A Dire Metaphysical Warning to all Atheists!

reply to post by aorAki


Sure, that makes perfect sense, because we only live once, in either case!

What's manifest and being made manifest here and NOW is all that matters in the end, regardless of whether it's framed in the present, or in eternity (as a present moment sandwich). It's all the spiritual "food" we need, since to be "food" for consumption, it has to be substantial or real.

Life must be lived, and if there is a God, he can only be lived, as it is, through us, in the form of our growing love, as an authentic self expression and not simply abiding by the golden "rule" to "try to be a good person" but to simply be one, for it's own reward, joy, and happiness, and evolutionary flow, treating life already as an overabundant source of bright new possibility already, not economically of course (necessarily), but in terms of our continued spiritual and psychological growth and development (evolutionary mysticism). This is the gnosis that can be arrived at from both perspectives, whether a person of faith or an atheist it makes no différence in the final analysis. Either way it's now or never.

Did someone say something about death? Forgive me my oversight.

In either event, what choice do we have but to live the life we already have. No need to project ourselves into eternity quite yet, but we'll get there, and already are there, but ONLY in the now. If there is to be an evolutionary "death and resurrection" it can only happen now, and the choice to retreat or to grow in love, is already before us.

Love. It's all there is. There is nothing else of any real consequence going on, presumably here there and everywhere! lol

Nothing else inspires or motivates otherwise, whether in the domain of nothing as the ground of being and becoming, or merely because there's nothing else really worth doing! In a vacuum of love, there is no humor no joy.

You know I like to call myself an "evolutionary Christian mystic" but what's the point of that, if I cannot simply be my truest and most authentic self, who seeks, like anyone and everyone, simply to love and be loved.


This then brings us to the love of Bhakti (Hindu), as an eternal expression of the infinite Godhead...

JUST KIDDING!

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

What if the source of all life is, as quantum physics would suggest, a realm or domain of limitless possibility, yet a person, in their mind and nervous system and in their heart of hearts is prepared to go to any lengths to deny the possibility of free will, creative possibility and altruism and are utterly convinced, to the very core of their being that such a thing simply is not and cannot be possible. Then that person's life sucks ass.

Ha! This guy nailed it, and me and my OT OP, already, near the beginning of the thread. Star for u darkbake!

darkbake. That's a really funny name, and perhaps synchronistically ironic, since something along those lines are what way too many Christian fundamentalists believe are in store for all unbelievers, a "dark bake". And here you turn up with a witty twist on the OP as a symbolic representation of "as bad as it gets"..

This is good news!

reply to post by jmdewey60


That mutual experience suggests, in no uncertain terms, that the non-local holographic, monistic idealist (consciouness is primary) worldview is the most congruent with reality as it is, even if it runs contrary to what we take for granted (assume) as "common sense".

reply to post by racasan


Ditto (see above post) with your experience also.

Amazing!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

That mutual experience suggests, in no uncertain terms, that the non-local holographic, monistic idealist (consciouness is primary) worldview is the most congruent with reality as it is, even if it runs contrary to what we take for granted (assume) as "common sense".

Yes, except for that small detail, that your OP already has been debunked by those of us, who know something about QM. But such minor problems aren't ofcourse going to stop you and make you rethink.

Always the answer first, the 'facts' can be arranged to fit it.

reply to post by bogomil


Then could you please explain such phenomenon within a strictly materialist monistic paradigm. Thanks.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by bogomil

 

Then could you please explain such phenomenon within a strictly materialist monistic paradigm. Thanks.

Why would I do that? I'm far from being a philosophical materialist, and even further from a reductionist such.

reply to post by thedeadwalkk


You find it stupid lol,well what you are saying is that also even more stupid

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You are basing some of your beliefs in a god on what happens on the quantum level. We don't call that world quantum logic, or even a steady quantum state, we call the things that happen at that level 'quantum weirdness'. This means that we don't YET understand it. Just because a wave turns into a particle when we try to measure it doesn't mean there's intelligence there. It simply means we haven't figured out why it does this - but we WILL figure it out some day. Any physicist today will say that when it comes to quantum knowledge, we are just babies trying to understand what that mooshy feeling is in our diapers.

reply to post by jiggerj


All I was really getting at is that the state of mind you hold and develop throughout your lifetime may determine it's state for all eternity where, paradoxically either way you only get one life to live. Thus if you become absolutely convinced that it's nothing but a purely material "thingness" our existence which simply ends at the point of death, because there's always a choice in the final analysis, you might just get your wish (especially if it involves steadfastly rejecting at any and all cost, any and all possibility of "God"), while others who developed the mind and heart for it, live on in eternity, from life to life without end, starting right now with nothing more than an open mind and a willing heart. That's "all"..

Edit: Re: The possibility of God...

The OP really must be understood in relation to this thread and it's premise (that nothing is forgotten and everything worthwhile, reintegrated, at all levels)

The God Theory.

I guess what I'm saying is that the hardened atheist might be prepared to box himself into a corner of isolate consciousness, relative to everything else and disappear down an atheist foxhole.

However, the invitation of Christianity is just that, an open invitation, it's not coercive, so somewhere in the mix I am convinced that there's an excellent joke to be had even by the atheist capable of saving him, provided on only one condition, that in the final analysis, he maintains an open mind.. (can you see the possibility for humor here?).

reply to post by NewAgeMan

(can you see the possibility for humor here?).

Oh I see the possibility for humor in all of it.

So far the story goes something like this:

There is an all-knowing, all-powerful, invisible being who created the whole universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die. Now this being impregnated a virgin that gave birth to a son who allowed himself to be murdered by humans so that the sins of all humans could be forgiven (instead of just setting a date when the forgiveness of sins would start).

However, the one condition is that one needs to believe in Jesus because he is the only way into heaven, even though billions and billions of people throughout the world had died never hearing of him.

And if we do get to heaven we can earn angel wings so we can fly around while singing praises to this god for all eternity.

It's all just one humorous thought after another.

reply to post by jiggerj

If you think that smug reply was funnier, you're sadly mistaken, and I'm sad to see that you missed the real joke. It's not surprising however in the least.

Like I said, you'll hold it that position at all cost, and if you ever encountered the living God you would mock him and try to place him in the docket.

So little has changed from Jesus' day.

And no I'm not a literalist fundamentalist, so what you reiterated there isn't entirely congruent with reality.

You assume too much, the atheist does, much too much - how arrogant you are in your ignorance and blindness to the truth.

-------------

The truth, is that we've all been punk'd by God in the most magnificent and unexpected way imaginable.

Originally posted by troubleshooter

God's Conspiracy is to blindside the wise, learned, mighty and noble...
...and most of you have been punk'd.


God first said He would do this through His prophet Isaiah who wrote in the 8th century BC...

"...behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." Isaiah 29:14


Paul quotes from Isaiah in his first letter to Corinth (one of the undisputed letters of Paul)...

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent (learned, intelligent). 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Corinthians 1:19-20


He did it by turning the human notions of wisdom on its head...

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:" 1 Corinthians 1:26-28


God designed a way to reveal Himself that would be rejected by the world's best and brightest...
...and it is still blindsiding those who think they are special because of wealth, education or power.


How did God punk most of you?

He revealed Himself as a babe, conceived and born in scandal...
...as a man He healed the sick, sided with the oppressed and raised the dead...
...He opposed the religious and secular elite...
...who executed Him for telling them who He really was...
...but He then turned this corporate murder into a victory over death itself.


Paul said it like this...
"...the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."


Your responses will reveal whether you have been punk'd by God or not.

Furthermore, you've missed out on the real meaning and significance in regards to what it also says about us as human beings in terms of our true place and stature in the creation standing next to (at the right hand of) the Godhead (see The God Theory for more).

"God has given you a spirit with wings on which to soar into the spacious firmament of Love and Freedom. Is it not pitiful than that you cut your wings with your own hands and suffer your soul to crawl like an insect upon the earth?”

“The deeper that sorrow has carved into your being, the more joy you can contain.” (Gibran)

Let us, most of us, never forget the man of sorrows, who's joy is only completed, with us, completing our joy, and his, in a circle of joy capable of altogether transcending the sorrow, the suffering and the vicissitudes of willful human ignorance, and with a hand of love and laughter capable of wiping away the tears from our eyes.


Happy New Year to one and all,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You assume too much, the atheist does, much too much - how arrogant you are in your ignorance and blindness to the truth.

Atheists assume too much? Too MUCH??? EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING the religious believe in is based on assumption. Not one shred of evidence, but there can't be a shred of evidence because it's all based on faith.

Atheists are arrogant? REALLY

reply to post by jiggerj

Well for starters this IS the "Religion, Faith, and Theology" forums, and all I had suggested was necessary as a starting point of an initial approach to the subject was an open mind and a willing heart, nothing more. Yes, you make a whole lot of assumptions, for all you know there's a rational basis for faith based on testing and self-realization or self-knowledge aka gnosis (although I have to warn you it's invisible, like most of the best things in life are), but you're closed off from it even as a possibility prior to any form of open minded investigative inquiry, so yeah, assumptions. Also, in case you didn't notice I'm trying to be of assistance and service here in this thread, the aim being to generate an open minded and open hearted disposition on your part, even if that meant your feelings might be hurt a little bit in the process. It's you who are here in these forums and participating in this thread, surely there's a reason for that..

"There is a principal which serves as bar against all information and proof against all arguments, and one which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principal is called - contempt, prior to investigation."
~ Herbert Spencer, Scientist

And if there was an immensely humorous and loving joke to be had in the simplicity at the far end of complexity, even if it was told at the expense of all your prior "cratchetyness" and all your assumptions and presuppositions, and prior ignorance, such that the scales would fall from your eyes in an epiphany of the farthest reaching significance and proportion, or in the truth that sets us free, would you respond with a "bah humbug" and hold to your position, or would you not seek it out until you "get it", even if in the process of grasping it in the humor of understanding, you might be transformed and never be the same again? It could very well be that the hardened atheist is more than just a healthy skeptic, but a small-minded coward incapable of opening himself up to a whole new domain of possibility on the very ground of all being and becoming ie: dead to the possibility of a new creation, a new mind, a new heart, and a new life, a life filled to overflowing with a triumphant joy capable of altogether transcending that which made him hardened and cratchety to begin with, and which contains imbedded or enfolded within itself the very real possibility of eternal life, starting right here and now..

Yes, you make a whole lot of assumptions, for all you know there's a rational basis for faith based on testing and self-realization or self-knowledge

There is no rational basis, my friend. Period. If there was even a sliver of logic to it we would find it, but if there was anything rational about it then you wouldn't need faith. Self-realization and self-knowledge should teach us (help us realize) our place in THIS world, and self-knowledge would be the acceptance and complete understanding of what it means to be human - not some spiritual make-believe entity that, even if it were true, would have no purpose HERE and NOW.

Too many 'believers' focus on the question of 'What is god and what does he want from me?' They never ever take the time to find out 'What is a human? What are his limits? What should I be doing as a human? How can I be of service to my fellow man without losing my own identity?'

I can only love you with the limits of my humanness. If you sin against me once I could forgive you. Sin against me twice and I may be able to tolerate it. But if you sin against me three, four, five times, then I would be lying if I said I could forgive you. It's not that I wouldn't want to, it's that this is my human limit of forgiveness. In order to constantly forgive you I would be making a fool out of myself, and I would lose my identity. I am not a sheep. We are not sheep. We are not better than this.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

(although I have to warn you it's invisible, like most of the best things in life are),

Invisible? I can see the love and trust in the bright innocent eyes of a child. I can feel it through the warmth in a hug from my wife, sister, mother... The bond between friends can be experienced when the chips are down and these friends are always there for me, and I for them. When I hear the music of human artists, when I see their paintings and sculptures and acting, and when I witness man's accomplishments, such as flying into space, the creation of our technological marvels, of an underdog winning against all odds... These things are wonderful, and far from invisible.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It's you who are here in these forums and participating in this thread, surely there's a reason for that..

Sure, though mostly for the chat, there is an underlying agenda to turn people away from what simply cannot be proven, that has no basis whatsoever in fact, and what has always been a plague on mankind. Good people can do good deeds without a god. People can overcome addictions without believing in a god if they understand that their addictions are a sin against mankind, that their addictions hurt people - not a god.

I am here to tell you that no god had anything to do with the deaths of those 20 children in school. Man did that. In the same turn, no god feeds the hungry or heals the sick. Man does that. No god killed 300,000 in a tsunami, just as no god compelled a policeman to buy boots and socks for a homeless man.

Just as we must one day tell our children that chocolate milk doesn't come from chocolate cows, these are the times when people like me must tell you that there is no god. There isn't even a need for a god. We are it. In this vast tribe of humans, I must answer to you and you must answer to me. This system only fails when we believe we don't have to do anything because everyone must answer to a god.

reply to post by jiggerj

And what if God is love, and the very reason for the creation including us, is to realize something of that same love?

My God is much much more mysterious, loving and funny than you realize or are even willing to consider (that's funny too).

Anyway, to each his own.

Happy New Years!

NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

And what if God is love, and the very reason for the creation including us, is to realize something of that same love?

My God is much much more mysterious, loving and funny than you realize or are even willing to consider (that's funny too).

Anyway, to each his own.

Happy New Years!

NAM

A god is not love. You are, in human proportions.

Happy New Years to you too!