Fahrenheit 9/11 Propaganda or fact?

I just back from watching this 'documentary' at it made me loose faith in Michael Moores credability.

Even though I have no facts at my disposal against what he says (and most people don't, so what he says "must be true cos it won that award in Cannes") I have a strong feeling not all the facts were given. You don't make a serious argument or thesis without describing and using information that could disprove your side and then tackle it in a sane and reasonable matter (called the antithesis). At no point were the government given the chance to retort to any of the claims.

Of course GWB is gonna stay seated for 13 minutes after finding out about the Towers, who the hell wouldn't be stunned that the heart of the financial district of your country is under attack? Plus he is around little kids who don't generally react to panic well. You can clearly see that he is distressed and trying to think what can he do.

One last thing, was any of this movie censored for any others who have seen it? Not long after it started there was a minute of black screen and just audio of people screaming, then it faded into an african american woman in panic over the WTC, was this intential or something the retards at the OFLC censored because seeing the footage again on a big screen may instill a panic?

I am an Australian and have no real bias towards any side in the US Presidental Election by the way.

PS, what happened to the Fahrenheit 9/11 section that was here not long ago, I didn't see it and had to post in this section.

FLAME AWAY!

i suppose it was an ok doc, like his others, but it is unfortunatley, for moore, a mix of propaganda, and stuff that we already know. he doesnt like bush or the bushadmin, ok, we get it already, move on. next please. dfh out.

I liked f911. Most (if not all) of his claims are fact, but it is a satire piece...he did it in a comical way which makes people a little confused.

The World According to Bush is another fantastic doco on the bush admin, the saudis and israel which was supposed to be shown at canes this year but they could only have one bush documentary, and they chose F911 over it...which i think was a huge mistake.

Look for it on the internet if you can, part 2 is only available online atm, it is the best, most professionaly done documentary on the bush admin that takes views from both sides i have ever seen.

Originally posted by Ezekial
One last thing, was any of this movie censored for any others who have seen it? Not long after it started there was a minute of black screen and just audio of people screaming, then it faded into an african american woman in panic over the WTC, was this intential or something the retards at the OFLC censored because seeing the footage again on a big screen may instill a panic?

I got that too but when watching it I felt as though Moore intended it to be like that. When there is nothing to watch, people might start to think about what they were doing on that day or how bad it must have been there.

PS, what happened to the Fahrenheit 9/11 section that was here not long ago, I didn't see it and had to post in this section.

It's gone and was turned into the Campaign 2004 Issues forum.

[edit on 22/8/04 by Hyperen]

He may use facts, but he twists them in a way to paint the picture he wants people to see.

I remember someone telling me that in Bowling for Columbine...in the scene where he goes to the bank to sign up for an account (getting a free gun with it), he actually came back a week later, after they did extensive background checks and all, wearing the exact same clothes. The edited the film in a way to make people think this all happened in one day.
"Hey, it's really that easy to get a gun in America!"

Clever manipulation is about all I can call it. Can anyone else back this up? I'm only acting on what I've heard, so I'm not saying it's fact. Could very well be true though. What do you guys think?

I didn't think it was THAT bad when I first saw it, apart from the second half which I thought was boring.

Here is a pretty good site dealing with a lot interesting things found in the 'documentary'. 59 deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11. It's quite a long read though

Thanks for the link Phayce, I was looking for that site.

If you go to Michael Moore's website you will find the answers to the 59 deceits and also the fact that many things brought up in the movie are now being supported by the 911 commission. I think a lot of people here are disappoited in the movie due to the fact that most people here already knew a lot of the facts from coming here and getting mor e than just the average news, but the everyday American did not know a lot of what is in the movie. The 1 or 2 minutes of black screen with just the sounds is what I saw also here when the movie first opened. It is part of the movie but I don't know why Moore did it this way. Maybe he did not want to be accused of capitalizing on that horrible day.

Originally posted by Ezekial
One last thing, was any of this movie censored for any others who have seen it? Not long after it started there was a minute of black screen and just audio of people screaming, then it faded into an african american woman in panic over the WTC, was this intential or something the retards at the OFLC censored because seeing the footage again on a big screen may instill a panic?

I was not censored. That was one of those dastardly liberal editing techniques to show the real impact of 9/11 in the faces of others. Not the shock & awe media footage used by some to inspire a nation to war.

I liked his 'documentary' but a lot of it is far from fact, a lot of the stuff in the film were just his opinions on Bush and his administration, he tried to make Bush look like a fool by just selecting certain footage of him then mixing it up.

I laughed so much when reading in a film magazine that Quentin Tarantino who was one of the judges at the Cannes film festival called his documentary a "Critical Film Essay" lol. Just like people on here have mentioned, a lot of the stuff he was said was already known by most of us, he was trying to 'educate' the average American who didn't know those facts.

When you look at Michael Moore you can tell he is one man who has a serious vendetta again Bush and would probably stop at nothing to get rid of him.

I having seen his two other 'documentaries' but Fahrenheit 9/11 certainly didn't alter my perspective on things, which was the intended effect.

I didn't think it was THAT bad when I first saw it, apart from the second half which I thought was boring.

Here is a pretty good site dealing with a lot interesting things found in the 'documentary'. 59 deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11. It's quite a long read though

ok, here ya go :www.michaelmoore.com...

that should prove the facts. Moore didnt make it up. Thats republican spin cuz their skeered

Originally posted by Ezekial
GWB is gonna stay seated for 13 minutes after finding out about the Towers

Actually, it was 7 minutes. During that time the Secret Service were
getting his evacuation ready, communications set up, etc.

(I think the entire school should have been evacuated. At that
point they thought President Bush was a target (he wasn't, but
at that time they thought so). If they thought he was a target,
the kids should have been gotten out of there).

Anyways .... it was 7 minutes that he was there. Meanwhile, Kerry sat
and stared at fellow dems for what ... 40 minutes? Then the Pentagon
got hit and they heard about the White House evacuating.
That's when Kerry decided to do something.

******************
F911 is just fantasy garbage propaganda.
Nothing more, but perhaps even less,

Anyways .... it was 7 minutes that he was there. Meanwhile, Kerry sat

Kerry wasnt THE PRESIDENT. Umm I think it was time to go. Me personally, I sat there for days watching CNN. Im competent. But as soon as I saw it, i started calling my parents and stuff. Not much, but I did do something.

It is a travesty that Moore's film is called a documentary. It is an even greater travesty and an indictment of the film industry that Moore received awards under the rubric documentary.

This is the academy's definition of documentary:

"The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences: An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction."

Many have argued that Moore's film better meets this definition:

"[T]he spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person; ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread."

This is the definition of propaganda.

Hey this is sorta off topic.. but does anyone here have that movie on their desktop or know a link to download a good quality version of the movie?

Thanks!

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It is a travesty that Moore's film is called a documentary. It is an even greater travesty and an indictment of the film industry that Moore received awards under the rubric documentary.

This is the academy's definition of documentary:

"The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences: An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released non-fiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction."

Many have argued that Moore's film better meets this definition:

"[T]he spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person; ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread."

This is the definition of propaganda.

Oh come on the only reason you dislike the film is because what he says is true and it reveals your precious president Bush for the fool he is. The film is basically a slightly altered and updated version of, 'Dude, Where My Country', in the book Moore shows where all his sources come from. Maybe you should read it and wake up and realise that the country you fought for is run by a corrupt idiot who is systematically conquering the Middle East country by country and must be stopped.

Originally posted by Eddie999

Oh come on the only reason you dislike the film is because what he says is true and it reveals your precious president Bush for the fool he is.

Oh come on, the only reason you like the film is because what is says is false and exalts the principles of your precious Lenin.





[edit on 04/8/22 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Oh come on, the only reason you like the film is because what is says is false and exalts the principles of your precious Lenin.

[edit on 04/8/22 by GradyPhilpott]

Well thats odd. I didn't hear Moore quote any Lenin, or any other communists for that matter (other than Orwell at the end, and he was more of an anarchist anyway.) In fact, I don't think Lenin is mentioned at all.

And the information presented in the film is not false either. Have you actually seen the film or are you just another one of those right wingers who hate the truth about themselves being revealed?

Imho a documentary is something that reveals an aspect to something to people that are unaware of it, to make them aware of it so they can go their own way in a search for truth.

A movie like docu can't have all the facts and reference material included, because in most cases that would cause the displaying of thousands of clips and documents for viewer review, resulting in a days, if not weeks runtime length.


When you watch docu's like MM's, David Icke, Alex Jones, RNN and all the others out there, you shouldn't watch it and then say to yourself "oh now I know all there is to it" They don't intend you to think you know all about the topic when you watched it, they intend to open your eyes so that you can verify facts presented to you and continue research on the subjects.

Check out the book "Michael Moore is a Big Fat White Man". Good read.