A different perspective Light Vs Dark (Only for the open minded)

reply to post by RisenAngel77


Fascinating topic. The way I see it. My "perception" is that good and evil are the same thing. It is all how you "perceive" things. Everything is one. Example. Hot and Cold are the same thing. Two points in a temperature scale. Now for us 100 degrees is hot, but in the bottom of the ocean at the lava plumes this "lavaworm" creatures thrive at hundreds of degrees yet for them that is normal.

God and the Devil are one. The "devil" if there is such a thing, was created by the supreme creator so it is a part of it. You can not divide creation against itself. You can not have an entity within this creation that is not part of such creation and ultimately one with it.

Life and death are the same thing. It is just a state. A cycle. You are in the astral planes, when you incarnate in utero your life as an astral being is over "but not really". In utero, everything is warm, wet, dark and quiet. You dont breathe air or eat through your mouth, yet you live, through the connection to your mother. After that comes the birthing process, out of the sudden, it is loud, cold, dry and bright, so you can say you died "your life as a fetus is over" and now you are in a different state.

Great topic.

To make it somewhat more complex.

What about lightness in the dark and darkness in the light?
The good parts of evil and the evil parts of good.

It doesn't really matter, both try to keep you in the structure of them, calling it a balance.

reply to post by dn4cer2000


You pretty much got the gist of it. In the end both are one. The knowledge in the OP is just but one way to interpret it, it does go in far deeper you just gotta let your imagination take over. But as i said, its just two sides of the same coin.

Originally posted by Diyainoue
To make it somewhat more complex.

What about lightness in the dark and darkness in the light?
The good parts of evil and the evil parts of good.

It doesn't really matter, both try to keep you in the structure of them, calling it a balance.

I already addressed that part :p look again.

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

Originally posted by Diyainoue
To make it somewhat more complex.

What about lightness in the dark and darkness in the light?
The good parts of evil and the evil parts of good.

It doesn't really matter, both try to keep you in the structure of them, calling it a balance.

I already addressed that part :p look again.

Yeah you showed it a bit, but only as a core. The image you present tells us more, doesn't it? All the twirly aesthetics shows a greater correlation then the "Eye" meets :p

It doesn't explain anything about the total structure and what happens outside YingYang.

Light and Dark doesn't mean anything to a blind man, warm and cold does, but I think he prefers comfortable temperature.

Originally posted by Diyainoue

Originally posted by RisenAngel77

Originally posted by Diyainoue
To make it somewhat more complex.

What about lightness in the dark and darkness in the light?
The good parts of evil and the evil parts of good.

It doesn't really matter, both try to keep you in the structure of them, calling it a balance.

I already addressed that part :p look again.

Yeah you showed it a bit, but only as a core. The image you present tells us more, doesn't it? All the twirly aesthetics shows a greater correlation then the "Eye" meets :p

It doesn't explain anything about the total structure and what happens outside YingYang.

Light and Dark doesn't mean anything to a blind man, warm and cold does, but I think he prefers comfortable temperature.

The core is everything, because its Intent that matters. From my perspective though, light and dark are merely labels placed to differentiate between them when in fact they are simply one and the same. That's the point I wanted to get across.

However, the Yin yang has other levels in itself, there is also the yun which represents trinity. The gray part or you can also call it balance is created when the two unite.


of course light and dark wont mean anything to a blind man but that doesn't mean he can't understand it emotionwise by simply listening or meditation.

To give you a brief example, lets take a person who is Gothic, she dresses in dark clothing's, she is depressed almost all the time, she has had a hard time in life. She writes poetry or forms of art expressing how she sees the world, and what she would like it to be. An example of a dark being with the heart of light, just like I mentioned with professor snape.

Thats just one example.

Now if you are referring to "Good" and "Evil". There is really no such thing, the only thing there is are choices. The bottom line is noone is born with the motivation to commit crimes, it all depends on the environment they were raised into and their mental programing/stress levels.

A person that commits "crimes" is a victim his or herself.

Both sides can be as ruthless as the other in their separate forms, just like both sides are more than capable of expressing Love.

This is very interesting and I like it, but I think that everything is light and dark is just a pretend concept.


For me, Light is the guidance guiding through love and joy and dark is more like a warning so that you won't go to where you don't want to.

reply to post by RisenAngel77


Ok we can throw examples at each other to explain the situation, but for me, I have this 3 year old that is claiming my attention like he should. So I will be brief.

You see the eye as the core because of its intend. (briefly)
I see the dualism between the 2 parts as the core, within that you have different levels, we can assume as cores. (briefly, explore the part of fractality of life). But what is more important to me is that the core we are talking about, probably is in dualism (or more) with something else. As we are now caught in this system we are not able to perceive it yet.)

Btw I did not want to mention trinity and beyond because I focused on your example as image. Not many times when discussing Y-Y will someone put Yun in the discussion.

For your example of Art that has formed from being dark, interpret as light.
I was a believer of that, until I began to question if aesthetics are light, I haven't established any truth in my exploration, besides the fact they are not. They are egocentric. Egocentric for us as species. Hard to explain in the middle of exploring, aesthetics have no "reason" besides us.
Besides this, if she doesn't share her light, it is no use. If she does share it and will get the "applause" she deserves, she will receive light and that will change her darkness which prevents her establishing light.

Good and evil are just interpretations of course, just as crimes or good deeds.

Originally posted by ELahrairah
When you turn on a light darkness disappears.

In other words light abolishes darkness.

Shadows are not real they are only the absence of light.

are you sure of that?

without darkness, there would only be light, but you would not realize it because there is nothing else to be aware of.
without light, there would only be darkness, but you would not realize it because there is nothing else to be aware of

it's duality at it's best and one gives birth to the awarenes of the presence of the other. One is not weaker or stronger as the other, they are both equal.
In fact, it's the co-existing of both that gives birth to the shadows.
Dark and Light can not blend and become Grey, instead they be in balance and exist as One.

reply to post by RisenAngel77


Out of darkness came light.....

People fear darkness, blackness. Its always portray as evil, or sinister. But with out it, there would be nothing.






Reminds me of that Eddie Murphy movie, Vampire in Brooklyn... "Evil is Good,.. Get you good peice of evil a$$...whoo"

Originally posted by GypsK

are you sure of that?

without darkness, there would only be light, but you would not realize it because there is nothing else to be aware of.
without light, there would only be darkness, but you would not realize it because there is nothing else to be aware of

it's duality at it's best and one gives birth to the awarenes of the presence of the other. One is not weaker or stronger as the other, they are both equal.
In fact, it's the co-existing of both that gives birth to the shadows.
Dark and Light can not blend and become Grey, instead they be in balance and exist as One.

I'm sure of nothing


I was just using a literal example humans like to draw all types of dulistic notions from every thing
it's been going on since the dawn of human history.

Satan vs God
Set vs Horus
Tiamat vs Marduk
us vs them
pirate vs Ninja

and on and on as long as the human mind is enganged in duelistic thinking.

I have been studying non dualism which isn't easy.

Originally posted by ELahrairah


I'm sure of nothing

I was just using a literal example humans like to draw all types of dulistic notions from every thing
it's been going on since the dawn of human history.

Satan vs God
Set vs Horus
Tiamat vs Marduk
us vs them
pirate vs Ninja

and on and on as long as the human mind is enganged in duelistic thinking.

I have been studying non dualism which isn't easy.

hehe, I'm sure of nothing aswell

the concept of dualism vs non-dualism is one that always pops up again. Sometimes years go by and I think 'I got it now'... and there it is again, lol

Maybe that is the whole purpose of this existence, I don't know

It's nice to see someone who likes to use lots of visuals in a post!

Your conclusions will carry you far. Perhaps not all the way, but perhaps far enough.

I learned an independently-derived version of the story of our development before I studied teachings based on traditional earth sources. I only trust this version more because a technology for spiritual development is based on it that seems to be very workable.

For better or worse, this newer teaching does not respect all of the older teachings about balance. As has been mentioned, you can only create darkness by creating a barrier (which we could call "ignorance") through which the light could not shine. If there were no such barriers, the light would appear as a continuous gradient from bright to dim, with no sharp border between the bright and dark. I believe this is the more natural condition.

The teachings about balance are good for understanding physical systems. A parallel concept in physics and mechanics is equilibrium. Physics has demonstrated that only "dynamic" equilibrium is possible. If you try to stop all motion (near absolute zero), matter tends to homogenize, then disappear. Thus, in a state where motion is not relevant, balance would not be relevant either.

I know "love" as cause. It is a less emotional concept, and I feel that it is correct. The level of total cause would be above the level of emotion. Emotion is relevant, again, in the physical world. In the physical world you solve problems by being love. In the higher spiritual world, you solve problems by being cause.

These are some of the basic concepts that I have been taught.

Yes, OP nailed it. Embrace theWay of the Twilight
.

I wrote this in another thread. Its seems more relevant here.


You cant just obviate the need for order, or pretend that order doesnt also derive its existence from God.

To me, law is the most basic idea when it comes to a man(or womans) - created beings, with a finite mind - and their relationship with God. This is the main reason i reject perenially philosophy found in gnosticism, buddhism, hinduism, etc, in which one defines ones own law, based on his own "knowledge" of self.

This to me is arrogant and presumptuous. Fortunately, God did make a separation on earth; between the Hebrews and everyone else. Some consider this to be inane! What God would love one people more then another!? Thats no true God! Well, that is just one pespective.

From another perspective, Gods making a "differentiation", could be apart of the whole essence and purpose in creation; for man (all men, Jew or gentuile, being completely equal. His selection of the "Jew" is merely to make a philosophical point, that differentiation is apart of the fabric of this worlds existence, and therefore of the greatest importance for this world. We just cant forget WHY this world exists, and for Whom it exists, hence the philosophical importance the Bible puts on MEMORY -ie; the generations. The entire Torah is a recounting of the PAST. Some think the present is the only thing of importance. The bible on the other hand emphasizes memory of the past, which symbolicaly understood, means remembering from whence we came, and thus understanding WHY WE ARE IN THIS WORLD) an emanation of His own ineffable "self", to differentiate one thing from another, and therefore imitate, or incarnate, Gods own action of creation, which requires a contraction of his infinite being into creating a limited reality. He chose just one form of expression, albeit, in an infinite number of ways.

In this sense, Man is always far from God, so if God IS TRULY God, God could logically do either or; he could abstain from mankind, and so accord with the assumption of pagan theology: that he doesnt "care" or interfere with this world, or God could be actively involved in his creation ie; Hebraic Judeo-Christian theology, a God actively involved within his creation, in the mystery of Time, Space and Order.

See?? Everyone has a decision to make. We have Free Will. We can choose whatever path we want. We can become antinomian, and believe as some people do, and believe all concept of law is irrelevant. Existence is ultimately impersonal, and so no God relates with his creation. Rather, it is us coming to know ourselves, and in doing so, come to a complete awareness of God.

I think its a combination of both. I think God contacts us, and we contact God; a mutual relationship between creator and created.

reply to post by dn4cer2000


Why do you relativize the two??

Are we creatures who live at the bottom of the sea? No, we arent. Its a completely inapposite analogy.

If you get two humans, and put one hand in a 15 degree celcius water, and another persons hand at 100 degrees. For the latter, and any other human being, it would be incredibly painful. It would be HELL for one, and heaven for another. Why is that? Because there is a value distinction between one and the other. The latter being objectively bad for all humans; the only creatures with reason and able to discern value.

Heres another perspective from my own personal Journey. Ive come to the complete opposite conclusion.

I wrote this a Rabbi, and friend of mine:


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As you know, i take an interest, and am naturally curious, about world philosophy and religion. I want to know what others think and believe, although i know before hand i wont actually become interested in adopting any antinomian philosophy.

Anyways. Lately ive been studying Gnosticism. I read Hans Jonas' "the gnostic religion", and i got a few books by Elaine Pagels - the Gnostic Religion, and the Gnostic Paul. Right now im reading a book by Jay G Williams called "Yeshua Buddah". Just by the name you can tell that it has something to do with Gnosticism, and how the essence of Christian philosophy overlaps with that of Buddhism, but also Zoroastrianism, Hinduism and Far Eastern thought.

So, im reading this book. The author intends to explain a "new Christian theology" revised, for the modern Christian. As he goes through passages within the new testament, he comes by John the Baptists verse in Luke where he calls the Pharisees a "brood of vipers", and goes on to explain WHY they are a brood of vipers. Im always amused by the anti-Judaism and anti-God of the Torah rhetoric, that these gnostics (the true meaning of Christianity, and the inner secret of Roman Catholicism, despite its 'outer' garb ie; it is inherently dualistic) express in their writings. He continues: The Jew symbolizes the Ego, and the 'idealism' of the Ego. Any care for the world he explains is INHERENTLY egotistical, and so a symptom of delusion. The Jew, because of his limited scope, fails to percieve the god above the G-d they worship (i lowercased their god, because they devalue G-D, and assume that he doesnt care about this world), and so this is why John calls them a brood of vipers.

The essential message of the book was essentially the same idea one can derive from Buddhism; there is no law, but ones own self.

Now, the above idea is reasonable. It makes sense..... IF YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JUDAISM THAT IS!

What really sparked by imagination was the incredible oneness, and totality of Jewish thought. Unlike in every other religion, Judaism logically involves every aspect of creation within Gods being, and explains not only mans purpose in this world, but also brings purpose and reality to this world ITSELF!

The kabbalah, from what i have studied, spends alot of time emphasizing the phenomena of Tziztzum - contraction. And i think i can see why this is, philosophically speaking.

Gentile philosophy focuses on the abstract - on the beyond - the world beyond the immediate senses, the ego, the personality, the family life, his conduct in this world. Although of course it advises rational behavior, ie; show love, kindness, do not harm others, they are inherently based on a transcendant philosophy, and so their ethics is based on neccesity, and not anything deeper.

Judaism conversely puts an unusual degree of stress on the finite; on things one could imagine to be "egotistical" (ie; things which involve the "ego"), as gnostics do.

But i see something so much deeper. I see reality being UNIFIED. The infinite - something these gnostics never want to emphasize when they talk about Jewish thought; as if Judaism were focused only on Ego, and not the world of spirit - the abstract, transcendant realm at the highest levels of perception - UNITED WITH the finite realm of space, time, and ego (that is, self consciousness).

Something you said that really struck me "wow, that is such an incredibly beuatiful and deep idea" was when you explained the concept of the "length of days". One is not simply living longer, but one is almost living in an infinite PRESENT - where the day becomes "lengthened"....

Anyways. I thankyou for these very beuatiful lectures and i thank you for your support and the guidance you have given me. It is very appreciated, both intellectually, and personally.

Judaism has always struck me unique. This bible, which says that this people alone is different from the rest of mankind. Not inherently different, but theyve been invested with something remarkable. A power, which no other people possesses. This book, the Torah, written in a language too mysterious to fully comprehend.

And it ends up, G-d leads me towards Judaism, and Torah. I end up studying so much Torah, from so many different views points. Ramchal, Chabad Chassiduth, the Rebbe, Rebbe Nachman, Rabbi Kahane, Reb Bachya - duties of the heart, Rabbi Dessler, Adin Steinsaltz, and these are just the ones who come to mind, and i come to see an incredibly deeeeep religion. Rabbi Areyh Kaplans Sefer Yetzirah, gave me such a deep respect for the metaphysics of the Kabbalistic tradition. This religion isnt only incredibly deep and spiritual, but their metaphysics is absurdly scientific

Anyways, i think man in his very nature needs to understand the tremendous importance and value in respecting and honoring certain moral codes, not simply because it is important, but because G-d SAYS SO.

G-d saying so implies something about human beings; gnosis is not enough. We also need to realize our DEPENDANCE on not merely something other; but something deeper then we can EVER UNDERSTAND. That is humility, and true ego nullification.

I will always choose the light. Though, its harder to live in the light than the dark, I still choose it.

reply to post by l_e_cox


You pretty much nailed about how I feel, thanks for this post.



reply to post by dontreally


The reason I believe what i believe is based on experiences I've witnessed which I once thought was impossible. I drew my conclusion based on that. I will ignore any religion posts because I have already moved past religious views. To be one with oneself you do not need a religion.

Each person draws their own conclusion based on experiences they have gained. You have your opinions as I have mine, however I find it annoying that religious folks try to shove down other peoples throats their beliefs instead of respecting them, and yet they feel appalled when we question theirs. We are in the metaphysical forums, where those who are open minded reside. Why feel the need to prove your religious point of view when the majority of us have already moved passed it?