Justice Department Releases Findings of Unconstittuional Conditions at Miami-Dade Jail Facilities

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


The easiest way to solve this problem is reducing the amount of laws that are considered crimes. This will help reduce population, and stress on the overall system.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by MrWendal

 

I'm sure it's a mixture of elements which cause this stupidity.

It is not just one thing or another it never is like that.

It is instead a lack of knowledge, which put the majority of those people there, in the first place, a lack of respect for themselves, which lead to the ultimate idiocy, as well as a lack of respect for the rest of society, which created the problems from the very beginning. Add to that the fact that we have people locked away for their crimes, paying other people to administrate that, guard it, feed it, and bureaucratize it. And as well add to it that no one is really ever rehabilitated there, only made into smarter criminals, in the sense of knowing how to commit more and worse crimes, not in the sense of actual intelligence.

From the top down the entire Federal and State prison system needs to be flushed out.

And changed totally.

Like an enema cleansing the bowels of society.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you a bit, if so I do apologize, but it seems to me that you are working from an assumption that everyone in jail is a "criminal" and that is simply not the case. I do not consider a guy who drives without a license to be a "criminal". I do not consider a guy who was getting high to be a criminal. The problem as I see it is the laws. We have criminalized behavior that is in fact not criminal. We have created laws and made criminals out of people in which the situations they are involved in has no actual victim. That is the problem the way I see it.

Don't be ignorant. My brother killed someone, is in the pen. He lost all his rights the day he killed someone and violated their right to be alive. I love him but have no sympathy.

Originally posted by MrWendal
Maybe I am misunderstanding you a bit, if so I do apologize, but it seems to me that you are working from an assumption that everyone in jail is a "criminal" and that is simply not the case. I do not consider a guy who drives without a license to be a "criminal". I do not consider a guy who was getting high to be a criminal. The problem as I see it is the laws. We have criminalized behavior that is in fact not criminal. We have created laws and made criminals out of people in which the situations they are involved in has no actual victim. That is the problem the way I see it.

No apology necessary.

However, I do believe you're both right and wrong, on very many levels.

You do not consider everyone in prison or jail a "criminal" and I concur you might be right.

There is however the consensus of society which disagrees, with you and me, and I disagree too.

Again, you might not consider some of those people criminals, some are, and some are not.

There are blue collar criminals and white collar criminals.

Some crimes are absurd as Hell, some which aren't strict enough, and others that few know.

To your reply you are referencing victimless crimes and I am sure there are some.

I'm not here to debate the small and finite tiny laws like driving without a license.

However, I can see where you're coming from, some of your thoughts seem naive.

A person who drives without a license can indeed not be a "criminal" yet still deserves jail.

I'll give you a simple example, personal experience, family member got nailed by it.

My stepfather, a Vietnam era Marine, workaholic, Jack-of-All-Trades, the man who taught me.

He taught from from 1979, at the age of six years old, about Government, Military, Law Enforcement.

As well he happens to be the man who brought me into the fold of being a conspiracy theorist.

Well, around 20 years ago, he was heading to work at 3am, to a newer job delivering milk.

This is one of those companies that deliver milk to schools all day.

About 4 minutes away from the house on the main road in our area he came across a problem.

Coming the opposite direction was a drunk driver, without a license, without insurance, without a tag.

Head on collision.

Both of them laid thrown from their vehicles for the next 3 hours waiting.

This little town is dead quiet and almost zero traffic in certain areas after 10pm.

At 6am a Sheriff on his way to checking in to go on duty found both of them.

The law at the time was if the damage exceeded $600 worth of damage the Sheriff wasn't responsible.

Responsible for what you might ask?

For a breathalyzer, urine test, or blood test, that was the hospital's responsibility.

Guess what?

The hospital dropped the ball and the other man didn't get tested even though he stank of booze.

He was coming home from a party at 3am drunk off his ass.

That man was discharged from the hospital within an hour or two.

My stepfather however was treated as if he was faking his nerve damage.

They thought he was faking his internal injuries.

Those people working treated him like he was the criminal.

Remember, he was a diehard Vietnam era Marine, a man who did many things up to this point.

Well, he didn't stay in the hospital for more than a few hours, and left AMA, Against Medical Advice.

Because of his mistreatment, because he knew his insurance would not pay for everything.

As well as all of this the lawyer he hired to sue his own insurance screwed him over.

Do I blame the law for the fact that he's been crippled for the last 20+ years?

Do I blame the law for the fact that he's a shadow of his former self with little clarity?

Do I blame the law for the fact that he's with lost memory, daily pain, and never leaves his house?

No in fact I do not.

Do I think the man who hit him and got off with it due to a technicality is a criminal?

Yes I do.

Believe it or not this is not an insult.

But you sound young and naive as Hell

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


If you drive with outdated license plates you can end up in jail. If you don't pay parking tickets you can end up in jail. If you have a 10 sack of pot in your pocket you can end up in jail. If you jay walk you can end up in jail. If you defend yourself by using force you can end up in jail.

Just because someone "broke a law" doesn't mean they are actually criminals.

Plus jail is where a lot of people stay that haven't been charged guilty of a crime and cannot afford to make bond.

reply to post by searching411


I KNEW someone would come in on this thread and say this crap "Who cares, theyre just inmates,"
You know, the callousness of some people on here NEVER ceases to amaze me. The LOUDEST ones are the ones that say theyre christian, or that theyre a loving caring person, but the way you all talk about those in prison is utterly vile. So much for 'Christian forgiveness", right?

Anyhow, I admit I am a felon, and did time in Florida and here in NC, the DOC here has kinda shocked me. the Dorms I were in had cable TV, and the inmates get PAID for working. In Florida, you were lucky you got a local channel or 2, and if you didnt work, you didnt get gain time.
As far as deplorable conditions, that was rampant in FLDOC, you had inmates sleeping on mattresses infested with mold, lice and other things. The rooms were full of fire ants half the time, and if you complained, you went to lockdown, which was worse. I'd wake up covered in ant and insect bites. When I finally got out (thankfully, I only did a year), I shaved my ENTIRE body to get rid of any possible lice or bugs. To this day, whenever I see ants, I start itching.
In NCDOC, the medical care was a joke. I'm on meds for cholesterol, high blood pressure, and various psych meds, plus nitro for unstable angina. I got chest pains one night, and I know my body, I needed a nitro, when I went to medical, they told me I was having indigestion, even AFTER I had an EKG done and it was abnormal. Never again, did i tell em when I was having chest pains.
I am being treated for psych issues thru the VA, have been for over 10 years, so when I got to the DOC, they decide theyre not going to give me the meds the VA prescribes me, and takes me off ALL of them.
Thank GOD I was only in there for 75 days, but the withdrawals were not pretty.
I tell ya what, I'd NEVER wish prison or jail on my own worst enemy, but not all people there are as bad as SOME of you would like to think they are. EVERYONE makes a mistake, EACH AND EVERYONE of us has made mistakes, some got caught, others didnt. It could just as easily be ANYONE of you out there reading this behind bars.
Also, dont say you'd never go to prison, you dont do anything wrong. Thats utter BS, there are ALOT of innocent people in prison. Google the Innocence Project.

reply to post by MrWendal


Since there's now apparently some character limit which wasn't there before I'll continue here.

There are some laws which are asinine, I agree, there are some laws which need to be stricter.

But the overall gist of my previous post to you was about responsibility and the law.

The man who hit my stepfather deserves prison.

For the rest of his life.

Because that's what my stepfather got.

Prison.

In his home, in a crippled body, and in a decrepit mental state compared to what he was before.

Before you try to disagree with me you need to know that the world is much bigger than you or I.

It carries around billions of people who make choices both right and wrong.

And there is a need for laws to keep them in check and as well to punish them.

I will say this though.

I am not anti-Government being here on ATS.

I am anti-corruption within Government.

I do see those two do walk hand-in-hand at times with certain people.

And as far as drugs are concerned I couldn't give a damn if weed was illegal or not.

It is illegal in the eyes of the law.

If they legalized it tomorrow I still wouldn't smoke it.

That is not just because of the law though that is a personal choice.

I see the law as being necessary whether you do or not.

I might not like all of the laws but there are better ways to make that known than flouting them.

Personally, I agree with our national policy, in the War on Drugs.

Get it off my damned streets as I've seen too many drug addicts overdosing in a hospital bed.

I've seen the looks on their families faces when the doctor told them their loved one didn't make it.

What I don't agree with specifically in our nation's international policy in the War on Drugs.

As far as I'm concerned the "War on Drugs" is a huge joke as it is merely Prohibition : Part II.

If we're not nailing the international cartels and taking the war to their front doors it's meaningless.

I do not see the War on Drugs as a legitimate war of any kind.

Because it is made up just to shove young juvenile offenders in prison for sheer stupidity.

Nailing the occasional offender who sells it.

If they didn't get flipped by the D.E.A. first to go up the food chain.

If I was in charge of the War on Drugs I would take that war straight to the targets I see.

The Golden Triangle, the Golden Crescent, and Columbia primarily.

But I would also take that war to the very doorsteps of the United Nations.

And kick the fat and lazy bastard sitting around there off their idiotic laurels.

The War on Drugs is a failed war from step one due to it being an Ourbourus.

It is a snake eating it's own tail which is meant to never be full and always starving.

The people sitting in jail due to drugs for whatever reason are complete idiots though.

They may or may not be criminals to you but they're a waste of existence to me.

Because they didn't learn the laws of the land and learn how to change them.

That is something I've done all of my life is learn, learn, and learn more about the laws.

I'll never end up in prison for quite a few reasons.

1) My stepfather, crippled or not, would break my neck.

2) I don't disobey the laws.

3) And I'm smarter than the criminals who do.

Then again I've known for the last 32 years I'll end up both in Washington D.C. and the U.N.

Without becoming like all of the idiots that walked in there and sold their souls to the Devil.

That is because I know how not to get sucked into their criminality.

And effect a change but I need the entire conspiracy theory community to help out.

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

If you drive with outdated license plates you can end up in jail. If you don't pay parking tickets you can end up in jail. If you have a 10 sack of pot in your pocket you can end up in jail. If you jay walk you can end up in jail. If you defend yourself by using force you can end up in jail.

Just because someone "broke a law" doesn't mean they are actually criminals.

Plus jail is where a lot of people stay that haven't been charged guilty of a crime and cannot afford to make bond.

You're stating a blatantly obvious statement why?

If you're going to debate me you had better step it up a few notches.

Or else don't bother because you're boring me.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


'Unconstitutional Conditions' - interesting turn-around coming from them at a time when the Constitution is being completely ignored and discarded.

Could it be veiled message to certain criminals? Ah well, I guess they say hope springs eternal.

reply to post by searching411

Come on, why are some of you crying about the mistreatment of people who have maimed, killed, stole, hurt, etc. society. Why should people who are in prison be entitled to better living conditions than the "working poor"? If you break the rules of society, you have to pay the price (that includes members of our government). Granted, there are certain humane protocols we should follow, but otherwise, make the inmates' prison confinement uncomfortable. These people are in prison because of choices that they made. They should own their decisions. They either learn from their choices or we continue to have the burden of a broken society.

Because some are as brutally guilty as having smoked a joint or driven under the influence or partied too loudly.

Because we're human beings, is why.

Because there is no humane reason to withhold insulin from a diabetic, or to tell a prisoner whose hernia has popped through to "Just push it back in".

On the outside, you have the option of going somewhere else for what you need.

Those things happen every day in our jails.

Why does everyone keep saying what about the people that got caught with a joint? WTF? It is illegal in most states.....that means it is a crime. You go to jail for commiting a crime. I dont see the confusion. If you insist on using it, move to colorado or california or a country were it is legal. Seems like common sense to me.

reply to post by billy197300

Why does everyone keep saying what about the people that got caught with a joint? WTF? It is illegal in most states.....that means it is a crime. You go to jail for commiting a crime. I dont see the confusion. If you insist on using it, move to colorado or california or a country were it is legal. Seems like common sense to me.

The fact is, many people question whether toking should be a crime. It doesn't break any of the Big Ten. It's basically victimless. It's therapeutic in many cases.

Throughout history many such things were considered "crimes". And with enough time they were decriminalized. It's about time the same was done with a joint, imo.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by billy197300

 

Why does everyone keep saying what about the people that got caught with a joint? WTF? It is illegal in most states.....that means it is a crime. You go to jail for commiting a crime. I dont see the confusion. If you insist on using it, move to colorado or california or a country were it is legal. Seems like common sense to me.

The fact is, many people question whether toking should be a crime. It doesn't break any of the Big Ten. It's basically victimless. It's therapeutic in many cases.

Throughout history many such things were considered "crimes". And with enough time they were decriminalized. It's about time the same was done with a joint, imo.

I am not debating the fact of whether marijuana SHOULD be legal or not. I am a supporter of legalizing it. What I am saying is that it isn't in most places. The actual fact is that it is illegal like it or not. It IS a crime to use it or posses it. Everyone that has the stuff knows it is. So, they are intentionally breaking the law which is a crime. So I don't feel sorry for the people that are in jail for it at all. It is common sense that breaking the law will get you put in a place like Miami-Dade jail. So how can you complain about the conditions there? You intentionally put yourself there knowing it was a bad place to start with. I just dont it.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Your posts are extremely hard to read as they are written in weird triple spacing with no indentation or paragraph separation. Please learn how to construct readable essays before writing them. MLA format anyone... if you wanna double space. lol Are you trying to write a poem or forum post?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I can appreciate what you said and I agree with you 100% the person who hit your step father deserves to be in jail for a very long time. There is a huge difference between a person who is driving without a license who gets pulled over, arrested, and placed in jail and someone who is driving drunk, without a license, who due to their actions cause injury to another. The example you use is a perfect example of what are jails should be for, but what about those who hurt no one? Should they also be lumped in with the trash like the person who hit your step father?

People go to jail for a variety of reasons. I have seen people in jail for child support that was behind by 10 cents. Unpaid parking tickets. Defending themselves. Remember that thread of people who were arrested for selling lemonaide? Where do you think they went? They went to jail and none of them are what I would call "criminals"

reply to post by billy197300


Actually it is not illegal to use weed. It is illegal to possess it and in my opinion it is a victimless crime. You show me a guy smoking a joint in front of his TV and ordering a pizza, and I will show you a guy who is not out getting in trouble Smoking a joint does nothing to hurt you, does nothing to damage property. Any argument that can be made about harmful effects would only be harmful to the person using it and thus far that has not been proven either.

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

'Unconstitutional Conditions' - interesting turn-around coming from them at a time when the Constitution is being completely ignored and discarded.

Could it be veiled message to certain criminals? Ah well, I guess they say hope springs eternal.

That it is indeed.

I've noticed a very interesting trend lately when it comes to the Government.

It would seem they're actually doing their job more aggressively lately.

The paradigm is shifting in many different ways.

And not in the way very many people in the conspiracy theory community is seeing.

Originally posted by billy197300
Why does everyone keep saying what about the people that got caught with a joint? WTF? It is illegal in most states.....that means it is a crime. You go to jail for commiting a crime. I dont see the confusion. If you insist on using it, move to colorado or california or a country were it is legal. Seems like common sense to me.

Common sense is one of the most uncommon things in the world.

Not to mention people are raised differently.

Some people are brainwashed by their parents to believe things are right when they are wrong.

Other people are brainwashes by their parents to believe things are wrong when they are right.

Perception and who forms it in our minds as youth develop what we think as adults.

Whether the law is right or wrong, whether our Government is right or wrong, you get the rest.

As well there are varying degrees of the laws and the intelligence of the person or lack thereof.

Can't do the time? Is it too harsh or not like a hotel? Worried about your "rights"?

THEN DON'T DO THE CRIME

Where are the rights of the victims and their families? What did you do to uphold their constitutional rights? Oh wait, you are a criminal who took them away...

SO WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE YOURS?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

But cable television is not a Constitutionally protected right.

It isn't but prison is harsh enough without completely isolating people. Plus, TV can transform people. Many who have found there way here can attest to just how powerful it is. And it's really not that expensive considering entertainment can keep the inmates from going crazy out of sheer boredom.