The Truth about Libya?

Recently, events in Libya have made me take a second look at Gaddafi. I had bought into the sheepie mindset that he was a total crackpot, but now i'm not so sure.

I found these videos, but don't have the time right now to research the claims. I know ATS is a melting pot of knowledge, and was hoping some of you might have some insight.



Looks to me like the Libyan people adore Gaddafi. I would love to see what would happen to Obama were he to try a similar stunt.


I will be looking into it in the coming days, but figured i'd go ahead and post them here for you all to see. Any thoughts?

reply to post by ddaniel


Here are 3 fantastic articles which should open a few eyes.

The Truth About Libya

Libya Fakery Alert

Did NATO Stage/Fake The Green Square 'Celebrations'?

Enjoy!

I never knew much about Gaddafi, from my position of ignorance I didnt think he was any better or any worse than most dictators.

But after being on this site and seeing Bonchos Avatar Im not so sure, how could someone who looks that happy and stupid be evil?

reply to post by ddaniel


I recognize truth when I hear it. The odd thing to me is when I heard Gaddafi speak he said what I consider the truth. The same goes for many other leaders across the world that we have thrown out of power. They have said more truth then most of our own politicians in the Western world.

You know I always thought there was something going on in Libya.

On BBC Radio 4 news yesterday they reported that the SAS and MI6 had been running insurgency training camps for 'rebels' for at least six months and that bombings had been directed therefore, on the ground, by trained personnel. Enough said, really.

Libya was truly a far better country before this Illegal Civil War and NATO interference.

There was no "human rights" abuses - that was what YOU were told by the evil Mainstream Media including all those so called "human rights" groups which are no doubt controlled by the Elite.

There was little poverty and Libya had the best living standards in Africa - the people were not suffering!

Gaddafi wanted a more united Africa...an Africa which was independent of Western interference and exploitation. But ofcourse, that will never happen now because the Rebel NTC care not for the people of Libya - just like the phony puppet government installed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan under the pretext of "democracy and freedom".

Now before anyone is quick to label Gaddafi a "dictator", he was just a leader chosen by the people. Just because the people of Libya didn't want another leader, doesn't mean Gaddafi was a dictator!

If people open their minds a bit they will realise that the real dictators are our Governments - our Two-Party Dictatorship "democracy" who call the shots in the World and always push the weak around.

They hate our freedom, and they will do whatever it takes to control and brainwash us. The power is in our hands to initiate the change...not entrust it to another shallow and fake politician who will initiate the change for you, because that has never happened AND NEVER WILL.

You must ask yourself, was this interference and illegal war worth it? Was it worth it for Freedom? Was it worth it for Democracy? Was it worth it at the cost of our soldiers lives? Was it worth it at the cost of thousands of innocent lives who only wanted to lead a normal life without all the unnecessary politics just like you and me?

My friends, we are living in a real world Matrix. Its because we chose not to believe anything outside what the mainstream says will ultimately be our downfall unless we wake up and protest against corruption in our Governments and these so called "Laws" which only benefit the Elite.

But the only question is, how much do you value your freedom and how far are you willing to go to protect it?

I just hope things get better in the post-gaddafi Libya but I know thats never going to happen.

"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on" — John F. Kennedy

What you don't know about Gaddafi and Libya










Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Mr. al-Hasidi is reportedly a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), also known as Al-Jama’a al-Islamiyyah al-Muqatilah bi-Libya. It is the most powerful radical faction waging Jihad in Libya and was officially designated as an affiliate of al-Qaeda and the Taliban – both CIA creations – by the UN 1267 Committee.

www.un.org...

LIFG was founded in 1995
en.wikipedia.org...


C.I.A. Agents in Libya Aid Airstrikes and Meet Rebels

www.nytimes.com...

CIA Operatives Have Been on the Ground in Libya for Weeks

nymag.com...

And one video



Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources
twelfthbough.blogspot.com...

And this post is from member DerepentLEstranger


next TCOTBIP and their MSM mouthpieces will tell us that gadaffi had his soldiers?/mercenaries? take babies out of incubators and ate them. Nurse_Nayirah


i've been sharing the following links on all the Libya related threads 'cause a lot of people have been drinking the kool-aid on this one, sadly it's not getting through some heads as i see the same people posting the same old MSM pro usa crapspew. perhaps they just post and don't keep reading the threads before, going on to the next Libya thread to post the same old crap

Obama asks Saudis to airlift weapons into Benghazi www.abovetopsecret.com...


Exclusive: Benghazi Explosion – Tactical Nuke Use By Gaddafi Suspected www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tactical BS more like it, it was the BS meter that actually exploded , later shown to be the bombing of a local arms depot/cache

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler The headline ought to read Tactical Nuke Use By Gaddafi Suspected by Donald Duck. The article seems to be making a case for that any explosion anywhere that either hurts or offends the sensibilities of Americans is a tactical nuke! The article also suggests the Oklahoma Bombing was a tactical nuclear device! Seems like yet another sensationalized accusation of the kind that gave us WMD in Iraq. Just a lot of unsubstantiated gibberish designed to enflame and anger people and get people here thinking about paying for another war for oil. How many times are the American people going to get fooled by the same old song and dance, wrap it in a flag, and have God bless it, and presto whamo American bombs start snuffing out 'collateral damage' everywhere.

Benghazi's importance to Libya and possibly the World:
also explains why Qaddafi has come down really harsh on these "rebels"

While many countries in the Middle East and North Africa bicker over water rights, Libya has tapped into an aquifer of 'fossil water' to change its topography – turning sand into soil. The 26-year, $20 billion project is nearly finished. …The Great Man-Made River, which is leader Muammar Qaddafi's ambitious answer to the country’s water problems, irrigates Libya’s large desert farms. The 2,333-mile network of pipes ferry water from four major underground aquifers in southern Libya to the northern population centers. Wells punctuate the water’s path, allowing farmers to utilize the water network in their fields. ... “Water is more precious for us than oil. ... Water here in Libya, it’s life.”

after all why would Qaddafi want to damage or destroy a 26-year, $20+ billion project that he considers his life's work?

Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources. The real reason for toppling Quadaffi? www.abovetopsecret.com...


Libya: British plans to strip Gaddafi of oil revenue www.abovetopsecret.com...

Libya False Flag -part 1: Reuters Hoax EXPOSED www.abovetopsecret.com...
truthfrequencynews.com...
World Cheers as the CIA Plunges Libya Into Chaos www.informationclearinghouse.info...

How was Libya doing under the rule of Gadaffi? How bad did the people have it? Were they oppressed as we now commonly accept as fact? Let us look at the facts for a moment.

Before the chaos erupted, Libya had a lower incarceration rate than the Czech republic. It ranked 61st. Libya had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa. Less than 5% of the population was undernourished. In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished ALL taxes on food.People in Libya were rich. Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. The wealth was distributed equally. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.

How does Libya get so rich? The answer is oil. The country has a lot of oil, and does not allow foreign corporations to steal the resources while the population starves, unlike countries like Nigeria, a country that is basically run by Shell.

Like any country, Libya suffers from a government with corrupt bureaucrats that try to gain a bigger portion of the pie at the cost of everyone else. In response to this, Kadaffi called for the oil revenue to be distributed directly to the people, because in his opinion, the government was failing the people. However, unlike the article claims, Kadaffi is not the president of Libya. In fact he holds no official position in the government. This is the big mistake that people make. They claim that Kadaffi rules over Libya when in fact he doesn't, his position is more or less ceremonial. He should be compared to a founding father.

The true leader of Libya is an indirectly elected prime-minister. The current prime-minister is
Baghdadi Mahmudi. Calling Khadaffi the leader of Libya is comparable to calling Akihito the leader of Japan. Contrary to what your media is sketching, opinions in Libya vary. Some people support Gadaffi but want Mahmudi out. Others want both out. Many just want to live their life in peace. However, effort is taken to sketch the appearance of a popular revolt against the supposed leader of Libya, Gadaffi, when in fact he is just the architect of Libya's current political system, a mixture of pan-Arabism, socialism, and Islamic government.

Are the protesters in Libya comparable to the protesters in Egypt and Tunisia? Not at all. The governments reaction is more violent, and obviously excessive violence is being used. However let us look for a moment at the actions of the protesters. The building of the the general people's congress, the parliament of Libya, was put on fire by angry protestors. This is comparable to protesters putting the United States Capitol on fire. Do you think that for even a moment the US government would sit idly by as protesters put the US capitol on fire?


Great Britain funded an Al Qaeda cell in Libya, in an attempt to assassinate Gadaffi. The main opposition group in Libya now is the National Front for the Salvation of Libya. This opposition group is being funded by Saudi Arabia, the CIA, and French Intelligence. This group unified itself with other opposition groups, to become the National Conference for the Libyan Opposition. It was this organization that called for the "Day of Rage" that plunged Libya into chaos on February 17 of this year.

It did this in Benghazi, a conservative city that has always been opposed to Gadaffi's rule. It should be noted that the National Front for the Salvation of Libya is well armed. In 1996 the group tried to unleash a revolution in the eastern part of Libya before. It used the Libyan National Army, the armed division of the NFSL to begin this failed uprising.

Why is the United States so opposed to Gadaffi? He is the main threat to US hegemony in Africa, because he attempts to unite the continent against the United States. This concept is called the United States of Africa. In fact, Gadaffi holds all sorts of ideas that are contrary to US interests. The man blames the United States government for the creation of HIV. He claims that Israel is behind the assasination of Martin Luther King and president John. F. Kennedy. He says that the 9/11 hijackers were trained in the US. He also urged Libyans to donate blood to Americans after 9/11. Khadaffi is also the last of a generation of moderate socialist pan-Arab revolutionaries that is still in power, after Nasser and Hussein have been eliminated, and Syria has aligned itself with Iran.The United States and Israel however have no interest in a strong Arab world. In fact it seems that elementary to the plan is bringing Libya to its knees through chaos and anarchy. In late 2010, the United Kingdom was still propping up the Libyan government through lucrative arms sales. Nothing is a better guarantee to destroy Libya than a bloody civil war. The tribal system that is still strong in Libya is useful to exploit to generate such a war since Libya has historically been divided into various tribal groups.

This is also why the Libyan government responds by importing mercenaries. Tribal allegiances go before allegiance to the government, especially in Benghazi, and thus the central government has no control over the eastern part of the country anymore. The alternative to mercenaries is a conflict between the various ethnic groups. Gadaffi has tried for 41 years to make the country more homogeneous, but opposition groups funded by outside forced will take little more than a few days to put the country back into the 19th century, before the region was conquered and unified by Europeans. The violence is indeed excessive, but everyone seems to forget that the situation is not the same as in Tunis and Egypt. Tribal ties play a far greater role, and thus the conflict will unfortunately be bloodier.

2 excellent threads that cut trough the BS by ATS member Boondock-Saint:

Obama provides air cover for terrorists who killed Americans in Iraq, www.abovetopsecret.com...
Gadhaffi funded Sarkozy's French Presidential Campaign?? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Kissinger plan to transform North Africa and Middle East into Turkmenistan forum.prisonplanet.com...
depopulation_linked_merck_pharma_announces_africa_plan www.infowars.com...

www.schillerinstitute.org...

wlym.com...


PROPAGANDA is a weapon of war and not just political control, people, and many seem to be the losers on these Libya threads.

not to mention the bots,dupes and disinfo-spreaders both conscious and unconscious, and those who want to show everybody that they "know" when all their doing is repeating something they were told.

the last thing the West wants is a United Africa, no more cheap or nearly free resources and no more toxic waste dump[Somalia] and no more bio-warfare testing on the continent of the greatest human genetic variability if that should happen. TCOTBIP having planning to commit genocide in Africa for a very long time
the last link is from 1974.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Some aditional info


Not only US has no right to intervene in sovereign country ( also without Congress approval) But they can't afford anymore.

16 Reasons Why The United States Can No Longer Afford To Be The Police Of The World

www.infowars.com...

Some of the reasons

Prior to the beginning of the “War on Terror” our national debt was under 6 trillion dollars. Today, it has more than doubled and currently sits at a whopping 14.3 trillion dollars
www.treasurydirect.gov...


U.S. military spending is greater than the military spending of China, Russia, Japan, India, and the rest of NATO combined.

www.eurocapital.gr...

today, the U.S. military is in nearly 130 different nations and it has a total of about 700 military bases around the globe. It costs approximately 100 billion dollars each year to maintain these military bases.

Just one day of the war in Afghanistan costs more money than it took to build the entire Pentagon.

www.businessinsider.com...-day-in-afghanistan-costs-the-government-more-than-it-did-to-build-the-entire- pentagon-6



how Gaddafi helped Libya people in last 40 years

* GDP per capita - $ 14,192.
* Unemployment benefit - $ 730.
* Each family member subsidized by the state gets annually $ 1.000
* Salary for nurses - $ 1.000.
* For every newborn is paid $ 7.000.
* The bride and groom receive a $ 64 thousand to purchase flats.
* Major taxes and levies prohibited.
* To open a personal business a one-time financial assistance of $ 20.000
* Education and medicine are free.
* Educ.Internships abroad - at government expense.
* Stores for large families with symbolic prices for basic foodstuffs.
* Part of pharmacies - with free dispensing.
* Loans for buying a car and an apartment - no interest.
* Real estate services are prohibited.,
* Buying a car up to 50% paid by the State.
* No Payment for electricity for the population.
* Sales and use of alcohol is prohibited.
* Petrol is cheaper than water. 1 liter of gasoline - $ 0.14.

And some disinfo

Well when NATO stops this genocide bombing campaign the whole of libya will descend into mayhem ,that will rival Iraq of 2007 as between Gaddafi and NATO the whole of Libya is armed to the teeth with automatic weapons and enough ammo to last 10 years ,coupled with the fact Libya will become a bees nest for all the fundamentalist from around the world.

NATO/Rebels/ are basically starving the people of Libya into submission by cutting the water supply and aid.

If you don't support the Rebels TNC you will die ethier from thirst and starvation or death by bombs and bullets.

History will look back in disgust at what is taking place in Libya at this present time.

reply to post by TheMaverick


Unless internal change happens in NATO countries, there is no hope for mankind because:

1) the UN doesn't care
2) The International Criminal court doesn't care
3) Amnesty International doesn't care
4) Multinational corporations don't care

We must mimic what is going on in India right now and initiate this change through non violent means. If Gandhi could do it, so can we.

I was looking down on Libya from RSOE satellite view, and these are just a cluster of many facilities I encountered in or around Tripoli. Maybe he isn't a bad person after all, but then yet our Government is making this man seem evil. Education is free in Libya why isn't it free here in the U.S.?

The new Adolf Hitler has won.
Now they can start building the gas chambers and ovens.
there is NO one to stop them.
if I hade known life was so good over there
I would have gone to live there.
and I bet a Lot of others would have to.
oh! but then I/you would be a terrrroist!!
we live in the most evil time of man kind. yes!
you can not see all the horrers.
libya's people are now slaves.
and the killings will go on for some time.

thank you so much for posting all this info in one easy to read thread and not all over the place like usual.

i always knew something was dodgy and everyone thought i was a crackpot. after showing my family and friends some of this stuff, and even just telling them all the truths such as the fact they had free electricity, health care, and housing people where shocked and woke up.

especially the fakery videos were eye opening to alot of skeptics i had told about this. mainly the one with the Indian flag, that was so blatant yet still people don't wake up and take notice.

it actually brought me to tears the video with the music, just to think such a great human being doing so much to better the life's of the common people being treated like this. seeing the reactions to people seeing him made me extremely sad.
I just wish i had known about this great man 20 years ago, i would have gladly become a "terrorist" to live in a society like that.

reply to post by xavi1000


Whoah.... THANK YOU SIR!! That's a lot to digest.

I'm in the middle of moving right now, but once I get settled I look forward to going through all of this information. Thank you for your time!

bump, this topic needs more love!

These stats about free electricity, payment to married spouses, half paid cars, etc. - can they be sourced? If someone could post up a source/link that proves these conditions it would be great.

Also, I'm too lazy to sift through the different ATS links, but could someone point out a thread referring to just how much force was used by Gaddafi after the rebels took arms? Over here in Morocco people have mentioned that a lot of what was shown on the MSM was real because channels like Al Jazeerah would broadcast uploaded videos by Libyans from cell phones and camcorders.

Thanks

reply to post by nearlyfabled




Hi mate

These articles might be of help,


www.atimes.com...



www.atimes.com...



www.atimes.com...

The first thing I would like to get out of the way here is this misconception where everyone pretends Gaddafi was loved by all average citizens. Can one of you here tell me one world leader in the last century that was actually loved by all his fellow citizenry? I can't think of one democratically elected leader that was loved by more than 50%. Trying to find a dictator that was loved by every person would be even harder.

Now contextualise Libya for a minute. While it only has 6,000,000 citizens it isn't exactly the most stable of states (clearly evidenced in the civil unrest- believe it or not). Within Libya there is a deep rooted tribal society that is both fractured and frictional. The Western tribes specifically Gaddafi's and those associated have been the best off, while the Eastern tribes (where most the oil is) have seen there oil money diverted to infastructure in Western Libya. They have come off second best, with the third probably being the deeply Islamic and often fundementalist South (that is where the protests in relation to the Norweigien images of Muhhamed were).

So the first thing you should understand is that Libya isn't some magical utopia where Gaddafi took the oil money and gave it to the people. Social cohesion in America and most Western nations (while it has been steadily reducing at times) is relatively stable. In Libya it is not. Libya is an oil economy which has failed to industrialize (which is seen as the first step to becoming a developed country- the next being becoming a service based economy). During Gaddafi's reign 200,000 Africans were employed (mostly Sub-Saharan). Libya only has a population of 6,000,000. There was 30% unemployment.

Yes. It was the best off African country no doubt. But it had a deeply entrentched and complex beurucratic system. The people's congress was in most cases a sham and at the end of the day all major decisions would go to Gaddafi, his sons and his inner circle.

So to recap, Libya was relatively wealthy compared to the rest of Africa. Gaddafi failed to diversify and industralize the economy. That mixed together with the rise in the Middle and Lower-Middle class, higher education and an increase in the political activity of the elite class largely contributed to the civil unrest. In my analytical opinion.

Now that we have the general truth out of the way, do I think the 2nd Libyan 'revolution' is a positive. Yes and no. Yes for the fact that there trully is a desire for more free and democratic governance and no for a multitude of reasons.
a) Not all the rebels care about democracy, they are simply power hungry
b) There are islamist sections which will gain from this
c) They do not have the beuracratic capacity, man power and infastructure to "push the paper" in a democracy
e) Mob rule would marganalize specific tribes (those who profited from Gaddafi) and result in even greater instability
f) It seems un-natural. This (to me) is clearly shown by the fact that it required outside intervention for the revolution to make any headway
g) Primitive desires for revenge in Libya will be and currently are far to strong
f) I frankly don't want to witness a failed state, blundering their resources and becoming a hotbed for Islamic extremism.

Hopefully this revolution won't turn out like that. Hopefully it will against all odds produce a stable, free and democratic (yet run by rule of law not mob rule) state. However I really doubt things will be better then they were under Gaddafi (and things evidently weren't that great as some think they were).

I know most here want to tune into the conspiracy aspect, however in some cases it either isn't true or isn't as clean cut as they say it is. No doubt foreign governments, financial institutions and corporations will profit from this rebellion. It is a proven fact that there is no evidence to sustain the fact that mercanaries existed and it has been proven un-true that Gaddafi initially bombed his own people. Initially he bombed weapons compounds with jets no civillian infastructure. Any civillians killed were most likely there to steal some weapons. Not to mention the initial number of 1,000 killed demonstrators was revised down to 200 dead people including law enforcment. However does this detract from the fact that a large slice (probably majority) didn't like Gaddafi (especiially the young who cant find employment for their level of education and haven't seen the benefits of his regime as they were to young to see the negatives of the old monarcy)? No. Frankly he was a nasty bastard. As is Obama, as was Bush, as is Assad, as is Putin, as is David Cameron and as is almost every other world leader.