Mathematics Is Wrong. Here's Why.

and just trust me...this genius didn't figure out the secret to math. the guy/girl who really has the secret prolly isn't even on this site. that person is either a) not saying a word about it, or b) is about to publish a paper on it. i know if i had rock solid proof of off-earth civilizations, i'd never say a word about. i'd go to my grave before i'd ever, EVER put worlds in danger to satisy my ego. you can bet your house on that.

but that's just me.

Originally posted by Blinded

The biggest challenge to todays physicists is how to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics. However, these two pillars of modern science were bound to be incompatible. "The universe of general relativity is a smooth rubber sheet. It is continuous and flowing, never sharp, never pointy. Quantum mechanics, on the other hand, describes a jerky and discontinuous universe. What the two theories have in common -- and what they clash over -- is zero." "The infinite zero of a black hole -- mass crammed into zero space, curving space infinitely -- punches a hole in the smooth rubber sheet. The equations of general relativity cannot deal with the sharpness of zero. In a black hole, space and time are meaningless."

Well perhaps these problems arise from assuming that 0 has an existence when it clearly does not. It is assumed that 0 is a working number when it clearly is not.

It should truly be replaced with infinity so at least the derivation of any number has that original potential for the manifestation.

In 0 there is no potential. 0 is disclusive even to itself. Infinity is inclusive even to itself. This is the main difference between 0 and infinity. Both are formless.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Infinity is a starting point. I argue that infinity is THE starting point of the universe due to the fact that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So mathematically, energy looks like (energy) times infinity. So you have infinitely lasting energy, and you also have infinity. No matter the operation, infinity cannot be separated from anything. The existence of anything can be traced back to infinity and still has its connection with infinity.

My friend you unwittingly just discovered the "God" variable through your analysis of math, infinite energy that has always existed. This infinite energy was used to build all the atomic particles in the universe known as mass.

E = mc^2

Originally posted by lkpuede

Originally posted by Smack
reply to post by chr0naut

 

And let's not forget the exhaustive treatise: "Principia Mathematica". en.wikipedia.org...

I think the OP has a lot of studying left to do.

you know he, like about 95% of people around these parts, just dream # up and then post it. it's makes no sense. it's 0+0+17. if he was so convinced about his theoy, he'd publish it. plain and simple. he, like anyone else, can put together a paper and submit it for peer review. he doesn't have to have a doctorate. he doesn't even have to have a GED. just put a paper together in the correct format and send it in.

but he won't do that...he'll sit all day and watch his post. see who else commented on it, so his day has some meaning.

however, at the end of the day, it will just be a bunch of words on the ATS forum that we can entertain ourselves with.

Actually my friend, I have an overriding intention to at some point publish a book, but in order to do so, I'll need more than one page of information. Actually, I'd rather have the information out there so that others may benefit from it in some way than to selfishly sit on it and keep it to myself. If I were to die before I published the book, then the information would be lost, and that would be extremely selfish of me.

Nevertheless, I will always post to the public before I gather all I know into a single book and publish it for profit.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Blinded

The biggest challenge to todays physicists is how to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics. However, these two pillars of modern science were bound to be incompatible. "The universe of general relativity is a smooth rubber sheet. It is continuous and flowing, never sharp, never pointy. Quantum mechanics, on the other hand, describes a jerky and discontinuous universe. What the two theories have in common -- and what they clash over -- is zero." "The infinite zero of a black hole -- mass crammed into zero space, curving space infinitely -- punches a hole in the smooth rubber sheet. The equations of general relativity cannot deal with the sharpness of zero. In a black hole, space and time are meaningless."

Well perhaps these problems arise from assuming that 0 has an existence when it clearly does not. It is assumed that 0 is a working number when it clearly is not.

It should truly be replaced with infinity so at least the derivation of any number has that original potential for the manifestation.

In 0 there is no potential. 0 is disclusive even to itself. Infinity is inclusive even to itself. This is the main difference between 0 and infinity. Both are formless.

whatever...zero is before 1. without zero, there can be no 1. is it really that hard? without zero, there can be no infinity. zero is the starting point. 1 is NOT the starting point. something has to exist before 1 can exist, and we've chose that to be zero. so you plan is to replace zero with infinity. even the dullest of imaginations can see that cannot be the case. how can infinity come before 1. i'm mean seriously, please claify that cause i just cannot for the life of me get my head around that. and please explain it in plain english so everybody can understand it. oh and by the way, infinity is not with out form. it's just so large and we are so small we cannot see it. just as we are so small within the universe, we cannot see the end of it. that does not mean it is without form. it has a form. we just can't see it.

Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Understand....I know what you mean about infinity...but zero...really can it be disputed in a mathematical way that makes sense...I would love to hear it....2 - 2 is still nothing...and that is what zero represents....so how do you come up with and infinite possible in that equation?

Of course we don't want to infer religion into this but infinity is a symbol that carry a weight of understanding in mathematics...are you purposing a change?

Is it possible that instead of having zero oranges we are left with -2 oranges. I had 2 lost 2 leaving me with -2.

so we exist inside infinty, i start with - infinity and + infinity but can never have zero, can only have values assigned expressed as + or - I can never have nothing. I can be without something or negative that something.?

It is also important to note that numbers that arise from 0 exist to themselves as separate from everything and therefore should not be able to be involved in any computing with other numbers because they have nothing that allows them to exist in the same space.

Numbers that arise from infinity remain connected to infinity, so mathematical calculations using any finite value are possible because they remain in the context of a bound set even within the equations themselves.

In other words, in 0 based math, when 1 arises, it is in no way connected to the context of 2 if it arises. There is no platform for it to arise as part of a system.

Infinity, on the other hand, is a platform for any numbers to arise and still be connected to the system in which they are operating.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by lkpuede

Originally posted by Smack
reply to post by chr0naut

 

And let's not forget the exhaustive treatise: "Principia Mathematica". en.wikipedia.org...

I think the OP has a lot of studying left to do.

you know he, like about 95% of people around these parts, just dream # up and then post it. it's makes no sense. it's 0+0+17. if he was so convinced about his theoy, he'd publish it. plain and simple. he, like anyone else, can put together a paper and submit it for peer review. he doesn't have to have a doctorate. he doesn't even have to have a GED. just put a paper together in the correct format and send it in.

but he won't do that...he'll sit all day and watch his post. see who else commented on it, so his day has some meaning.

however, at the end of the day, it will just be a bunch of words on the ATS forum that we can entertain ourselves with.

Actually my friend, I have an overriding intention to at some point publish a book, but in order to do so, I'll need more than one page of information. Actually, I'd rather have the information out there so that others may benefit from it in some way than to selfishly sit on it and keep it to myself. If I were to die before I published the book, then the information would be lost, and that would be extremely selfish of me.

Nevertheless, I will always post to the public before I gather all I know into a single book and publish it for profit.

yea well that's just a whole bunch of Who Shot John. a paper doesn't have to be 10 million pages to make it's point. if you were so serious, you would publish what you have, and others will agree with you, and help you flesh out your theory. waiting to write a book about the most ground shaking theory since the creation of the zero seems a bit silly to me. and besides, you found this site. surely there is in existance somewhere on the interwebs that will publish that rather wordy explaination of the fallacy of modern mathmatics, and will reach a wider populance then can be reached at ATS.

just sayin...

If you believe in infinity you must believe anything that can be measured exists in infinity.

Time = Never started or will never end

Size = you can not achieve the smallest or biggest particle

Temperature = there is no coldest or hottest temperature

Can you think of any other measurements that fall into this way of thinking

Maybe speed? That one is always related to perception of where you measure from but in infinity everything is moving and will never attain non movement. You may feel still but the planet is moving, as is our solar system and the viewable universe we are within.

Can you think of any more?

Great Video about ∞. Not that new but still a great watch. As far as ∞ replacing zero I think your just playing word games. We have to have a representation of nothing. Say you have the number 1001 you still have to have nothing in the hundreds and tens places. As far as using ∞ as a base instead of zero for multiplication and division how does it make more sense to say ∞ x n= ∞(n) than to say nothing multiplied by n is nothing...

What your saying makes no sense. Infinity is already used in mathematics along side zero. It is mostly used in set mathematics to describe uncountable numbers. And it has a very important place. Zero used in nearly all mathematics is just as important as a base and foundation.

Both Infinity and zero do not physically exist. There is nothing that goes on forever, and zero is the term we give to the absence of quantity. It can't be there because the reason it is is because there isn't anything there. If you think about it, it's like the darkness. Light rays allow us to see, however when the light rays are gone there is darkness. But there are no Dark rays, meaning the darkness isn't actually there. So you're trying to compare and relate two things that don't even exist.

However, mathematically speaking, Zero DOES exist, and infinity again does not. Say i had a bag of apples (let's call this bag A) and you had a bag of apples (B) now, in A there are five apples. In B, zero. If you give me all the apples in your bag you have given me zero apples. If x is the apples in your bag and y the apples in mine, x+y=y.
If i asked you how many apples you had, your answer would be zero.

infinity cannot be quatified. 0 can be understood as we can see or maybe not see i should say when we have reached 0. Infinity however cannot be comprehended because it would take an unlimited mind to grasp the scale as it dosent even have a scale. Hang on maybe your right if both dont exist. Im dizzy and need to lie down.

0 is a number, zero that represents the "nothing", infinity is not a number, infinity could be anything. Mathematics is not flawed, I guess we could add infinity befor or after zero, but that is already the case in mathematics, infinity exists because of mathematics, zero is therefor necessary. Without zero you do not have a point to define infinity, so without zero infinity does not exist.

Here is where your logic is flawed, to be able to multiply 0 by 1 you must add 1 before multiplying, without adding you, are just multiplying 1 of nothing with 1 of nothing.

Mathematics 101

reply to post by smithjustinb


This is definitely going to be a fun thread! I have similar views as well. When I have time, I'll be back to read thoroughly all comments and chime in with my .02

The concept of Zero is attributed to the Hindus. The Hindus were also the first to use zero in the way it is used today. Some symbol was required in positional number systems to mark the place of a power of the base not actually occurring. This was indicated by the Hindus by a small circle, which was called Shunya, the Sanskrit word for vacant. This was translated into the Arabic Sifr about 800 A.D. Subsequent changes have given us the word zero.

In Babylone by middle of the 2nd millenium BC, the lack of a positional value (or zero) was indicated by a space between sexagesimal numerals.

In 498 AD the Indian mathematician and astronomer Aryabhatta stated that Sthanam sthanam dasha gunam means place to place in ten times in value, which may be the origin of the modern decimal-based place value notation. Arabs spread the Hindu decimal zero and its new mathematics to Europe in the Middle Ages.

Originally posted by kbriggss
If you believe in infinity you must believe anything that can be measured exists in infinity.

Time = Never started or will never end

Size = you can not achieve the smallest or biggest particle

Temperature = there is no coldest or hottest temperature

Can you think of any other measurements that fall into this way of thinking

Maybe speed? That one is always related to perception of where you measure from but in infinity everything is moving and will never attain non movement. You may feel still but the planet is moving, as is our solar system and the viewable universe we are within.

Can you think of any more?

False:

Time: began during the big bang, time has not being going on forever, it's been going on for 14 billion years.

Size: smallest length possible is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 m, and physically speaking anything can be broken down into millions of tiny particles meaning that say an elephant can be broken down till its particles are so tiny they aren't visible. But technically, The Universe is the largest thing, and it has a maximum size.

Temperature: Absolute zero is the coldest possible temperature. however, the hottest temperature is interesting, as there is no absolute "hot" but ill be looking into that.

Forgive me as I'm not the most proficient or experienced mathematician, though I have taken some upper level math courses because of my major.

I thought, the axiom x/0 = undefined (where x is any number), is just a rule that mathematicians have agreed upon? Since you need somewhere to begin, you need to define some terminology before you can continue, such as for example: 0 + n = n or 0 * n = 0 etc.

Again, i could be wrong (which i may be) but i remember taking a linear algebra course where we had to go through and prove all 10 axioms.

Originally posted by AuirOverrun
Both Infinity and zero do not physically exist. There is nothing that goes on forever, and zero is the term we give to the absence of quantity.

Infinity and nothing do not exist as a manifest expression. 0 does not exist because energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Infinity does exist for this reason. Energy goes on forever. There is no objective absence of quantity. You can say you have two apples and you take away two apples, but its not that there are 0 apples, its just that those 2 apples are now in a different location. Subjectively, you could say you have 0 apples, although those apples exist independently of your ownership of them.

It can't be there because the reason it is is because there isn't anything there. If you think about it, it's like the darkness. Light rays allow us to see, however when the light rays are gone there is darkness. But there are no Dark rays, meaning the darkness isn't actually there. So you're trying to compare and relate two things that don't even exist.

I am comparting two things where one allows existence and the other does not.

However, mathematically speaking, Zero DOES exist, and infinity again does not. Say i had a bag of apples (let's call this bag A) and you had a bag of apples (B) now, in A there are five apples. In B, zero. If you give me all the apples in your bag you have given me zero apples. If x is the apples in your bag and y the apples in mine, x+y=y.
If i asked you how many apples you had, your answer would be zero.

edit on 29-8-2011 by AuirOverrun because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-8-2011 by AuirOverrun because: (no reason given)

Again, this is subjective, and mathematics is supposed to be the most objective tool we have. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, so if you have some quantity of energy, and now you don't, that enerrgy which is independent of ownership still exists. When numbers arise, they arise in their own existence and are not dependent on another number. Infinity allows for this. 0 implies that to even multiply 2*3, you have to count to 6 first. Infinity allows these numbers to arise in whatever position is equal to their value and continue to maintain their reference.

I have always considered infinity and zero as reference points. Do you remember number line. No matter where on the infinity line you use/observe as zero, maths rules remain the same relative to that point. So you are correct in one sense, but maths is correct because it does not treat zero or infinity as absolutes, but as mere references.

If you take a Physics Theory class such as i have .... you will learn that Math is the perception of the world around you.

Mathmatics is nothing but a big ole Theory.

There is no Mathmatical facts , Its Mathmatical Theorims.

We had Physics Theories that blew Mathmatical expressions out of the Water , and you couldnt figure it up, but through known truths , and far left field dimensional algorithms.

You also have the ever looming presence of Imaginary numbers.

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So , when you said Mathmatics is wrong. Its is not. Its our perception of the world around us. Secondly , Mathmatics is a Theorim.

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Yes Theoritcal Physics also uses Philosophy to explain it self. Very interesting stuff if you have the stomach for it.

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Also , i dont know why you keep using Infinity. If you take a Physics class , everything is attempted to be explained. When you say infinity , its an easy way out for you to explain things you dont understand. Get infinity out of your head , its just a never ending point and a never starting starting point. Infinity doesnt exist. When explaining physics.

You make a start point and a end point. You have to go in thinking what you want the Equations / Algorithms you form to accomplish. (Theoretical Physics). Its just accepted Truths.

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So again , Conclusion. Our Mathmatics arnt wrong (The Forumulas) its what we want them to be / know them to be through our understanding. Its a Theory , so we can change when ever we want using accepted truths. In reality if you get the accepted truth of an equation correct .... then its correct however if you get the equation wrong against the accepted truth , then its wrong in our eyes.

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