely off the garden, or mass producing food for millions of people, it is not comparable to reality in the slightest.

What a ridiculous statement. of course it is comparable it is just a matter of scale. And the fact the many people are doing it from gardeners to commercial farmers and all points in between proves it can be done.

So now crop, pests, geographical location and another hundred or so contributing factors to how crops are grown have no bearing on this discussion? Because you said so....


Right.