I beg of you to read this. Stop the Drama. 2.0.

Yes, my voice is one sided. When you decide that something is right then there is no other path. It takes time to change a mindset. I am one person and these are my thoughts…

I feel we are buying into duality. Read. Duality is one of our burdens. So is culture. How many scientists died for their theories? Get over past fears and look farther. Try to understand…

I have tried many paths. I have seen too much to say this is wrong. The path of peaceful resistance is not one that everyone will like-they are ruled by their emotions. It is, however, the most effective way to change things. If enough people band together to make this world the way we want, peacefully, then the world could change (we ask our senators and congressman to that for us everyday). Everything could change if people tried to understand each other and leave duality behind. Leave behind the us vs them mentality. It is you and me; it is us…

This means overcoming emotions to some extent. We can band together and find a solution that works for everyone. We need to stifle our tempers and try to understand one another. We need that to move forward. We are all looking for something. We are all looking for the same thing. What I am "preaching" is PART and only a part of a solution we can all be happy with. I believe these words in my heart and soul. One step at a time…

I truly believe that if we all tried to talk to one another we could come to a solution that would make everyone happy. Sadly, we do not talk anymore. We respond and gossip. We cause drama, and expect it in the news (we want life to be an action movie). Most of us only care for our own opinion. We hold our arguments in and talk behind each others backs. We fear openness (and we blame government for having secrets?) We need our lies. We need to feel like the best. We need to feel secure. We need so much now that we can’t see the benefits of living peacefully, plainly and openly. This is the American condition. Maybe a disorder. Lets get them a new pill shall we!

I don't know what we are all looking for. As I said I am one sided. I have been both sides, but I cannot talk for everyone. I know it sounds liberal. But isn't change what we wanted? Well, it wasn't Obama's change we wanted....so what do we want, and how do we get there? We obviously want change, but no politician will ever bring it to us (especially at the fed level). It is something we must obtain ourselves (or rather take back).

We have to get there again ourselves. We don’t need the government to make our lives better, and we sure as heck don’t need them to tell us everything to do. We can make our communities and lives a great place through our local governments. Screw the federal government. Concentrate on the state government and use most of that fed money at the state level. We simply do not need the federal government at this point. They are only a distraction. We have put such a demand on Federal government that they simply can’t keep up. We have to take the power back, because the f.g. just cannot make people happy, and we should have never expected them to to begin with. Government should not have interfered in our lives to this extent. It is our life and our decisions, our communities, and our states! Not theirs! We make our lives run-not the fed.

We will never become a great species unless we reconcile our petty differences. We need to overcome this and become great. We need some love. We need peace. We need it in our own lives before we can expect it out of the world. It starts with each of us making a difference. It starts with you and ends in us.

When I started this I really just wanted to say…stop the drama. Stop fighting and bickering and backstabbing. We are more caught up in what the Smith’s boy did that on what is happening to our country.

You cannot expect everyone to understand you or your point of view. On the other hand, we can work together regardless. We are one country. A lot of us hate the country-fine (what you hate is the federal government). However, remember that we are all part of one state in 50. Most of us love our own states for a reason. Things happen on the state level, but only get worse on the federal.

No more division, no more hate. No more dramatizations to get attention! We take up arms about abortions but we don’t stop wars. There is something so wrong with that. We need to plan ahead and work together; we need to talk (and it needs to start community by community, state by state). Can we do it? It is what we need, but we could. Will we do it? Probably not, but we can. We are one race, we are one state, we are one country, and we are one people that know how life works beyond politics.

Make these truths be known in real life and the movement will spread. Make a real change in this country and start working together!

Peace and love. Truly, really.

Edit~ As for local, state, and federal government. All of these used to have a purpose, and they need to be separated again. Local government decides local decisions and laws (and only they enforce that), state decides how it deals with the f.g. and interstate disputes, and the fed deals only with other countries based on how all of the lower levels feel about it. The f.g needs to butt out on local and state privileges. They have grown too big. It used to be more like that. Now this country resides almost solely on the federal government and big business as a consequence.

Full marks to you for an excellent thread.

I also beleive that the answer is communication, understanding and love.

But as my beloved Morrissey sang:

Love, peace and harmony,
Oh love peace and harmony,
Very nice, very nice, very nice,
But mabe in the next world, Maybe in the next world.

Originally posted by Shamatt
Full marks to you for an excellent thread.

I also beleive that the answer is communication, understanding and love.

But as my beloved Morrissey sang...

He did sing that awhile ago. What is to say that we cannot make another world while we are alive?

It is sad to see so many of us thinking that it couldn't be done. There is no hope anymore. Then again look at the US approval/happiness ratings since the 60's. That is when they peaked, and since then government has squashed all of our hopes and dreams generation by generation.

reply to post by adraves

We will never become a great species.........

Homo Americus?

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by adraves

 

We will never become a great species.........

Homo Americus?

I was thinking more along the lines of Mundus Sapiens..."wise earth"

Latin is fun!

Anyways did you even read the post? Don't you have anything more to add than pointing out 7 words you didn't like? No thoughts or conversation about it?

No offense to the op, but your post is very convoluted and long winded. You could have said this in a paragraph or two. Thus, most people will not bother reading it. If you want people to communicate and get along, you first need to learn to get to the point much faster.

I know you mean well but that's my two cents.

reply to post by adraves


I read it all.

I found that it was mainly based upon the US and wondered if US citizens were a separate species from the rest of the world.

It's "fun" pointing out that Americans have a hard time looking past their own noses.

Originally posted by itsatrap
No offense to the op, but your post is very convoluted and long winded. You could have said this in a paragraph or two. Thus, most people will not bother reading it. If you want people to communicate and get along, you first need to learn to get to the point much faster.

I know you mean well but that's my two cents.

It is your two cents, but most of it was written and revised over a few days. Most everything is presented for a reason. It is my 2-10 cents if you will.

I know posts are not expected to be long nowadays, but sometimes you just need to read it and not skim it. I would love to appeal to the average user, but if I made this 1-2P it would only lead to a flame war. Read and then post a little more than a simple complaint on length or a single line. Give me something to work with.

Do you have anything to respond to this or did you just say screw it, it is more than a P, and respond?

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by adraves

 

I read it all.

I found that it was mainly based upon the US and wondered if US citizens were a separate species from the rest of the world.

It's "fun" pointing out that Americans have a hard time looking past their own noses.

No, we are a different culture. The states in general all have their own unique cultures, and if this was Europe, the USA would be 50 different countries.

Europe is different in many ways and many countries. America can be thought of as the same way. Each state is different and each county and city level will be different. It causes obvious problems in this country.

I make us seem separate because we need to deal with our own issues and not other countries that have little to nothing to do with us. we need to get back on track in my opinion....


We are not a global community yet! If we were we would all be the same skin color and have the same government. We are separated, and we have to realize that. There are differences in beliefs and thoughts 30 miles away let alone 3000. Crazy things happen everywhere, but we need to focus on our local communities to help change things.

reply to post by adraves


Species and culture mean entirely different things.

I make us seem separate because we need to deal with our own issues before we go and try to fix the world again.

This is exactly why citizens from the USA are not liked around the rest of the world.

What makes you think that the rest of the world needs the USA to fix it?

Given, that the USA is in a screwed enough state as it is. I would think that the citizens of the USA are the least qualified in governing the change of any other country.

Lets be realistic here, the USA can't even provide adequate health care nor education to its own citizens and you think that it should be responsible for fixing the world.

Get over yourself.

The USA is a classic lesson in "how not to do it".

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
reply to post by adraves

 

Species and culture mean entirely different things.

I make us seem separate because we need to deal with our own issues before we go and try to fix the world again.

This is exactly why citizens from the USA are not liked around the rest of the world.

What makes you think that the rest of the world needs the USA to fix it?

Given, that the USA is in a screwed enough state as it is. I would think that the citizens of the USA are the least qualified in governing the change of any other country.

Lets be realistic here, the USA can't even provide adequate health care nor education to its own citizens and you think that it should be responsible for fixing the world.

Get over yourself.

The USA is a classic lesson in "how not to do it".

Yes! I know what species and culture are. Species were never brought up in my original post. I used it in a response to a previous post! Local levels/cities have their own own unique culture that has special needs compared to the rest of the country, almost like a species (should I just say like a breed of dog to make you happy?). Jeez. Anyways...

Really? Once again all of the responses so far except one are picking out a single line you do not like. the "fixing the world" bit was supposed to be a sarcastic sentence. I edited it just for you. The USA should only worry about itself and never go and fix the world or try to change it unless it is another WW. I never thought other countries need our intervention, and most USA's don't either.

Stop picking lines apart. Good for you that one thing I said was poorly worded, but did you read the original post or get the message at all? America needs to worry about themselves! Screw the rest of the world until things are fixed at home.

The entire world is a lesson in how not to do it. Look at history. There are no innocents. There is also no right way to do it when a country starts acting like a global power. The USA needs to pull back and let go if the country wants to prosper again.

reply to post by adraves

Yes! I know what species and culture are. Species were never brought up in my original post.

Really? I copied this from the original post.

We will never become a great species unless we reconcile our petty differences. We need to overcome this and become great. We need some love. We need peace. We need it in our own lives before we can expect it out of the world. It starts with each of us making a difference. It starts with you and ends in us.

*Pause for laughter*

Really? Once again all of the responses so far except one are picking out a single line you do not like. the "fixing the world" bit was supposed to be a sarcastic sentence. I edited it just for you. The USA should only worry about itself and never go and fix the world or try to change it unless it is another WW.

Do you mean sit on the sidelines and wait for a stalemate, then come in and tip the balance and claim you saved the world?

*Pause for more laughter*

I never thought other countries need our intervention, and most USA's don't either.

There is more than one USA?

Stop picking lines apart.

Why? I'm having too much "fun".

The entire world is a lesson in how not to do it.

Is it? Surely amongst all of our failures there would be a few success stories? Or is it a case of The USA failed so everyone failed? Are there no countries in the world that have decent education as standard? Are there no countries in the world that have affordable health care for all of their citizens?

There are no innocents.

Really? Is this an opinion or a statement of fact?

There is also no right way to do it when a country starts acting like a global power.

Surely if there was a wrong way, then by definition there should be its distinct opposite "the right way"?

The USA needs to pull back and let go if the country wants to prosper again.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I wasn't initially trying to stir you up with my "Homo Americus" comment. I was merely trying to point out that you were using the term "we" a lot and seemed to forget that there is a bigger world out there than just the United States. I can sympathise with USA's economic struggles, its rising unemployment, its pi$$ poor health system, etc, but, I find offence with terms that label the whole world in economic strife and that democratic systems don't work, when they seem to work just fine in some countries.

Statements in the OP like

If enough people band together to make this world the way we want, peacefully, then the world could change....

Just show an distinct lake of understanding for anything outside of your own reality.

Just how do we want this world to be?

Could it be possible that different people on the planet have different ideologies on what a perfect world should be like?

Is it possible that some people on the planet could already be happy with their current situation and do not wish to change it?

So, who is right and who is wrong?

Who's opinion should be considered right above all others?

I bet I wouldn't have to look far to find that despite the many Obama bashers on ATS there would likely be some amongst us that would support him. Should their opinion be considered less because it is disagreement of an others opinon?

You claim

I have tried many paths.

Does this mean you know what everyone wants and should decide the best course of the future for all others?

Most of us only care for our own opinion.

So true......so true.

Originally posted by adraves


It is your two cents, but most of it was written and revised over a few days. Most everything is presented for a reason. It is my 2-10 cents if you will.

I know posts are not expected to be long nowadays, but sometimes you just need to read it and not skim it. I would love to appeal to the average user, but if I made this 1-2P it would only lead to a flame war. Read and then post a little more than a simple complaint on length or a single line. Give me something to work with.

Do you have anything to respond to this or did you just say screw it, it is more than a P, and respond?

edit on 29-8-2011 by adraves because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-8-2011 by adraves because: (no reason given)

I was simply giving advice on knowing your audience. You do know what website you are on, right? There is a huge difference in how articles are written according to their audience in all media. For example, journals such as Nature, Science, or Scientific American include entire studies with all figures and facts and the scientific jargon pertinent to the applicable field because the target audience is able to grasp it. Other publications such as Discovery and Popular Science basically give an abridged version of the article or study so that the layman may understand it. There is nothing wrong with the layman, he/she just isn't as acquainted with the field of study as someone who's profession requires it.

They appeal to different audiences.

Now considering, the majority of your post was koombayah, "can't we all just get along" wishful thinking, I was only stating that you could have said it in a much shorter message. A longer post does not necessarily equate to a better post.....it's just longer. I was as polite as possible and giving genuine advice to you, I even started and ended the post with apologetic rhetoric! Something I rarely bother with. However, since you decided to be condescending and get offended because I gave my OPINION(which you talked at length about....) I will share my views on your rant that you spent "days" on(and then immediately needed an edit to add another paragraph?).

It would be wonderful if everyone could put aside their differences and emotions and enjoy debating and living side by side in harmony(please pass the vegiburger please). However the world, and humans for that matter, don't work that way. Everyone has their own motives and ambitions and will do what they deem morally right or necessary to accomplish said goals. We have evolved a higher intelligence than any other species on this planet, however, we still hold the same primitive brain structures that regulate the most basic needs and desires that allowed us to evolve into the dominant species in the first place. We still want the best hunting grounds(real estate), fight over the kill(resources; oil, food, water, iphones....), we posture and grunt over each other for the best mates(fast cars, expensive clothes, big house), we rely and visciously defend our pack against all other perceived threats(ethnicity, region, culture), and we all want to be at the top. However in organized society, not everyone gets what they want, thus everyone will never be 100% content or get along with everyone. Step back and look at the human mindset, the majority of the advancements humans have made originates from our warlike nature. Most new technologies originate from the military or are quickly adapted by it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not pessimistic about our species, just realistic, and I do believe that given enough time(provided we don't all kill each other), we will evolve out the aggressive tendencies that got us to the top. Through sociocultural conditioning and technologies enabling distribution of adequate resources to everyone, aggression will not be necessary for survival any more. But those things will take time. That is how evolution works, the traits that are advantageous to the species survive while the rest die off.

I trust we will evolve out of our temper tantrum tendencies, but simply crying "stop the drama" isn't going to cut it.

LOL, I can make a long winded post in 10 min

reply to post by itsatrap


What I need to say outright, this is a response to a thread I released 2 years ago before…I “was abducted by TBTB” for awhile . That previous thread did really well, so I decided to update the original post with extra thoughts that were expressed throughout the thread. Somehow I magically knew the audience then, but can’t seem to make the mark now without constant slams and personal attacks. Of course the previous thread also lead to “mysterious circumstances” but not until 50+ flags and many pages.

Now I come here again and post a similar/revised thought and this is what I get. What has happened here? What has happened to real responses based on an entire message vs one argument based on a line a users doesn’t like? What has happened to listening to others and posting thoughtful responses? Maybe it was just a matter of timing, or myself having a different mindset at the time. Who knows?

I did not mean or attack, but when I ask for a real response I don’t expect users to single out sentences or statements. The overall message gets diluted because of one sentence you don’t like?

As for many of your best points, you obviously think of the human race very similarly to me. The sad thing is we still see it for what it is, but what is there to do? If we see these patterns, and understand them, then why can’t we change them? I do not feel this is a matter of evolution at this point. This is a problem with culture. We are not really evolving anymore. The only way to move forward is to change the way our cultures present ideas. It isn’t that crazy. It has happened before.

reply to post by adraves


You are speaking a good message, and a logical one. Every one would benefit from choosing to live in that world, even those that benefit greatly from this one.

We can be most effective when helping the community around us. Strengthening that will lead to a much stronger society in many different regards if it is widespread. Especially with easy access to communication mediums like the internet.

But people need to choose that, or it wont happen. But its easy to get distracted with the automatic response of division and exploitation. Our "cultural story," as it were. We can still choose to look at the "distance" between two perspectives as basis for immediate disagreement, or an avenue to better understand the universe around us.

Its something that crosses political, religious, cultural, and even language boundaries (through action). The concept can be understood by everyone, and perhaps if more people choose to live it we will actually see a difference.

And you were long-winded Happens to the best of us!

Originally posted by sinohptik

I understand that sadly (and am usually very logical, but conflict abounds). We need to understand and choose a better life before it will happen. I just like the idea of pushing people to think. It doesn't seem like thinking about others matters anymore.

How do we find that perfect avenue? What needs to be done? That is a driving force in me-I have to find it. I know the way it should be, and I know it will take sacrifices, but what needs to happen to make this world understand/united?

What is the concept that everyone can understand? We can all agree that we want the world to be a better place, but we can't agree how to do it. I want the world to grow and prosper, but with all this bickering, it does not seem possible. It is very frustrating.

Sorry for the long-windiness and craziness. I have my Gandhi moments and my Satan moments. I feel the reason my old thread was popular was because I was in one of the Ghandi moments. Yeah. I am working on that too.

Side note: can anyone else change their own thought patterns and write something beautiful even though it isn't something you wouldn't usually write?

Here is a note I wrote on FB a few months ago. I copy it into this conversation because it answers your question. Love is the answer. Once we all realise we come from the same place, are made of the same flesch and blood, that we are all one.......

I am not a Christian, I am not even religous, this is just what I beleive.

How to find God.


First of all you have to ask some other questions. It goes back to the very old question about if we are "a ghost in the machine". What makes us concious? What gives us our self awareness> I think therefore I am does not go far enough.... I am what? Am I a product of an electron in a biological circuit linking this neuron to that?

Do we have spirit/soul? Look inside and if you see your love, your copassion, your empathy, your soul, then there is your God.

Our god is all of us. Like a broken shattered morror which is still stuck in its frame, from 10 feet away you can still see yourself reflecting back at you, the whole you. But stand close up and you can see a thousand you's one in each bit of the morror. If we are the ghost in the machine, then all those gost together make up the 1 true god.

There is no religion will teach you this, although some can come close to it. You can't find God looking out there for someone else to give you the answer.

If you want to know God, if you want to love and worship him, then you need to know youself, to love and worship yourself, and your neighbours, and everyone else we share this little planet with. Then you have not just found God, but you have also found heaven.

Originally posted by adraves
I understand that sadly (and am usually very logical, but conflict abounds). We need to understand and choose a better life before it will happen. I just like the idea of pushing people to think. It doesn't seem like thinking about others matters anymore.

Because to many, it does not. However, to you it does. I think thats the important part.

How do we find that perfect avenue? What needs to be done? That is a driving force in me-I have to find it. I know the way it should be, and I know it will take sacrifices, but what needs to happen to make this world understand/united?

What is the concept that everyone can understand? We can all agree that we want the world to be a better place, but we can't agree how to do it. I want the world to grow and prosper, but with all this bickering, it does not seem possible. It is very frustrating.

Sorry for the long-windiness and craziness. I have my Gandhi moments and my Satan moments. I feel the reason my old thread was popular was because I was in one of the Ghandi moments. Yeah. I am working on that too.

"Perfect" avenue? Some might say we are already there. Im not sure we would know "better" if we didnt see that the way we are growing will likely lead to destruction.

Choosing to help and Love one another may not be the "perfect" avenue in the way we think it. Even when on that path, there will be trials, difficulties, and problems to overcome. Just like there are now. However, we can face that if and when it happens as we will not know them until we are there.

Others must choose for themselves. But, perhaps it will be made easier if others ford that trail first. In our own lives we can start making the movement necessary to start making something like this possible. It needs to start somewhere.

We can start by taking some of those things we are good at, and putting it into action in our communities. Having discernment as to where are the best places to invest that energy is a continuous learning process. Like so many things in life, we need to decide where those seeds will best grow, where the idea will continue to grow and be passed on. But when we have truly put our effort into something and improved of our own volition, when that is used to help others, I see it as putting our own art and beauty out into the world. This can be done in such a myriad of ways.. Everything from agriculture, to electronics, to dog training.

We can begin businesses, services, and social/political structures founded in this principle ourselves. Where the idea is not solely for the individual profit, but a balance between the individual and the whole (from which there is no separation to begin with, except in ones perspective). It needs action taken on SOMEONES part though, or the seeds will never be planted.

Working together on these things will lead to massive growth in everything from the technology sector, to ecological management and efficacy. The knowledge has always come from the "people," though it is all squandered away behind closed doors currently. Plus, most are more interested in argument than discovery or advancement. So, others will need to lead the way in the countless ways we can bring our own art and effort into the world.

Side note: can anyone else change their own thought patterns and write something beautiful even though it isn't something you wouldn't usually write?

That is the very way I learn about my own perspective.

reply to post by Shamatt


How then, do we find something that is already there in all ways?

An interesting quandary!

Some would say it is through our actions themselves that can communicate the message to those who do not even understand the words "God" or "Love."

reply to post by Shamatt


I think you also find acceptance when you take the time to reflect. You accept yourself, your life, and those around you for their own uniqueness.

I don't feel like this happens much anymore today. I feel like we are all to busy and self-absorbed to look for answers. We simply just can't find the time to care anymore.

I am not religious either, but there are golden tidbits of knowledge to be gained from every religion and every person. I liked your mirror analogy. Good thoughts.