Americans please use your head - a post by an American -

This is a message to my fellow ATS users; there is another thread currently ongoing here on ATS that is in my opinion spewing forth ignorant idealism. This thread was created by a non-American for the sake of bashing the Government of America and gave such advice as just walking away to stop voting and to just drop out. Well actually as opposed to me just vomiting forth what he said how about I show you instead; please feel free to go read his opening post I will wait for you to come back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ok good well now if you have decided to return you at least know what I am talking about. I personally am not a fervent supporter of the current state of the American Government I think it is suffering from a serious case of corrupt good ol’ rich boy syndrome. I also think that that it is time for a change in how things are done here in the United States. That being said I cannot place the blame at least in all parts on the good ol’ rich boys, the problem itself resides at the feet of we the American populace we have become apathetic to the situation that we live in. This has been an ongoing problem for many many years. I firmly believe that to perpetuate change we must first educate ourselves and the masses.

But I digress this thread was not created at this point in time for me to “preach” about how I think we need to change the American Government this thread was created to talk about the previous thread that I linked too. In this thread our “valiant” OP goes on a rant about how elitist, corrupt, and otherwise despicable the American government is, and many people jumped right up on that band wagon and comment on how smart and right he was. That in itself is ok I have come to expect that from the people here on ATS and in the world. What I find damning is that this problem of the American government is also a problem of you guessed it EVERY GOVERNMENT IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!!!!! Dun dun dun. When comments such as this and other comments were posted on said thread they were politely ignored and passed over and left in obscurity, and to an extent that is ok. The real problem with the thread is that the OP’s advices for taking down this corrupt Government? To drop out to give up and go live off the land, that just sounds dangerous we here in America and I presume around the world are already lacking in educated people who are willing to devote the time it takes to watch our respected governments. The only thing keeping these said Governments from running rough shod over its respected country the attention of the people who will stand up and try to bring the news of said injustice to light.

Now dear reader I must confess I appreciate your time spent reading this thread I know at times it may seem that I am rambling on going on and on, but I hope that if anything you took these simple ideas out of my post, Pay attention to what your government is doing, stay educated as to your rights, Help to educate others of their rights and of the actions of the government and always above everything else Deny ignorance.

Thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

reply to post by crimsongod21


I had to say I couldn't have said it better myself.. Thank you for the thread.. S/F and keep the faith..

The second post by skepticonwatcher on that thread says it all.
here his post:

ROFLMAO.

Abandon my government ?

Don't vote ?

Me thinks you know way less about my country than you are letting on.



It doesn't work that way. You can't "ignore" a government and think that solves all of your problems. You use government for a vehicle of change. And the only reason , by the way, we say our country is the best is not because it's our country, but because it is the

WORLDS GREATEST SUPER POWER !!!

reply to post by crimsongod21


My only advice to the Americans is get out and vote in 2012. Hopefully, you'll use your head and not your emotions.

You gave a half black man a chance....well, that did'nt work for you. The answer is not a woman either.

Think very very carefully but keep in mind that from 2012 to 2015 not a whole lot will be accomplished due to the huge large debt left behind by the past two Presidents. The next 4-5 years are going to be the toughest the USA has ever seen yet.

Good thread Crimson. I agree with you completely.
We can't afford to ignore our government, we have to take the responsibility to change the government so that it is serving us, the people.
So you have to get out and vote. You don't have to vote for one of the two prevailing parties, you can write in your vote thereby expressing your true beliefs.
You need to contact your representatives often and let them know how you feel about specific topics. I know you think this is futile but if enouigh of us do it, it "might" actually make a difference.
A lot of people are bashing the tea party, but these people are actually getting involved in the political fray and pushing what they believe in. Like it or not, they are going about it the correct way, by changing the government by being an active influence on the government.

reply to post by fltcui


This is what i have to say about the Tea party, I may not agree with there political views or well from the few i have heard speak via the video box anything they say. I do have to admire the fact that they are creating a political movement they are going to be a force of change in America. Its simple math really 1 is less then 100, 100 is less than 1000, 1000 is less than 1000000. The more people who come together and form a cognitive political entity also known as a political party the more "power" said group will have. It really is simple i just dont understand how some people dont get it.

I think we in Europe are rapidly losing our faith in current system.

The average citizen has too many administrative layers above his head, there are too many agencies with legislative powers, too many regulations to CONSOLE.

We're voting to keep this going because the wars and dictatorships are still too close in our memories. That's what I perceive.

I cant speak for Americans or the way they feel the system is working for them and their ideals, but I can tell you we here are losing the poetry of ideals. Ideals are sadly minimum when you pay 5'5 months / year of your wage in taxes.

Politicians are appearing in #3 in polls where the main question is: What Worries You The Most?
The suckers get bronze. I mean suckers in terms of taxes.

The thread you refer to was a load of ideological nonsense. Ideologies sound great when they are spouted from a pulpit or writen down on paper. In reality its impossible to implement, just take a look at communism 'great on paper' in reality =94 million dead. The idea that the united states should revert to a nation of enlightened, educated, anarchist hippies living peacefuly off the land in their dome homes was just laughable to me, Even more laughable was the rush of gullible people queing up to congradulate the guy on his profound ideas. Albert Einstein was right when he observed: ''Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former''.

I agree with your general premise, and the problem is human nature in action, in government, that seems to cause the problems.

However, I have to say, we have our share of corruption and sleeze in Canada, but it looks like to me you can't benefit personally as much as an MP in a Parliment as you can as a Congressman. They system just doesn't work that way. You can pay me off, but I may just be a happless backbench MP who has little if any influence in a majority government.

What I read about pork-barreling and how much special interest groups can influence officials, its seems shocking.

Do you think maybe the system needs a bit of tinkering to put it back on path? Maybe curtailing amounts spend on elections, 2 term limits, and drastically cutting the amount a lobby group can give you may be a start.

reply to post by Ultraman2011


Ultraman you raise a few good questions. I do believe there are things that could be done to curb but not eliminate the corruption we see here in the states. I say curb and not eliminate due to the fact that we all are human (or well i assume anyways) therefore personal interest, personal gain, and hunger for power will always come into play.

I think the amount of money that is spent on elections is just sickening,

The 2008 campaign was the costliest in history, with a record-shattering $5.3 billion in spending by candidates, political parties and interest groups on the congressional and presidential races

Here is a link to the source and rest of the article
click me click me
With the kind of money being thrown around its no shock that small market or independent candidate’s dont stand a chance at making a real impact in elections. To reform this i think there should be a firm cap on the amount of money that each candidate and their supporters can spend during the election. The fine points of my 'theory" if you will have not been flushed out but you get the general idea.

Term limits are a novel idea though i think anyways a bit beside the point for what i would really like to see accomplished. I would rather see that people open there eyes and do a little research on the candidates then go out and make an informed decision. By just disposing of our elected officials on a matter of fact basis by setting term limits you would see a lot of people doing the same things the president does now, which is sit in office his first term and try not to piss any one off to bad so he can get reelected and do whatever the hell he wants after the fact because what does it matter he already can’t be reelected again.

Now what to do about lobby groups, this is a tough one for me as i belong to a group that does actively lobby the political types. I think the best way to deal with lobbyist groups is to regulate what they can and cannot do. For instance i think a lobby group should be a vocal organization not a monetary one. I think by limiting or completely cutting off their ability to directly fund a politician you could in theory limit the corruption stemming from such actions.

I do appreciate the input from a non-American looking in, i believe of all the people outside the US the people of Canada should have the best idea of what is going on here due to the close proximity and all the border jumping people do. You sir are a class act and i wish you well


Thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.

reply to post by Atzil321



I agree it’s amazing what looks good on paper, communism, anarchism, strapping a rocket engine to a car. Though unfortunately in reality these things don't work out so well in practice and that my sir is due to the human element. There is a never ending cycle on this world and goes something like this, Man creates power, power kills man rinse wash and repeat and so on and so forth.

Thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe.