Miami Police shoot, kill man carrying toy gun

I'll remember to duck and hide next time I'm looking for a person with a gun in the area... Then I'll let him shoot at pryingopen3rdeye, thisguyrighthere and Flyer to confirm that it's not a wallet, pager, and to make sure the gun is real before firing at the person...

Oh wait... Then they won't be happy with me and my fellow officers because we wouldn't have done our jobs protecting them... No worries, they'd probably be dead anyway...

Thanks for the armchair law enforcement lesson people... I'll keep it in mind next time I deal with a high risk situation...



Magnum

Originally posted by Magnum007

Thanks for the armchair law enforcement lesson people... I'll keep it in mind next time I deal with a high risk situation...

Magnum

no problem. use a tazer for what its made for and you wont have to deal with armchair law enforcement. i swear one of their first marketing strategies was "u can use this little device to incapacitate people you would normally have to fire upon" but hey... its not like every officer has a tazer or anything...and not like that tazer is strapped to their belt and just as accessible as your sidearm, thats just a conspiracy theory.
guns are more fun anyway

reply to post by Venomilk


Perhaps range may have had something to do with why they never used one..

reply to post by Venomilk


Stop talking, seriously. Your hole is getting deeper.

Do you know the range of a tazer? How about the range of the rifle the guy had (if real)? I would guess, wait, I actually know, that a tazer has a slightly shorter range than a rifle. Ok, much shorter. A tazer isn't always the answer, so please consider there are other scenarios that happen other than the scenario you have worked up in your mind why this officer was at fault.

Originally posted by StarTraveller
reply to post by Venomilk

 

Perhaps range may have had something to do with why they never used one..

Beautiful! Thank you for posting that, while I was typing the same thing! Great minds.......

reply to post by StarTraveller


and that may be the case, but we dont have that info, and probably never will.
ive got this hunch that wasnt the case. i am all for the police actually protecting, but this story stinks like many others.

now if they have dash cam footage, it could settle it. maybe then you actually see him point it, but untill then there has to be a better way of dealing with it. the range keeps getting longer and longer as well. especially with the new shotgun tazers.

on top of that, they said he was walking down the sidewalk, so its safe to assume that the cop either pulled up behind him, on his side of the street, or in front of him on the other. range is still no problem in this situation.
now if they stopped 100 feet away from him thats a different story, but what cop gives a suspect 100 feet of room before telling him to drop his weapon?

again, it stinks

Originally posted by ChachiArcola
reply to post by Venomilk

 

Stop talking, seriously. Your hole is getting deeper.

Do you know the range of a tazer? How about the range of the rifle the guy had (if real)? I would guess, wait, I actually know, that a tazer has a slightly shorter range than a rifle. Ok, much shorter. A tazer isn't always the answer, so please consider there are other scenarios that happen other than the scenario you have worked up in your mind why this officer was at fault.

and if he came anywhere within 35 feet of the man, he is at fault. i dont know if he did, but im not just going to say, well, they thought he had a gun, so they killed him, problem solved. oh, it wasnt a real gun, but couldve been. so dont you feel safer? ill wait for the dashcam footage to leak, then we will see who is digging a hole

reply to post by Venomilk

Come on, you are just making one assumption after another here. I get it, you think this guy was in the wrong for shooting the poor disabled man. Ok, I feel bad for the guy too. But take some other factors into consideration, and stop trying to immediately vilify the officer. You know, I can pretty much assure you that plenty of cops have been shot by disabled people before. Just a thought for you!

Oh, and I love the fact that you are on this rant, with an avatar with a rattle snake with a Gatling gun in place of the rattle on his tail. The irony......

At the end of the day and has been said many times in this thread, none of us have the information needed to give a definitive answer to what happened or what should have happened. Yet some still feel the need to argue/insult etc even with this in mind.

We are all just throwing it out there for discussion and consideration but this doesn't mean we turn on each other.

Together we stand united, divided we fall and all that..

reply to post by Venomilk


So I use the Tazer and the headline would read :

"pig tazers disabled guy for no reason just because he is full of anger and his gun jammed"

There's no pleasing people like you... This is why I keep doing what I am trained to do...

don't point a weapon at the police and you don't get killed...

reply to post by Flyer


Title is misleading.
Not city of miami. City of north miami beach.
Totally different police force.

reply to post by areyouserious2010


If the police werent behind cover then they were even more stupid than I thought they were.

Fact is, they killed a disabled man who was putting his hands up to surrender according to a witness.
There was no threat.

reply to post by ChachiArcola


im not trying to villify him, we all make mistakes. i didnt jump in with the whole," all pigs are powertripping lunatics," i know better. but i know we as people make mistakes, especially when afraid. im not making outlandish assumptions either. i know they didnt have a shotgun taser, but also know they had an m-26c, so unless he was scared and only trusted his sidearm, or never came within forty feet, hes not exactly in the wrong.

he would probably regret it, but wouldnt be in the wrong. but we dont know the details, so really all we can do is look at the possible situation.

i also made the assumption he pointed it at the police too. (after all, if he has a childish mentality, he may have seen it as a game of cops and robbers. its one thing to assume that something happened, its another to look at the possible reasons it did. the possible reasons he chose bullets, not prongs. or possible reasons the man didnt drop his gun

hell, he couldve been TRYING to kill himself by cop. after all, you get cops called walking around pointing what looks like a gun at peoples dogs and such.

we dont know. but thats no reason to say that the man was innocent, or the cop was wrong.. or whatever. but theres a higher probability that it was a bad decision on both parts than one being more to blame than the other. i just hold those in law enforcement at a higher standard of decisionmaking than a mentally retarded man.

to magnum.... good, do what you were trained to do, you are supposed to. im not one of the anti police pricks that frequent these stories as this post should show. if you go around tazing random people thats not right, u use it in a situation that prevents you from shooting someone and people will feel much better about it.
theres always gonna be the people that hate anything that even resembles authority, but dont be so quick to put people in that category. let them slander you for tazing someone that needs it... you are the one that knows you had the mans life in your hands, and let him keep it

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by Flyer

 

Title is misleading.
Not city of miami. City of north miami beach.
Totally different police force.

you have to quote the original article title, that was the title of the article.

reply to post by Magnum007


A perfect example of a shoot first think later stupidity of the police.

I wonder how youd feel if a fellow moron did the same to one of your family.

reply to post by Flyer


is his family posing a threat? if so, go for it. untill then, you dont know if he put his hands up, or put his sights on the cop.
now if a cop did this to his family, they would probably be smart enough to drop whatever the supposed "weapon" is
if he really did put his hands up, thats a different story, but theres no proof yet. even eyewhitnesses have agendas, and are some of the most untrustworthy sources of "proof"

ease up

Originally posted by ChachiArcola
reply to post by Venomilk

 

Oh, and I love the fact that you are on this rant, with an avatar with a rattle snake with a Gatling gun in place of the rattle on his tail. The irony......

edit on 9/1/2011 by ChachiArcola because: Spelling

edit on 9/1/2011 by ChachiArcola because: Irony

and a house full of guns too, but not everyone sees life as disposable, even if you own guns, not if you can help it. i hope the police did all they can to prevent a shooting, but that doesnt mean guns are bad, at no point did i even imply it.
i was stating you need to think a bit more before you use one, or you get issues like this
which will still be investigated and dealt with

now judging people based on what their avatar picture is? i like westerns, guns, and milking rattlesnakes every other day. this picture suits me, so get off it. a personal attack doesnt strengthen your point, whatever it was

reply to post by Venomilk


Nice, you got wriled up! That is what I was hoping for! Really, I said your avatar was ironic. That in no way is a personal attack, but thank you for taking it that way, I think. I am glad you value human life, guns, and milking snakes. Thank you for the info.

Oh, and just to clarify, that M26c has about a 15 foot range, not 40, so you might want to rethink the range factor, again.

www.beststungun.com...
www.selfdefenseproductsflorida.com...

But hey, whatever makes your arguement better, right?

Originally posted by Flyer


He was mentally disabled and they murdered him. Another example of the shoot first, think later by the police.

Cant the police tell the difference between a toy and a real gun? They couldnt tell a man was disabled?

Yet another shoot to kill policy. This is why people dont trust the police, how can they when the go around shooting innocent people and the disabled,



www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

My Lord man, really? If your faced with a man, disabled or not, pointing a gun at you what would you do? How are they suppose to know the gun is real or not, are you willing to take that risk?

This is a tragic accident brought upon this man because of his actions, him being disabled makes it all the more tragic but no less an accident.

Originally posted by EnigmaAgent
Can I ask a question to the American gun owners on here. Call me thick or stupid but hear me out.

If this guy had pointed that gun at you, would you have retaliated by shooting him?

edit on 1/9/11 by EnigmaAgent because: (no reason given)

You point a gun at me or my family, then I'm going to kill you and not bat an eye about it. I won't ask you what your intentions are, I won't ask you if you're gun is real; you have marked yourself as a threat to my and my family's life and I will kill you. I don't draw my gun unless I have the sole intent of using it. Thankfully I've never been in a situation where I had to pull the trigger, but I know I wouldn't hesitate in this situation.

This situation sucks all the way around, but those LEO's had no other choice but to use deadly force. They were in the right, unfortunately it cost someone their life, but they have nothing to feel ashamed of.