Woman encourages husband to sleep with 12 year old to go on the government dole.

reply to post by newcovenant


Thank you so, so so terribly much. This show, I must watch it!

It looks like a documentary version of Squidbillies (underrated, imo)

www.youtube.com...

There is something fascinating and disgusting about rednecks and crackers. (I am white, not racist). It is hard to even judge them for things like this; they live in a completely alien world.

reply to post by newcovenant


It's the look of a legit idiot, a dolt. I would be a sum of money if their iq was to be tested they would score very near mentally retarded and I'm not using hyperbole here.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's impossible to even begin to justify the rape of a 12 year old child. (No sex involved...at 12, it's rape, period).

Not that I am siding with this family, but this ordeal all began after the child admitted to her foster parents that she was sexually active already. At 12.

Are you going to bring up charges on the boy that had consensual sex with her? At what age does conent begin? Nowadays, kids are having sex 4-5 years before 18. It is a crazy world out there now, and most of the boys out there are what you would call "serial statutory rapists" if they were over 18, but if they are 17 its OK?

I wanna know; how is a guy with a shaved head, who lives in FLORIDA, the sunshine state, so damn pasty white?

Its either inbreeding or the loser never left the house and either lived off his wife's income or government benefit money.

I mean, seriously, not even a little bit of tan in Florida. Something's gotta be up with that guy.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's impossible to even begin to justify the rape of a 12 year old child. (No sex involved...at 12, it's rape, period).

Not that I am siding with this family, but this ordeal all began after the child admitted to her foster parents that she was sexually active already. At 12.

Are you going to bring up charges on the boy that had consensual sex with her? At what age does conent begin? Nowadays, kids are having sex 4-5 years before 18. It is a crazy world out there now, and most of the boys out there are what you would call "serial statutory rapists" if they were over 18, but if they are 17 its OK?

I'm a little lost as to what you're saying here? If the little girl is sexually active with people in her age group, it's a sad statement of our times, but I would never advocate criminal charges for a couple kids playing 'Doctor'. However, it should make no difference what the personal life of the 12yr old may or may not have been.

The husband who raped her is 26 years old. Age or Statutory Rape questions are so far outside this case, I'm baffled as to how the question even comes in? Just for clarification, the age of consent in Florida for sexual relation with someone over the age of 24 is 18. Florida's official age of consent is 16 as I read their code, but that does NOT apply if the older in the situation is OVER 24. So, any way you cut it, from any angle you may want to look, these two raped a 12 year old little girl for personal profit and obscene greed.

As to what age makes 25-life vs. lesser offenses? Well, in the state of Florida, I believe that is a black and white matter of law and it's 12. For reference here is a basic summary of 'Jessica's Law' in Florida.

Jessica's Law

Unfortunately, or perhaps very knowingly, they missed the magic age for Life in Prison by months with this victim. At least they are still going down hard for it. Florida is one of the worst states in the nation to be a criminal, not to mention a sexual one. Only Texas would have been worse for these two.

reply to post by newcovenant


I have seen that entire, can you call it a film?, piece with the Whites. When I originally saw it, I was under the impression it was a "mockumentary", made to look real but entirely scripted. Come to find out, it was an actual documentary, this family is real and their stories are real. It is disturbing to see people live in such a way, and what makes it worse is the thought that this is just one example of a far more common picture, especially in the south.

reply to post by newcovenant


I have seen that entire, can you call it a film?, piece with the Whites. When I originally saw it, I was under the impression it was a "mockumentary", made to look real but entirely scripted. Come to find out, it was an actual documentary, this family is real and their stories are real. It is disturbing to see people live in such a way, and what makes it worse is the thought that this is just one example of a far more common picture, especially in the south.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's impossible to even begin to justify the rape of a 12 year old child. (No sex involved...at 12, it's rape, period).

Not that I am siding with this family, but this ordeal all began after the child admitted to her foster parents that she was sexually active already. At 12.

Are you going to bring up charges on the boy that had consensual sex with her? At what age does conent begin? Nowadays, kids are having sex 4-5 years before 18. It is a crazy world out there now, and most of the boys out there are what you would call "serial statutory rapists" if they were over 18, but if they are 17 its OK?

I'm a little lost as to what you're saying here? If the little girl is sexually active with people in her age group, it's a sad statement of our times, but I would never advocate criminal charges for a couple kids playing 'Doctor'. However, it should make no difference what the personal life of the 12yr old may or may not have been.

The husband who raped her is 26 years old. Age or Statutory Rape questions are so far outside this case, I'm baffled as to how the question even comes in? Just for clarification, the age of consent in Florida for sexual relation with someone over the age of 24 is 18. Florida's official age of consent is 16 as I read their code, but that does NOT apply if the older in the situation is OVER 24. So, any way you cut it, from any angle you may want to look, these two raped a 12 year old little girl for personal profit and obscene greed.

As to what age makes 25-life vs. lesser offenses? Well, in the state of Florida, I believe that is a black and white matter of law and it's 12. For reference here is a basic summary of 'Jessica's Law' in Florida.

Jessica's Law

Unfortunately, or perhaps very knowingly, they missed the magic age for Life in Prison by months with this victim. At least they are still going down hard for it. Florida is one of the worst states in the nation to be a criminal, not to mention a sexual one. Only Texas would have been worse for these two.

A 15 year old banging a 13 year old is not "playing doctor" Quit making excuses and euphemisms. They are having SEX. Not "playing", or "learning", or "experimenting". They are engaging in hot, sweaty sex. Of course someone in their 20s having sex with a 12 year old is revolting. But my point is that these kids are making adult decisions, so you cant just call "rape" if the sex is under 18. You even say yourself "well if it is the same age group, it is OK". WHY?? That makes no sense. What you are saying is that a 13 year old can consent to sex with a 17 year old legally, but if she likes an 18 year old and consents, then the 18 year old is guilty of rape. WHY?

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Agreed, consent is independent of age.

These sort of news stories never give us enough details to understand what has happened. In this case, we do not know if the 12 year old girl was complicit in this plan. We do not know whether or not she consented. We do not know why she was living with these people or if she already had a sexual relationship with the husband. None of these things will ever be known to us because the law regards minors, especially when sex is involved, as mental invalids.

The news loves to give us these enraging tit-bits, but they never give the full picture. It is irresponsible tabloid journalism, it is Nancy-Grace-ism.

reply to post by FortAnthem


"Unfortunately the privacy rights of the minor trump all" ?

I'm pretty glad this child doesn't have to face the added burden of every Joe Schmoe knowing she was the victim of a heinous sex crime.

In fact I'd be pretty disgusted if any media outlet even thought of reporting the name of a 12 year old rape victim for all to see.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
They look like a classy crew.

They LOOK like those same people in Arizona whose little girl was abused and punished by getting locked in a chest where she died. There is something about this set of facial characteristics that leads to no good. I don't know what it is, inbreeding or something to do with the low forehead and overhanging brow the misshapen head and down turned mouth. Maybe there is some way to identify possible criminals before they ruin their lives and somebody elses by looking at kids, examining their heads, maybe testing them for social skills and the ones that look or act a little retarded or dysfunctional already - get them some EXTRA help. I know how harsh that sounds. I don't care. Go to this link and look at the 5 suspects in this case. They all look like they are from the same damn family. I should start a thread on physiognomy. www.huffingtonpost.com...&title=John_Allen

edit on 28-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

You know, I think you may be onto something there. The guy in that picture in the OP, the guy you mentioned here in AZ, Jared Loughner, and about ten years back there was a guy who took his 6 year old daughter and set her on fire in a church in Apache Junction. They all look eerily similar.

I'm not making fun of the menatlly challenged who are good people, but they and freaks I just mentioned all have the same "look" that identifies them for what they are.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Agreed, consent is independent of age.

This is all I am trying to say.

It is supposedly illegal to enter a contract with anyone under 18. But online services and game companies do this all the time. A contract with a minor under 18 is invalid. But that doesnt stop companies from screwing kids out of their money. And when it happens, they are told "Thats life, kid", or "You cant fight the system, kid".

The irrational double standards in this country never cease to amaze me.

reply to post by rayuki


My Mom had ten and we were never on government assistance our wholes lives.

Sure, we had to share clothes that we bought from Consignment stores, but that's another story. the point is , don't be so judgmental.

reply to post by aching_knuckles

I'll just leave it with this, before a real disagreement might break out. Some people have hard lines and a black and white approach to basic tenets of right and wrong and some don't. A 26 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old girl is wrong. Simply, clear and without gray area to me. Everything else about what if this or that with an entirely different person of a different age is window dressing and has nothing whatever to do with the case the thread started with.

If one spends time reading everything available, it sounds like the girl was willing and the woman sat over to the side and watched after basically arranging the whole thing with the little girl in advance. What difference does it make though? If she had been 10 or 7 would THAT then be a clear enough line? Or would it have to be younger still? 12 years old is absolutely child-rape IMHO. That is a clear line of right and wrong. No room for gray.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If she had been 10 or 7 would THAT then be a clear enough line? Or would it have to be younger still? 12 years old is absolutely child-rape IMHO. That is a clear line of right and wrong. No room for gray.

In all fairness you probably do acknowledge the gray area at the other end of the spectrum, when it's say a 17 yr old girl with a 19 yr old boy in a State with 18yr consent law.

I understand your argument and your feelings on this, and i think I am siding more with you on this ultimately. However, the counter points being brought up are quite valid! There is most definitely an arbitrary gray area.

The ability to give sexual consent (mentally, emotionally) could not possibly be given a definitive general age range. You couldn't possibly determine that without looking at each individual case. I believe in the consent laws, they are put in place to protect kids. And they generally probably do. That doesn't mean a young girl can't give consent, or actually be in love with an older guy. The age of consent is just a best guess, not a science.

About your question concerning where the line is drawn, the distinction to be made. Well I do think 10 and 7 is too young, as I don't believe they could give sexual consent. Some countries put the age of consent at puberty. Maybe there is something to that... if you are not reproductive, you don't have a sex drive. If you don't understand what sex is, how could you really give sexual consent. So at the very least, it has to be no younger then reproductive age. That's a sure line to be drawn imo.

However I would not have the age of consent be puberty+ (12?). What I would do is find the average age when teens become sexually active, and start it there. Which is probably 14 or 15.

@Aching_knuckles. You raise a good question, if I am understanding you right. At what age would a young boy be a "rapist" if he's having consentual sex with a 12 year old... or something to this effect.It is probably a different age for many states. I am no lawyer. For a developmental point of view, since the 12 year old girl is simply not yet capable of even beginning to understand the feelings she may just be starting to have, if at all, then her consent is irrelevant. Anyone having sex with her is raping her both in actuality and constructively.Even a ten year old boy would have to be handled as a rapist of some kind. A full adult male perpetrating such an act, well, we all know what we'd like to do to him. The question is how has he come to this point in his personal evolution where he could even entertain such an idea? Sure we could haul him into the dark alley for some "therapy" or we could even end his days, but we would be far more intelligent to discover what has gone wrong in his head and start working from there.

Such a perpetrator desperately needs much, much therapy (correction) followed by possible punitive action depending upon the particulars.

Wow. The thought of this case is highly disturbing.

Originally posted by Malkuth

For a developmental point of view, since the 12 year old girl is simply not yet capable of even beginning to understand the feelings she may just be starting to have, if at all, then her consent is irrelevant.

Even a ten year old boy would have to be handled as a rapist of some kind.

What do you mean?

If the young girl is incapable of understanding sex and thus a 'victim', then why wouldn't this young boy be pardoned with the same reasoning?

reply to post by FortAnthem

They are sick people. I guess she proberly got with him when he was a teenager . Maybe its a cult that lives in the swamps . Gene pool is definately not the best . I do believe in forced strilization in cetain cases . Children should not be forced to take birth in this type of family .

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

...
None of these things will ever be known to us because the law regards minors, especially when sex is involved, as mental invalids.
The news ... never give the full picture. It is irresponsible tabloid journalism, ...

Oh my god, this is so true. Half truths. The media is full of these half-truths and we the readers can not be entirely sure as to what the whole story really is. The facts might be completely true independently and in and of themselves; but when pieced together differently and with some left out, it can create an entirely different story.

This particular situation can spin several different ways. The girl's sexual activity, the government benefit sham plan, and how the entire thing went down could be missing facts as others have stated in previous posts... Which is why the media is a horrible source for information.

Though the whole premise is completely and utterly disturbing no matter how you spin it....

reply to post by illuminatislave

Both of these people should be executed in the most barbaric fashion possible.

I used to be against the death penalty, but after three decades on this planet I realize that some people just deserve to die. Horribly.

Horribly? Where do you suppose you fall on this list of "some people"?