Top 10 Reasons to Believe in Jesus - Evidence for Faith

reply to post by racasan
Joy would be a side affect but not the goal.
The goal would be to do something which would effect the world hopefully for the better.

reply to post by MamaJ

Oh yeah....I believe this thread is about JESUS. Lets stay on topic please and if you care to have a conversation with me....do it with your own words (I kindly ask of you again), otherwise you may feel free to speak to the other posters about said topic....JESUS.

My apologies to yourself and the OP, I'm sure I'm not the only participant creating tangents (wink) and thus far the OP, and/or moderators are yet to object - Perhaps because they considered it a friendly exchange?

Evidence for Faith

I'll leave this thread in SuperiorEd's hands, I've already higlighted the oxy-moron in the title, I'm yet to get an answer, and as per the usual; the explanations are vague, and somewhat unconvincing.

Faith is belief religious dogma in the absence of evidence, loyality to a set of beliefs without question, if there was "evidence" for it, it woudn't be called faith. And we certainly wouldn't be having this debate.

Good day, Jenn.

reply to post by racasan


Thanks for your response, and I would in general like to justify this little excursion we have at the fringe of topic.

Most of the claims in OP have been build up around a predetermined answer, with 'facts' and 'methodology' adapted to fit this answer (which is the umpteenth time I say this.... this week,..... but there are always those who center on ONE post and ignore everything else).

And as with most things in a theist context both 'answer', 'facts' and 'methodology' are highly debatable from the perspective of rational reasoning and most of the arguments from both sides never get across, and there are no 'absolutes' to refer to, as practically all the theist components are in the 'agnostic' category...non-quantifiable.

This is where pragmatism comes in. It's not sophisticated, it doesn't rely on any recognized epistemological system of truth-seeking and it's not testable with objectibe procedure.

But nonetheless...if I with reiki-healing can stop headaches nine times out of ten....if 'holy spirits' (judging from what's observable and what's described subjectively) aren't copyrighted to a single religion....if the 'mind' has many mysterious ways for enhanced experiences....if people experience different anomalies across culture boundaries...well then this is where we with some certainty can start.

And it doesn't matter if any 'answer' turns out to be unknown brain-functions, hitherho scientifically unexamined 'energies', fairies, 'small gods' or 'big gods'. This is where we reasonably start, instead of with THE answer.

Repeating this I'm as boring as any preacher of doctrinal slogans, but apparently it's necessary to primtively hammer home this message until it's recieved: A predetermined, doctrinal 'answer' without evidence is a FAITH. And faiths are OK if everybody is free to choose his/her own version without interference of ANY kind (that's a separate subject).

For those not wanting faiths, but facts (as this is usually defined) we START with the facts, however small they are, we START with reliable methodologies, however small they are, and we settle for 'answers' resulting from such a procedure, however small these answers are.

Anyone pretending a rational approach must follow this self-defined frame. Or intellectually honest make their own version and name it correspondingly. That's fair for everybody.

These 'energies' we recently have talked about, is one facet of theist picture and e.g. taking this facet up to a serious examination should be an automatically given part of the greater atheist/theist debate. But bleep, some theists with pseudo-rational aspirations have to be DRAGGED just to that point, making excuses and deflective maneuvers all the way. And when we sometimes finally arrive to such an examination, we are met with fake-methodologies, playing under false colours.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
I recently took a big dump in the toilet and upon observation of my own feces I yelled out "Holy Jesus!!!"...Does that make me Christian? Just asking.

Classy! Now....although you are real funny .....I wonder if you will say that to his face when you are "dead"?

Will you be laughing? I really wonder.

What will this loving god do if you laugh and say it to his face? Will this loving god smite you? Kill you? Send you to hell? How loving!

Originally posted by MartyMcFlyJr

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
I recently took a big dump in the toilet and upon observation of my own feces I yelled out "Holy Jesus!!!"...Does that make me Christian? Just asking.

Classy! Now....although you are real funny .....I wonder if you will say that to his face when you are "dead"?

Will you be laughing? I really wonder.

What will this loving god do if you laugh and say it to his face? Will this loving god smite you? Kill you? Send you to hell? How loving!

Ha! I have no idea....I guess you should ask him or find out for yourself. I sure won't do it. I will pass on that one.

reply to post by MamaJ


While MartyMcFly's at it; maybe he should tell him there's a bunch of starving african children that want a word.

reply to post by NeverForget


Oh....I consider it a friendly exchange as well but I have been known to go off topic a couple of times and would not like to be policed again.

I do not mind going back and forth with you in regards to topic....no problem at all.

reply to post by MamaJ


Thanks, Jenn.

I've exhausted all I have to say on the matter. I may see you around in other threads. Although Jesus can't be proved; I'd be happy to discuss his strengths and weaknesses amongst his alledged preaching.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by MartyMcFlyJr

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
I recently took a big dump in the toilet and upon observation of my own feces I yelled out "Holy Jesus!!!"...Does that make me Christian? Just asking.

Classy! Now....although you are real funny .....I wonder if you will say that to his face when you are "dead"?

Will you be laughing? I really wonder.

What will this loving god do if you laugh and say it to his face? Will this loving god smite you? Kill you? Send you to hell? How loving!

Ha! I have no idea....I guess you should ask him or find out for yourself. I sure won't do it. I will pass on that one.

So it was initially a rhetorical question on your part? To what purpose?

You haven't listed one bit of evidence. Blind faith in itself leaves no room for evidence. Evidence comes from science, not a book that has been picked apart and added to since it's shadowy creation.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by MamaJ

 

While MartyMcFly's at it; maybe he should tell him there's a bunch of starving african children that want a word.

edit on 31/8/2011 by NeverForget because: (no reason given)

I promise that if I even meet a christian god, I will bring that up!

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by MamaJ

 

While MartyMcFly's at it; maybe he should tell him there's a bunch of starving african children that want a word.

edit on 31/8/2011 by NeverForget because: (no reason given)

There are plenty of issues I could blame on others but I take full responsibility for my actions. Our actions as a whole unit here on Earth are pretty sad. Maybe you should take it up with our Leaders. They are the ones in charge "down here".

You can blame all your woes or the Planets woes on God or you can step up to the plate and do something about it. I give to the Leukemia Society and help around my neighborhood and of course my friends and family as well.

If WE ALL helped our neighbor and or treated them as we wanted to be treated the world would be a better place.

Cause and effect! Law.

Originally posted by RicoMarston

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by Trolloks
"I believe the bible is the exact word of god"
"No its not dad, and I can prove it to you. Go get your bible"
"OK"
"What does it say on the cover?"
"Holy Bible"
"What else?"
"King James Version"
"I rest my case"
- Bill Hicks.

The Bible is the reflection (image) of the Word of God. The Living Word is Jesus (Logos). The Bible contains God and man in the image. We reflect on the Bible and see ourselves in the reflection, as in a mirror. If you only see man in the Bible, you are only looking for yourself in the reflection. Pride causes this self to be the one you love. God is there as well and must be found apart from pride. Knock and the door will be opened. Just don't expect to find God in love if you do not love Him. If you seek a mate in life, will they give you the time of day if you are focused on your own self-love? Can you love another if you are only filled with love for yourself? This is the Genesis 3 pride.

so that was basically just an elaborate way of saying "pick and choose the good parts, the parts you agree with, and scrap the rest!" What if I see god's reflection in the parts of the bible which endorse slavery and domestic abuse and torture? You say potato, I say justification for brutality and horror.

Not at all. Pick a part you don't like and I'll expound on it form the Matthew Henry commentary. If you pull a verse out from any OT book, the commentaries can put the passage into context anywhere in the Bible. Send one my way and I'll provide the context. There are no passages in the Bible that are not reflective of a just and loving God.

reply to post by MamaJ

If WE ALL helped our neighbor and or treated them as we wanted to be treated the world would be a better place.

Of course, I'm all with you on that goal; an ultimately altruistic civilisation. But man can't be blamed for life on a climatic knife-edge (where life dies due to heat or cold) man can't be blamed for disasters like Haiti, or disease. Certainly, in some instances, we can try to prevent it.....

We actively go AGAINST God's "design" to combat natural diseases such as polio, or leprosy.

Again, this is off-topic, I would urge Christians to be more Christ-like if I agreed with Christ's preaching as a whole. But I don't, and some of his preaching i find to be rather reprehensible, I feel martyrs that have come after Jesus (if he existed) have much improved on his "teachings".

reply to post by bogomil


Well the question was simply a question Bogo and it was not for you nor for the others...I am still awaiting a reply from the one that I asked. I have no idea how God would feel about it...I am sure saddened...if you really wanna know .

Jesus can't be proved;

reply to post by NeverForget


You mean....YOU cannot prove Jesus? Please do not speak for the rest of us. You are basing your proof on your own perception.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by MamaJ

 

While MartyMcFly's at it; maybe he should tell him there's a bunch of starving african children that want a word.

edit on 31/8/2011 by NeverForget because: (no reason given)

There are starving people in Africa because of man, not God. Apart from movement and thought, we do not produce this world in any way. We can only affect it. Our bodies are on autopilot for every function. We can only think and move, that's it. God produces the parts that are outside our thoughts and actions by giving us what we need to start. Our actions and thoughts affect others in positive ways or negative ways form the needs we meet or neglect. It is our responsibility as caretakers of this garden to feed the hungry, assist the poor, give drink to the thirsty and visit those in prison. God has done His part. We have expectations. These expectations start with our own families and extend to the far reaches of the earth. Blaming God is irrelevant. He does His part. We are the ones who walked away from His shepherding.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by MamaJ

 

If WE ALL helped our neighbor and or treated them as we wanted to be treated the world would be a better place.

Of course, I'm all with you on that goal; an ultimately altruistic civilisation. But man can't be blamed for life on a climatic knife-edge (where life dies due to heat or cold) man can't be blamed for disasters like Haiti, or disease. Certainly, in some instances, we can try to prevent it.....

We actively go AGAINST God's "design" to combat natural diseases such as polio, or leprosy.

Again, this is off-topic, I would urge Christians to be more Christ-like if I agreed with Christ's preaching as a whole. But I don't, and some of his preaching i find to be rather reprehensible, I feel martyrs that have come after Jesus (if he existed) have much improved on his "teachings".

You have a right to feel however you find yourself feeling. You are having your own experience and that is fine.

To say we cannot help the needy and feed the homeless and work toward a better humanity is not true when looking out of my eyes.

There are laws here and above.

You can choose to love Jesus or go against his teachings...your choice.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by bogomil

 

Well the question was simply a question Bogo and it was not for you nor for the others...I am still awaiting a reply from the one that I asked. I have no idea how God would feel about it...I am sure saddened...if you really wanna know .

Why on earth do you expect other people to relate to questions on imaginary situations, questions you can't or won't answer yourself.

reply to post by MartyMcFlyJr


Why would he have to be a Christian God....if he is another "God" then you would not want to ask him.

Ooooooooooook

Blame MAN!!!! Look around at what YOU are doing. I do. I care...so I help.

Are you a being with a cause to help?