Whats with these arrogant people who think aliens are demons?

Originally posted by MasterGemini
Especially since the Atheists have already proven they know very little about religion when ALL they attack is the Roman Catholic God. Get a clue please, there are many books on religious history that can set you straight so you all stop embarrassing yourselves.

They're going after the thing that has the most unity because going for the throat is a kill shot.

The Atheists here are the ones coming in all condescending and insulting others' beliefs just to preach their godlessness like that nut on the street corner.

All people are arrogant, given something they firmly believe in. That is human nature. It takes a mind over matter approach (i.e., MATURITY) to avoid that behavior.

Originally posted by MasterGemini

Originally posted by BrnBdry
The people that believe aliens are demons are bible thumpers. Aliens go against everything they believe in and were taught about god and creation. But with more and more mounting evidence that aliens are real, they have to change their way of thinking, and their stories so that 1, people will still go to church and shell out money, 2, everything they've ever been taught was pretty much a lie, and they can't handle it so they twist information to fit the lies, 3, their way of living still has meaning, and 4, if aliens exist, they must be demons, cause that's the only thing that makes sense to brain washed simpletons who've been lied to all their lives.

Aliens are not demons. Demons don't exist. Aliens do exist. Everything these bible people believe in is fantasy. Invisable gods, invisable spirits, invisable demons, invisable heaven, invisable hell, invisable angels, invisable everything. Such a magical world.

Thing is, when I was a kid, and we thougt of stuff like that, it was called pretending. We imagined playing with an imaginary friend, or role played we were in a western bar and we did shoot outs.

Their whole life is pretending. Its an imaginary world. Why they cannot distinguish that from reality, is beyond me. People loocked up in looney bins have less of an imagination then these people.

edit on 6-9-2011 by BrnBdry because: (no reason given)

Any proof to your claims?

No, just conjecture and hate on religious folk.

Thanks for playing try again when you have something factual to contribute. . .

If they are really aliens then why was Jack Parsons of Jet Propulsion Lab performing rituals of Babylon then when he died in an explosion (still classified what happened) in 1947. Later in 1947 at the 33rd parallel came the UFO of Roswell. Phoenix lights at 33rd parallel. Animal mutilations (right because they need to probe cattle when they can travel through space) are another clue as to the nature of the beings. Why are all the NASA patches based off of hermetic and Rosicrucian/ free masonic symbols?

I think it is the Atheist who is confronted by the unexplainable nature of the encounters and due to their hatred of religion (should I jsut put Roman Catholicism since they are too stupid to identify other religions?) they must explain them all away as aliens.

edit on 6-9-2011 by MasterGemini because: (no reason given)

I don't need proof when common sense is there. But hey, keep living in your magical world of invisible things.

reply to post by BrnBdry


And you prove my point yet again. . . .

I even offered you evidence from the real world of science and space travel.

I would say you are the one living in a fantasy land when you start denying facts.

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by TheFlash
I used to try the same thing and in all the years that the Internet has existed never once did I ever see a religious person respond to such a message reply with \\\"My goodness! You are right! Thank you for opening my eyes! \\\" or anything of the kind.

Why should your posts gain that reaction? It's not like fervently non-christians ever post that to a Christian over their strongly oppositional beliefs, either. If your beliefs are so easy to change, then you have no reason to have founded your life-long behaviors on them. Your asking people to give up WHO they are when you challenge them, not merely what they believe.

Not at all. I was referring to people who choose to completely ignore facts, logic and rationality when discussing certain topics. For example, it is very easy to establish that the founder of the LDS Church was a false prophet a criminal, a con-man and a liar using that organization's own literature. Yet if you point out such facts to those who are a part of the organization they are able to sweep such facts under the carpet and stuck their heads in the sand about it. Many if not all religions are the same in many ways. The Internet is filled with volumes of research, inconsistencies, fallacies and other details disparaging just about all religions. Perhaps some are less susceptible to such inspection than others yet they all have problems. My point was that in my experience it is best to mind one's own beliefs and leave others to whatever they choose to believe.

Originally posted by chasingbrahman
Had you replaced the word "arrogant" with the word "elementary" as a way to portray their conclusions as those we would all have drawn 600 years ago, your post may have held the vitriol at bay. Then again, I kind of like replacing "arrogant" with "provincial" but realized it may be more argumentative.

No, this would have been more upsetting. There's nothing elementary about my reasoning capacity. While Aliens being anything from imagination, to other humans, to demons, to full fleged physical aliens from another world means not one thing to what I believe, or in Whom I have hope, to state that the belief in aliens being demons is elementary is belittling the reasoning level made by the academia who instigate this conclusion. There is nothing childish about correlating the two when there's so much to correlate. And while some of it may rely on the middle ages, there whole fields of this mess from people who believe that these two entities are the same that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Labeling things that do not belong to "primitive thinking" as such is a smear campaign. Calling someone an arrogant p*** just leads to the assumption that the poster is an elementary thinker, and it is much more easy to swallow other's inferiority than to accept an accusation-unfounded or fact.

reply to post by Caioneach


I think for me, the vast distances involved in space travel that the visit of one of theses races would only be for their own benefit not ours, thats simple logic.

Now with those distances, it leads me to shy away from these "ufo" or "aliens" as being actual extra terrestrial, either they have always been here (And therefore are in our myths and legends, perhaps higher dimensional beings, Angels/demons, faries, ghost, etc) or they aren't here at all (gov behind all ufo activity)

My family and I have seen several strange craft here in Perris Ca, near march air force, 4 people in my house hold have seen it, silvery craft, rounded in the back more conventional in the front, on two occasions we have seen it and it disappears in a clear sky. SO i am not closed to the idea of UFO, I just don't jump to the aliens thing due to the vast distances involved.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel
Granted, but humans don't go out of their way (as "ETs" apparently do) to hide their existence from the bulk of animal society, and we actively communicate with animals on a wide scale as well, to the point that - I would assume - if animals had any sort of global or societal governance of which to speak, we would be communicating directly with it.

Humans have what I would assume to be a fairly obvious heirarchy of governance, and by all official accounts, there hasn't been any sort of offical outreach to our leaders to disclose their existence and reveal it for all to be aware of. Granted, this exists in some conspiracy literature so could just be above top secret and covered up better than everything else, but I at least believe that actually EBEs as much more advanced than we are as they see would be able - and more than willing - to merely co-opt our communications and give us all a big shout-out. Not really any reason to assume they'd be too afraid or worried about the consequences since a) we can't really touch them against will, apparently, and b) all indications are that whatever-they-actually-are had no issues with doing so on a social level in the past, but they gladly seem to have involved themselves directly and pretty much openly with our leaders over the last several millenia.

Anything is possible though, I suppose. I will be the first to admit I know nothing, this is all just as I can try to reason it out.

Be blessed.

reply to post by Caioneach

...your religion that has been drilled into your head over and over...

I think you've answered your own question there really mate.

Let's put things straight though, not all religious people believe ET or Aliens are 'demons' (whatever they might be), in my experience it's only the ranting, dribbling extreme right / right wing of Christianity that claim to hold such a belief. I don't even think they know what to think themselves either!

I see it like this..they are basically afraid of losing power and control over their 'flocks' (as in mindless sheep), and fear ET will educate the gullible and directly lead to a loss of fear in the sheep, and thus loss of control for the overlords (and what they can get from the sheep of course).

A good offence is thought to be a good defence, and that is what we are seeing i feel.

As it looks increasingly likely official contact is on the near horizon, increasing vigour is being put into instructing the 'flock' not to listen to ET's, using what they always have done as a weapon of choice...fear and psychological manipulation.

reply to post by spikey


What about jack parsons?

Why do the religion bashers never address this?

watch how oversimplified you get. Oversimplified can be wrong.

Originally posted by petrus4
The explanation for this is very simple. If Christians don't understand something...literally anything at all...then their reflexive response is to assume that it is satanic by default.

Horse ploppy. That is THE LAST thing I conclude. Some Christians take courses in logic in secular colleges, like my father (another Christian), and then teach reasoning skills based upon logic from the pulpit (Dad's not a preacher, but he does teach adult classes in Church). There are plenty of those who are of thas nature, I admit. But what I find more annoying is when I lay out a fully logical set of reasoning, and all of a sudden some twit throws this same card that you just played (yeah, similar to "the race card") in my face WITHOUT using any logic at all. Then I get to reason them around their folly without upsetting them, or else I'm not going to get through to them at all.

Catholicism didn't concede that the Earth revolved around the Sun without a fight; so the concept of extraterrestrial life simply doesn't compute for most Christians at all.

Anoter horse ploppy.The Myth of the Flat Earth, for instance:

It comes as some surprise, therefore, to find that Columbus was wrong and his critics were right - not because the world is actually flat after all, but because at the time everyone knew it was a globe and were arguing about how big it was. The idea that the uncouth people of the Middle Ages thought the Earth was flat is an example of the myth that has been propagated since the nineteenth century to give us a quite unfair view of this vibrant and exciting period.
(...)
It is not difficult to see how the story of Columbus was adapted so that he became the figure of progress rather than a lucky man who profited from his error. According to Jeffrey Burton Russell here, the invention of the flat Earth myth can be laid at the feet of Washington Irving, who included it in his historical novel on Columbus, and the wider idea that the everyone in the Middle Ages was deluded has been widely accepted ever since.
The Real Flat Earthers
The myth that Christians in the Middle Ages thought the world was flat was given a massive boost by Andrew Dickson White's weighty tome The Warfare of Science with Theology. This book has become something of a running joke among historians of science and it is dutifully mentioned as a prime example of misinformation in the preface of most modern works on science and religion. The flat Earth is discussed in chapter 2 and one can almost sense White's confusion that hardly any of the sources support his hypothesis that Christians widely believed in it. He finds himself grudgingly admitting that Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Isodore, Albertus Magnus and Aquinas all accepted the Earth was a globe - in other words none of the great doctors of the church had considered the matter in doubt. Although an analysis of what White actually says suggests he was aware that the flat Earth was largely a myth, he certainly gives an impression of ignorant Christians suppressing rational knowledge of its real shape.

The entire Christian cosmology presupposes that humanity is at the centre of the universe. Refute that, and their entire model collapses.

Here's a basic concept in the Bible:

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

It is folly for a Christian to assume that their simple understanding of a matter is anywhere near as complex as what God did. It's too simple to believe that if humanity is the center of creation, then their home must be the center of the Universe.

IIt thus makes a lot of sense, that your average Christian doesn't want anything to do with the idea of extraterrestrial life.

Since the vast majority of christians I know do not fit your viewpoint, this statement is invalid. You got to remember that most Christians wouldn't visit a site like this or entertain thoughts like this because they don't want to wear a tinfoil hat. So, if you got a Christian who is willing to talk about Aliens, you're dealing with a fringer, NOT always a fundie. Now, if the conversation goes to: "I don't believe in extraterrestrial physical life because it opens a can of worms as to why they'd be subjugated to a dying universe, punished for our sins. It makes far more sense that this is a demon, human, or imagination." It does NOT mean that they're necesscerily set on this path. It jsut means that they're not going to get wildly imaginative over something that has not been proven a cold hard fact. You want to hear blind denial in that, go ahead.

*sigh* Not done.

reply to post by MasterGemini


This is one of the better posts ive seen on this topic.

I agree with what you are saying. Its a long shot, I know it but I think that TPTB are MUCH older than we pressume and probably have had some pull in historic events such as the crusades and other events to keep the world in order and blind to "a UFO presence".

Someone above me said that there is evidence that other civilatztions had contact with UFO's. flourished, then vanished. Sad we are being controlled and robbed of opportunities with other worlds

Their belief system simply doesn't have room for it.

Again, horse ploppy. We have Greek manuscripts that were written 2000 years ago, and Hebrew that is older. While the ammount of unification all the texts have is staggering (seriously, do a study), there are some things that don't translate well in scripture. 1. In the Greek, there's this thing called the Aorist tense. It roughly makes every action take the meaning of "eternally now". Take something like baptism and add that tense (which the greek does, on occasion) and you've got a word that means always now being baptised. A matter of more meaning than we get in the English. 2. Angel means messenger, so in Revelations, the Angel of the Church of Macedonia is literally the messenger for the church of Macedonia--which makes far more sense than a heavenly being, given the context of how letters were written to churches in other books. A matter of far less meaning than we get in the English. 3. Go look up the 7 deadly sins on Wiki. The original passage was mostly about causing division and lying, not these 7 evil things. Heck, Gluttony is not even a direct Biblical sin. This is an example of traditions becoming more imprtant than the source text. Apply ALL 3 possibilities to each and every single verse, and you can see that there's far more potential for diversity than most people would guess.

Whenever governmental authorities have spoken in confidence about not being able to engage in disclosure because of it causing an unmanageable panic, the reaction from Semitic monotheists, specifically, is primarily what they were talking about.

Prove it. Really.

Extraterrestrials are a good example of a concept which exists outside the Christian view of reality, and therefore cannot be reconciled with it, or accounted for within it.

As those who believe that Aliens are Demons point out, Demons aren't thought of as from this world, nor are angels, and most importantly, neither is God. Christianity is not blind to the concept. And as for things that aren't in the Bible not being reconcileable, that's horse ploppy too. You don't have to list every single thing by name to have it be included. You don't have to assume that everything NEEDS to be included. Alien existence is just that--Alien. And until these "creatures" come out the shadows and walk among men in such a manner as to remove all reasonable doubt, there doesn't have to be a decision on where they fit in a Biblical viewpoint--for all we know, they may be able to tell us book chapter and verse what they've got to do with a Creator God. Wait and see instead of wild speculation.

Another example is indigenous or aboriginal groups. Christians assume that it was impossible for indigenous societies to have any relationship with God before they arrived on the scene, so they likewise assume that any aboriginal person who hasn't heard of Jjesus, is automatically going to Hell, regardless of the sort of person they were morally.

Considering the huge dissertations the Catholic church puts out on how other faiths can be saved without being Christian, horse ploppy. Considering that Christianity neither forced Jews nor Greeks to give up the entirety of their culture (in scriptures) to become Christians, this is not so simple a picture. the most frank perspective is that, yes without Jesus, all go to hell, but not all are going to be necesserily bound by Christianity. Besides, look to the Ethiopian Eunic to see how little is really required before a Christian can go on their merry way. Yes, our job is conversion, but there's so much more to it than a simple black and white viewpoint.

Originally posted by TheFlash

Originally posted by CynicalDrivel

Originally posted by TheFlash
I used to try the same thing and in all the years that the Internet has existed never once did I ever see a religious person respond to such a message reply with \"My goodness! You are right! Thank you for opening my eyes! \" or anything of the kind.

Why should your posts gain that reaction? It's not like fervently non-christians ever post that to a Christian over their strongly oppositional beliefs, either. If your beliefs are so easy to change, then you have no reason to have founded your life-long behaviors on them. Your asking people to give up WHO they are when you challenge them, not merely what they believe.

Not at all.

I honestly figured this would be your reaction--a really healthy one.

I was referring to people who choose to completely ignore facts, logic and rationality when discussing certain topics. For example, it is very easy to establish that the founder of the LDS Church was a false prophet a criminal, a con-man and a liar using that organization's own literature. Yet if you point out such facts to those who are a part of the organization they are able to sweep such facts under the carpet and stuck their heads in the sand about it. Many if not all religions are the same in many ways. The Internet is filled with volumes of research, inconsistencies, fallacies and other details disparaging just about all religions. Perhaps some are less susceptible to such inspection than others yet they all have problems. My point was that in my experience it is best to mind one's own beliefs and leave others to whatever they choose to believe.

Not better, easier. It hurts to butt heads, and a lot of times, if you're not careful, you do far more damage to the person whom you are trying to reach. Giving up, while an option does nothing to fix my own erroneous beliefs, nor theirs. At the same time, there is a time to walk away.

Besides, attacking their leader first is not generally the best way to prune crazy beliefs.

Originally posted by spikey
Let's put things straight though, not all religious people believe ET or Aliens are 'demons' (whatever they might be), in my experience it's only the ranting, dribbling extreme right / right wing of Christianity that claim to hold such a belief. I don't even think they know what to think themselves either!

Not quite. I'm FAR more conservative than "the Religous Right",and in more conservative churches, I'd be called a flaming liberal. This is not a simpe 1 size fits all world.

For those engaged (or would engage) this thread, let me ask a few questions. I hope the OP won't mind...

*Basing our understanding of deity on those of the ancient human mind, is it possible that angels and demons are nothing more than an advanced, extraterrestrial species?

*Basing our understanding on the modern human mind, is it possible that extraterrestrials are actually angels and demons?


The thing here is that you can't really accept or argue against one without including the other. When it comes to conceptualizations, we are vastly advanced of our earliest ancestors. But when it comes to actual knowledge? We really don't have much more in our books than more pages of possibilities. We have a greater grasp of what MAY be, but we still don't have anything we can call absolute truth.

In fact, we can no more deny God and angels and demons today, than could have those in the Grand Inquisition denied ET. Anything we put forth must be accepted as concept based on interpretation of limited evidence that is then blended with an opinion that is guided by personality.

It's all loose as crap in a goose.

In sum, we are just not as smart as we like to think we are... and right at this moment, not particularly prepared to receive Christ or ET in person.

Cheers

They can be aliens and demons at the same time you know OP, and not all Abrahamic religions say that they come from hell, they'll end up there, yes, but I very much doubt they came from there.

To those trying to bash the Abrahamic religions saying that its followers cant deal with it, I would say on the contraray, their are a variety of beings talked about in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam that these "aliens" could fall under, as of now from what we know their actions and attributes fall in line with devils/demons/shaytans/etc, and if it's going to cause anyone panic it will be the ape'eists/atheists who will have to work out some ridiculous way to make this fit in line with their faith in evolution.

Also, according to Islam, these "aliens" are both good and evil(with the evil ones being the demons/shaytans), but the catch is the good ones dont ineract with our dimension, which obviously leaves human interaction with these "aliens" almost exclusively to demons/shaytans, and from research alot of this interaction(regadless of the form these "aliens" chose to take") is brought about by occult practices, e.g some freak invoking/conjuring them, of course these "aliens" dont only come when called, they have an agenda of their own.

I fear these "holier than thou people," who profess to be experts on demonology, than any extraterrestrial race that have visited our planet Earth.

The presence of vigilantism... of these so called "holy warrior's," need for the subugation and murder of people who they proclaim to be practitioners of witchcraft; as in certain parts of Africa, including the history of the early colonial period of the United States,> [witch burning,]< reeks of the savagery and wickedness of the human race.

Not to forget the - Spanish Inquistion, which relied on the faith that Earth was the center of the Universe.

Some of these so called, "religious experts," who think that man was created in Gods image; has lead to the enslavement of African Americans until the U.S. Civil War ended.

So now... some of these crazy religious "nut job's," try to portray ET's as Demons.

Give me a break. I'm not going to trivialize, or ignore the verbal threats that equate my faith in ET's, as in - Worshiping a demon or demon's that has an evil intent on the human race.

In fact... I equate demonology with racism, that portrays any living or inter-dimensional entity, that is not in the image of man as "evil."

I'll have to be wary, and be on the lookout, for these "HATERS," who profess to be "God's chosen one's," and that they feel "too hell with anybody else."


Foofighter's

Erno86

im amazed , as alway, ATS provide an infinite source of laugher

Aliens are demons, really .?

Do you think our planet is the only planet hosting life, in the universe ?

So, instead of thinking rationaly, you chose to believe in a less potential option named God ?

Lets get serious for a moment here, you can believe in your floating man in the sky, but please, stop makin the humankind looking like a bunch of pathetic losers, because of your religion.

ATS,why did you sunk to so low level standards....why ?

Originally posted by Erno86
I fear these "holier than thou people," who profess to be experts on demonology, than any extraterrstrial race that have visited our planet Earth.

The presence of vigilantism... of these so called "holy warrior's," need for the subugation and murder of people who they proclaim to be practitioners of witchcraft; as in certain parts of Africa, including the history of the early colonial period of the United States,> [witch burning,]< reeks of the savagery and wickedness of the human race.

Not to forget the - Spanish Inquistion, which relied on the faith that Earth was the center of the Universe.

Some of these so called, "religious experts," who think that man was created in Gods image; has lead to the enslavement of African Americans until the U.S. Civil War ended.

So now... some of these crazy religious "nut job's," try to portray ET's as Demons.

Give me a break. I'm not going to trivialize, or ignore the verbal threats that equate my faith in ET's, as in - Worshiping a demon or demon's that has an evil intent on the human race.

In fact... I equate demonology with racism, that portrays any living or inter-dimensional entity, that is not in the image of man as "evil."

I'll have to be wary, and be on the lookout, for these "HATERS," who profess to be "God's chosen one's," and that they feel "too hell with anybody else."

Foofighter's

Erno86

edit on 6-9-2011 by Erno86 because: added a word

You will, undoubtedly, find those stereotypes in every genre... including those who hate religion and anyone who embraces it.

That's part of the human condition... and there's no escaping it regardless of where you look.

Originally posted by AnonymousVan
im amazed , as alway, ATS provide an infinite source of laugher

Aliens are demons, really .?

Do you think our planet is the only planet hosting life, in the universe ?

So, instead of thinking rationaly, you chose to believe in a less potential option named God ?

Lets get serious for a moment here, you can believe in your floating man in the sky, but please, stop makin the humankind looking like a bunch of pathetic losers, because of your religion.

ATS,why did you sunk to so low level standards....why ?

edit on 6-9-2011 by AnonymousVan because: (no reason given)

What is the difference in believing in deity and ET?

Science cannot prove or disprove either so... for the moment, buying ET but denying God is no different than buying God and ignoring ET.

Both sides that deny one for the other are prejudiced by way of avenues of belief, not proof. Both sides then present as much logic, or illogic, as the other.