What Does Abortion Have To Do With Pro-Choice?

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by gabby2011

 

So based on your perception of life, you think that you (or mothers to be) should just go ahead and decide that the baby should die? What if you are wrong? I was a young teenager when my son was born and guess what? He's happy, healthy, very well educated and very much loves life. I'm all for being a realist (see signature) but it's damn arrogant, selfish, and in-humane to make a choice like that based on YOUR own perception of life.

edit on 6-9-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Its YOUR perception that all children will turn out happy and healthy as your son.... and I don"t feel I'm being arrogant and in-humane.. quite the contrary.. I think its humane to not put a young naive soul into a situation of poverty and dysfunction.... or even riches and dysfunction.

Originally posted by Charmed707
BH implied that a fetus is somehow violating their mother. I said a woman's body is not violated by the fetus itself in any case....but her rights to her body are in fact violated when raped and her egg was fertilized against her will.

No that is not what you said and that is why I responded like I did. Here is what you actually said.

Originally posted by Charmed707
BS. The only way a pregnant woman's body can be violated is if she had been raped.

Key word being pregnant woman. Like I said, read your post.

Ridiculous. Either abortion is murder or it's not. Don't be a hypocrite.

It is not. How am I a hypocrite?

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

I completely disagree. You didn't read the rest of what I wrote, just the first sentence? I see the political bias now.

I read the entire post. I did not think you needed me to quote the parts I did not care to respond to. Would you like me to quote your entire post anyway? Will that make you feel better? Disagree all you like. I read your post.

reply to post by Kitilani


You can easily look it up for yourself. You'd have to be extremely naive to think that greed wouldn't drive the 'selling' of abortions.

reply to post by Kitilani


You don't care to respond to it because you don't think parents should be held accountable and take responsibility for their actions, OR you don't care to respond because it conflicts with your political agenda?

reply to post by Kitilani

Open up that front door and get a big sign stating that you want all unwanted babies to come live with you. Otherwise you are just talking and that is why politics gets involved. It is all just a lot of talk

EXACTLY..

.and those who do put a sign..and take babies better not sexually abuse and exploit them..for their own pleasure...and profit.

Originally posted by Charmed707
reply to post by Kitilani

 

You can easily look it up for yourself.

So you cannot even pretend to back up what you say? Now I have to do your research to prove what you said is true?
Sorry it does not work that way. I do not believe you. I am not going to do your homework for you to convince myself I am wrong. Either you can back it up or you made it up.

You'd have to be extremely naive to think that greed wouldn't drive the 'selling' of abortions.

Please lay out for me the profit made by performing abortions by PP.
If it is such a money maker then why is it only 5% of what they do?

Hey, if you have to make up things to make your argument you already lost.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

You don't care to respond to it because you don't think parents should be held accountable and take responsibility for their actions, OR you don't care to respond because it conflicts with your political agenda?

I just do not care. There was really nothing else of substance that needed to be addressed and further, you had more than one point. Am I not allowed to address one point unless I address all of them?

You mostly seem hurt that your post did not get the attention you think it should. Instead of whining about it you could have just pointed out what was so important in that post for me to respond to.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


If it truly is a women’s right to chose abortion or not, then why isn’t it a man's right to chose to provide financial support or not.

Also since i don’t hear anyone mentioning the father being involved in these life and death decisions, then ... i refer back to the statement above.

This abortion thread is sick. Abortion is terrible. I think that we should be more active in prego prevention instead of cutting up organic matter or in some cases babies.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by YouSir

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I don't understand how some people can say that being pro-abortion means you are pro-choice and if you are against abortion you are not pro-choice.

Any attempt at an honest conversation ended with this "pro-abortion" nonsense. I have never seen a pro-abortionist in my life. Where can I get a flyer? Go to a meeting? Where do they protest?

Ummm.........planned parenthood?
second

YouSir

Ummmm NO.
Show me anything that states PP is pro-abortion. Do they advertise specials? Do they go out and ask pregnant women to come in and get an abortion.
Do you even know what PP does?
Abortion services is less than 5% of what they do.
So basically you are saying that because my hospital treats cancer patients, it is a pro-chemo hospital. No, it is just a hospital.
Try again.

Ummm.....I see that your familiar with that particular organization........been there much?
If they werent pro-choice another quaint little catchphrase for Pro-abortion.........they would'nt be edumacating children on the wonders of that particular experiance..............so.......Do they advertise specials?
Try to wrap your mind around this........if you perform abortions then obviously your FOR the procedure..........see.....not such a difficult concept to comprehend.................................next

YouSir

reply to post by Kitilani


Lol, I'm not hurt at all. You brought up the political spectrum so I touched on the sensitive area you were carrying on about. It's a little weird you don't care about the part you were crying about earlier, but oh well. Don't respond to it, I'll sleep just fine thank you.

Originally posted by Kitilani

BS. The only way a pregnant woman's body can be violated is if she had been raped.

What are you not understanding about this statement? Pregnancy itself does not equate to violation. If she HAD been raped, then her body WAS violated and she was impregnated against her will.

It is not. How am I a hypocrite?

You implied it was acceptable for someone to be charged with murder if they kill a fetus while at the same time advocating a woman's 'right' to abort a fetus if they wish.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by Kitilani

 

You don't care to respond to it because you don't think parents should be held accountable and take responsibility for their actions, OR you don't care to respond because it conflicts with your political agenda?

Do you realize how many babies are born to 12 and 13 year olds in third world countries..? They have no choice in their responsibility.. they had no choice into being sold into sexual slavery.. just as the mothers who sell them selves to the UN guards for food... because otherwise they have nothing to eat.. You make it sound like everyone has this free choice in matters of pregnancy, and its just a matter of taking responsibility for their actions.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Only if it is a fetus. If she gets cancer then all that talk of "choice" goes clear out the window. You tell me, if this thing growing within the woman is somehow a soulless chunk of tissue that only the host has a right to choose what happens to it within her body, why does it cease to be a choice when it is a clump of DNA damaged cells growing uncontrollably?

You can research all you wish, but any choice of alternative treatment to chemo and radiating the tissue will require a trip out of this country. Once you realize the hypocrisy, you realize the argument is void of meaning and only meant to quell the possibility of a moral awakening within consciences. Have a moral dilemma on your hands? Throw up a strawman argument to draw attention away from the crux of the issue. The ability to think critically seems to have been done away with many years ago.

reply to post by gabby2011


Well they made the "free choice" to have sex.*edit, in most cases, un-protected sex* Don't try to tell me that youngsters (and others) aren't fully aware of the implications. Unfortunately, the world can only take care of it's problems one step at a time. Just because there are serious issues in other countries all over the world isn't a pass for everyone to kill babies. Perhaps there are more deep seeded issues that should be addressed before considering that step.

Originally posted by Charmed707

Originally posted by Janky Red

You do realize that women have been having abortions since the advent of written history.

So? People have been murdering, raping, molesting children etc. since the dawn of mankind. What's your point?

Simple, women will continue to have abortions without your consent, regardless of how you feel about it.
Except in the case of your "futuristic", totalitarian dreamland, these women will die and suffer like they
did 10,000 years ago or 100 years ago.

Originally posted by Charmed707

What are you not understanding about this statement?

Apparently all of it.

Pregnancy itself does not equate to violation. If she HAD been raped, then her body WAS violated and she was impregnated against her will.

You said she was already pregnant. Do you believe pregnant women can be impregnated again through rape while already pregnant?

You implied it was acceptable for someone to be charged with murder if they kill a fetus while at the same time advocating a woman's 'right' to abort a fetus if they wish.

Did I now?

reply to post by Wookiep


I still want you to establish how you have authority over someone else's uterus and the contents?

Does that mean you are going to pay and be responsible for the choice you are making for someone else?

Originally posted by YouSir
Ummm.....I see that your familiar with that particular organization........been there much?

Yes I have.
Got a problem with that? Go for it. Let me hear it. Yes I have had a lot of medical care provided by planned parenthood and if it were not for the care I received, I would be sterile now. Thanks to them, I can have a baby if I so choose.

If they werent pro-choice another quaint little catchphrase for Pro-abortion.........they would'nt be edumacating children on the wonders of that particular experiance..............so.......Do they advertise specials?
Try to wrap your mind around this........if you perform abortions then obviously your FOR the procedure..........see.....not such a difficult concept to comprehend.................................next

YouSir

That was a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. Do you know what a proctologist is? Tell me, is it a health care provider or a Pro-ass person?

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Woman's right to choose (to kill the baby) is greater than the baby's right to live "IF" that is the woman's choice.

What is not understood?

It is that simple. You can paint whatever rosy picture on it you want but that is the bottom line. The unborn are not considered life if the "mother's" choice is that it isn't. Though if someone causes a mother to loose a baby, that is murder. But not murder if the "mother" wants to kill it off. No political agendas about it.That is the reality.

edit on 5-9-2011 by infolurker because: (no reason given)

I'm Pro-Choice myself, but listening to you makes me feel dirty. Why? Because to elevate ones opinion over anothers right to LIVE is the height of barbarism.

Try this on for a minute... Does a one day old child feel pain? Does it fear? Hunger? Desire? Yes to all those. It is a living thing. What about a preemie? Does it feel, want, fear, etc? Of course it does. So I have to conclude that a scientific miracle happens when the fetus meets air for the first time. Some sort of "breath of life" if you will, enters this human-less lump of fetal tissue and makes it a human. Does this sound familiar at all?

There has been great debate over when life begins, whether at inception, or sometime during gestation. In one fell swoop, you've reduced the right to choose to a right to kill for convenience sake. But if I reach out and kill your unborn fetal lump of goo, then I'm a murderer. Sorry. Can't have it both ways. It's illogical. At best, a person killing a fetus not their own should be charged with theft of jello or something, but it can't be murder, since it's ok for the host to do the deed.

Neither does it work to try to compare to property rights. We don't own our children, so we cannot own a fetus. Killing someone in your house is to kill a "someone", a human. To kill a fetus, according to our current legal system is the killing of something not human. IT does not have person-hood until it takes that magical first breath, or so we're made to believe.

Hypocracy? Yeah, I think there's some in there somewhere. We give more respect to a corpse than we do an unborn child. Surely, we have lost our way.