Right-wing commentator: Poor people voting is ‘un-American’

reply to post by illuminatislave


No, but I do think they are conned into voting against their best interests.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Excellent post. It draws much needed attention to the careless dehumanization of the poor in our society.
The "unworthy poor", to be devalued and punished because of their circumstances, of which Beezer, nor anyone else on this thread has any knowledge. Of which Beezer, and his like-minded ilk presume to know, to adjudge, and to assign to the "unworthy poor" pit of hell, for their own convenience, consequently attempting to prove their most unprovable conjectures.

Generation poverty, ( I will make the presumption this is what is being addressed --unless of course, people have now stooped so low and become so ensconced with greed and resentment, they don't recognize even a "worthy poor"). is not a problem of the poor. It is a problem of the nation.

It is an extraordinarily complicated mess, and thousands of dollars are spent, and years of research spent, trying to ascertain the best way to end it. When studies are made, the first thing that is realized that the most foolish possible thing to do would be to "cut it off", cold turkey. This would result in complications which would be shocking to most people. So to say this is the way, is to singularly endorse one's own ignorance.

It's a case of "you don't know enough to know how much you don't know".

People here don't understand poverty. Real, generation poverty.

And having directed this at you, Spira, I have done so with the understanding that you understand it is not directed at you.

I will be curious to see how Beezer responds to your query, and hopeful it will have more substance than the "poor lack the work ethic".

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


The GOP appeals to the poor, uneducated white rural voters of the south using their love of Christianity, firearms, and racism/xenophobia to get them to vote against their own self interest. They have turned this group of Americans into shills for the elite's agenda. No different from those poor folks who vote Democrat and become shills for the elites agenda. Just like, as claimed in this thread, the democrats want to keep certain people on welfare to keep their vote, the Republicans want to keep those southerners blind, deaf, and dumb to maintain their vote.

So by the logic of some here, those people should not be allowed to vote.

This entire thread is stupid.

reply to post by whaaa


He is talking about Zero Liability Voters. He could have chosen his words a little better, but he is absolutely correct. In 2010, 47% of all Americans did not pay Federal income Taxes, so in other words they had no tax liability. If person "A" has no tax liability, then that person should not be allowed to vote on how person "B's" taxes are collected and spent. It turns out that most Zero Liability Voters are poor, but why should a poor person who depends on government entitlement programs in order to live and survive be allowed to have a say in the process of how the tax revenue that is used to pay for those programs is collected and spent? One of the main problems with America today is that the politicians at the federal level are only accountable to 53% of voters. Imagine how different (and better) things would be if they were accountable to 100% of the voters. In other words people that have no tax liability should not be allowed to vote.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Stopping poor people voting strikes me as very 'American' in a way.

Although not so much the 'poor' - but stopping those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting themselves a free lunch, is only commonsense....

Oh, then if we are going to stop "...those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting " we should include all banks, lawyers, politicians and corporate whores who are getting tax breaks and in many cases pay no taxes at all.

This is the very reason I no longer identify with the Republican party. It has become vindictive and elitist to the point that unless you are rich, you are nothing but "useless eaters" as Hitler refered to them. Both parties are dominated by facist elitists, IMO. To vote in US national elections is a waste of time. No choices.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by whaaa

 

He is talking about Zero Liability Voters. He could have chosen his words a little better, but he is absolutely correct. In 2010, 47% of all Americans did not pay Federal income Taxes, so in other words they had no tax liability. If person "A" has no tax liability, then that person should not be allowed to vote on how person "B's" taxes are collected and spent. It turns out that most Zero Liability Voters are poor, but why should a poor person who depends on government entitlement programs in order to live and survive be allowed to have a say in the process of how the tax revenue that is used to pay for those programs is collected and spent? One of the main problems with America today is that the politicians at the federal level are only accountable to 53% of voters. Imagine how different (and better) things would be if they were accountable to 100% of the voters. In other words people that have no tax liability should not be allowed to vote.

Okay, so when unemployment reaches an extreme level(if it isn't already, as they cook the numbers), you'll have a lot of former voters out of work and that means that they aren't paying taxes.

So these Americans who have worked hard all of their lives, but cannot find work now, should not be allowed to vote, correct?

reply to post by buster2010


That was my first thought "scumbag! "

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Stopping poor people voting strikes me as very 'American' in a way.

Although not so much the 'poor' - but stopping those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting themselves a free lunch, is only commonsense....

Oh, then if we are going to stop "...those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting " we should include all banks, lawyers, politicians and corporate whores who are getting tax breaks and in many cases pay no taxes at all.

This is the very reason I no longer identify with the Republican party. It has become vindictive and elitist to the point that unless you are rich, you are nothing but "useless eaters" as Hitler refered to them. Both parties are dominated by facist elitists, IMO. To vote in US national elections is a waste of time. No choices.

Absolutely! - corporate welfare is equally corrupting to the system - I am only using the Republicans as the lesser of two evils.

Originally posted by Elsek
Almost as dumb as saying black people shouldn't be able to vote.

That IS what he was saying. code language..

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


thank you Lady

(sometimes I hear Jerry Lewis in my head when I say that) :-)

People here don't understand poverty. Real, generation poverty.

Lady, they really don't - and to some extent none of us does. Each situation - each level of poverty is different - and all for different reasons

Something I've noticed often enough in my own life, with people I know personally, is that some of the people who speak out loudest against the poor came out of poverty their own selves... So, there is a very interesting psychological aspect to all this on top of everything else

I think much of the time people dismiss or judge the poor because they just don't want to think about it - they don't want to care. Or they don't know how

If you make poverty something the poor deserve - then there's nothing left to think about. If they earned their poverty - then you can do what needs to be done and not think twice about it

This is of course an extremely long conversation we could have :-)

The thing is, while all this is nothing new - I have heard this particular flavor of political nastiness bubbling to the surface more and more often recently. People are latching on to views they wouldn't have touched in the past and there's a feel of panic in the air - desperation. There are always people who will play to the fearful - and it's election time

Dehumanization can be a very effective tool

Originally posted by beezzer

Now you have folks like me. Tea Party, conservatives who want better for this "class". To get these folks off the dependence of government. To provide the oppourtunity for them to be free of governmnt dole.

Well go ahead and do it then? Who's stopping all you bleeding heart tea partiers from providing opportunity and helping people get free of govt dole?

By your example, we should cut the rescue rope before we pull someone up out of a hole.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Stopping poor people voting strikes me as very 'American' in a way.

Although not so much the 'poor' - but stopping those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting themselves a free lunch, is only commonsense....

Oh, then if we are going to stop "...those who are a drain or parasitical upon the system from voting " we should include all banks, lawyers, politicians and corporate whores who are getting tax breaks and in many cases pay no taxes at all.

This is the very reason I no longer identify with the Republican party. It has become vindictive and elitist to the point that unless you are rich, you are nothing but "useless eaters" as Hitler refered to them. Both parties are dominated by facist elitists, IMO. To vote in US national elections is a waste of time. No choices.

Absolutely! - corporate welfare is equally corrupting to the system - I am only using the Republicans as the lesser of two evils.

Two evils = two evils
NO choice. no hope.

Originally posted by romanmel


Two evils = two evils
NO choice. no hope.

Amen. This "lesser of two evils" nonsense is childish thinking.

When you settle between the lesser of two evils, the end result will still be the same no matter what.

Look at this list of names:

Bush
Clinton
Bush
Obama

Each of these men were considered the lesser of two evils and each ended up screwing the public harder and harder with each go around.

Screw that

Originally posted by illuminatislave

Originally posted by romanmel


Two evils = two evils
NO choice. no hope.

Amen. This "lesser of two evils" nonsense is childish thinking.

When you settle between the lesser of two evils, the end result will still be the same no matter what.

Look at this list of names:

Bush
Clinton
Bush
Obama

Each of these men were considered the lesser of two evils and each ended up screwing the public harder and harder with each go around.

Screw that

Agreed!

How can such a system reform itsself?

Posting in a Democrat thread - hey guys.....so all us conservatives are evil buggers, what do you liberal folk suggest to solve this mess - how do you eliminate poverty? Please tell me something that doesn't involve taxing the wealthy, take all their money, your still not going to solve this mess.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Posting in a Democrat thread - hey guys.....so all us conservatives are evil buggers, what do you liberal folk suggest to solve this mess - how do you eliminate poverty? Please tell me something that doesn't involve taxing the wealthy, take all their money, your still not going to solve this mess.

Try this:

Corporate taxes are cut in half for all "completely domestic hire" companies and eliminate corporate tax breaks on corporations who hire foreign workers.

Although flawless counts are impossible to come by – the transient nature of homeless populations presents a major difficulty – VA estimates that 107,000 veterans are homeless on any given night. Over the course of a year, approximately twice that many experience homelessness. Only eight percent of the general population can claim veteran status, but nearly one-fifth of the homeless population are veterans.

About 1.5 million other veterans, meanwhile, are considered at risk of homelessness due to poverty, lack of support networks, and dismal living conditions in overcrowded or substandard housing.

Source.

Is there anybody here who is supporting the 'anti-poor' side of the equation that has the testicular fortitude to state that if these vets vote they are un-American??? C'mon! They're poor after all!

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by ladyinwaiting

 

People here don't understand poverty. Real, generation poverty.

Something I've noticed often enough in my own life, with people I know personally, is that some of the people who speak out loudest against the poor came out of poverty their own selves... So, there is a very interesting psychological aspect to all this on top of everything else

Yes, the "pecking order". I see it too, and it always amazes me. It's actually quite disturbing, to see it in action.

I think much of the time people dismiss or judge the poor because they just don't want to think about it - they don't want to care.

This is the reason we see Section VIII housing projects typically located on the "outskirts" of towns, or strictly in already impoverished area. We like to hide them so we don't have to think about them, or see them.

If you make poverty something the poor deserve - then there's nothing left to think about. If they earned their poverty - then you can do what needs to be done and not think twice about it

I've heard in wars, soldiers give the enemy little "nicknames". "Gooks", for example. "Krauts". It's to dehumanize them so as not to feel so terrible about killing them. Same rule seems to apply here.

This is of course an extremely long conversation we could have :-)

Volumes.

The thing is, while all this is nothing new - I have heard this particular flavor of political nastiness bubbling to the surface more and more often recently.

True. It's called the tea party. Some seem to take pride in wanting to set the country back 150 years.

This country has struggled so much to become decent. To assist it's citizens, to provide for the needy, to give equality in all matters of the law. It's even written down for us -- " I mean, just read the preamble to the Constitution. It's the American way.

To advocate otherwise, is not very American. It's something completely different. It's making a giant leap backwards in time, to when only "property owners" could vote. Property owners at the time, being, of course, white males.

In fact to say this whole school of thought is " not American", is a soft position. I will go a step further, and say such ideologies are quite "anti-American".

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Posting in a Democrat thread - hey guys.....so all us conservatives are evil buggers, what do you liberal folk suggest to solve this mess - how do you eliminate poverty? Please tell me something that doesn't involve taxing the wealthy, take all their money, your still not going to solve this mess.

Try this:

Corporate taxes are cut in half for all "completely domestic hire" companies and eliminate corporate tax breaks on corporations who hire foreign workers.

Have nothing wrong with this, corporations shouldn't be able to get away with paying little or no taxes. They should be penalized for off-shoring jobs as well....why do people assume conservatives are against this? I am tired of government getting involved with the "too big to fail" - let em fail.

As to big brother welfare state, how long are we going to throw good money after bad. We have to stop doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.


reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Have you lived in one of those places?...and lots of talk, but little substance other then to insult.

How do you eliminate poverty?

and this entire argument is flawed in the first place, of course the poor would vote for more social entitlements and the rich would vote for less taxes and so forth....the system is ripe with corruption