DOJ Raids Gibson Guitars Looking for Illegal Wood

I only have a few words for this madness. Too many people working for the government trying to justify their worthless positions.

reply to post by Realtruth


Keep talking like that and I'll have the unfinished fingerboard Nazi's on your ass in no time.

You don't want to mess with the DOJ's unfinished fingerboard division.

Originally posted by RainDog
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

Yup. It's for real. What's next? Are they gonna raid every music shop in the U.S. that sells Gibson guitars?

Howabout criminal charges against everyone that owns one! I think this is a clear example of the government being out of control. Some laws are just useless.

This is part of a much larger problem.

I just wish the heck people would wake up and see the trend!

If you are not a part of the International Corporate Cartels aka Bildeberg You are open game for the government who is looking for lots of dollars. Now NO ONE is save from the money hungry gestapo and with so many regulations and laws on the books, they can dig up some regulation and accuse you of violating it!

from
$100000 fine for your yard sale

to

A Lemonade Stand With No Permit = a $500 Fine

to

Family Facing $4 Million in Fines for Selling Bunnies

Not even "American Apple Pie" is safe!!!!
State Cracks Down on Baked Goods: Inspector Nabs Homemade Desserts At St. Cecilia Church's Lenten Fish Fry


But the BIG multinational Corporations sure are!

Make sure you are not eating when you read the report....

SHIELDING THE GIANT: USDA’s “Don’t Look, Don’t Know” Policy
This investigative report, as part of an ongoing series on corporate and government accountability, was
researched and written by GAP Legal Director, Tom Devine.

...USDA aggressively enforced a “do not look, do not tell” noninterference policy with the giant firm.

This allowed the agency to remain officially ignorant of facts that could create a conflict with ConAgra, or expose the government’s own Seal of Approval as wholesome on tainted ConAgra beef. But it meant the government was sealing a cover up. It left the public ignorant of and vulnerable to ongoing shipments of government-approved, tainted meat. This occurred while USDA was using HACCP to place Montana Quality Foods [WHISTLEBLOWER] under tighter surveillance than any other plant in the beef industry.

GAP's investigation to date has reviewed thousands of pages of documentary evidence, and produced affidavits and interviews with whistleblowers from industry, and throughout USDA's organizational chain of command from the front lines to agency management...

The composite lesson learned is fundamental: Secrecy enforced by repression is a food safety hazard. In the absence of safe reliable channels for full disclosure, Americans will have to live with deadly food poisoning threats.... Four children died and 500 consumers were hospitalized in the outbreak, from eating hamburgers made from ground beef approved as wholesome by USDA...

Originally posted by Shamatt
I expect this has less to do with the wood, and more to do with something or someone at Gibson. It stinks of politics. I wonder what has been going on behind the scenes? Does Gibson support the "wrong" political party? Did Fender tip off the DOJ?

Exactly. I think it's time to do a little research on what someone at Gibson did, said, or suggested. Or somebody one of their competitors know.

Here's alittle something something to read as well.


Employee concerns In 2008, the company was the 5th worst company to work for by employee reviews, with a score of 2.1/5, according to glassdoor.com.[15]

In 2009, glassdoor.com used employee reviews in order to label the company as the number one "worst to work for".[2]

The Nashville-based guitar manufacturer has been investigated for violating the Lacey Act. The Lacey act was amended in 2009 to include wood products. On November 17, 2009 federal authorities seized six guitars and several pallets of alleged endangered and illegal, rare ebony wood purchased by Gibson which was stored at the company's factory.[16][17] Until the investigation has been concluded, Henry E. Juszkiewicz, CEO and Chairman of Gibson Guitar Corporation, has taken a leave of absence as a board member of the Rainforest Alliance.[18] In June 2011, the United States Department of Justice filed a civil case against Gibson, stating: "Gibson sourced its unfinished ebony wood in the form of blanks (for use in the manufacture of fingerboards for Gibson guitars) from Nagel (in Germany), which obtained it exclusively from Roger Thunam (a supplier in Madagascar). Madagascar prohibits the harvest of ebony wood as well as the exportation of unfinished ebony wood." The filing also made mention of internal emails from 2008 and 2009 that discussed ebony species from Madagascar and plans to harvest it.[19][20] The case against Gibson Guitar was the first under the amended Lacey Act, which requires importing companies to purchase legally harvested wood and follow the environmental laws of the producing countries regardless of corruption or lack of enforcement.[20]

Gibson Guitar's offices and factories in Nashville and Memphis were raided again by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife on August 25, 2011, although no details were released about the nature of the raid or what was found due to the ongoing legal proceedings.[16] However, according to a statement issued by Gibson Guitar the following day, these raids focused on rare wood imported from India.[21]

The charges against the company constitute a felony, and if proven, the company could face large fines and the executives involved could face jail terms.[22] Prior to the initial raid, Gibson Guitar was considered a progressive company for its promotion of sustainability and forest certification.[22] Although the Rainforest Alliance certified the wood used by Gibson Guitar,[20] its FSC certificates only applied to specific product lines. In the case of the wood from Madagascar, the wood could not have been used in products labeled or sold as FSC-certified.[22]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by chasingbrahman

As much as I hate to use wikipedia as a source for anything reliable, it seems Gibson has had quite a bit of notoriety as of late.
directly from wikipedia-
Recent criticism and controversy

Gibson has been ranked as a "worst workplace in America" and has come under investigation for rare wood purchases.
[edit]Employee concerns
In 2008, the company was the 5th worst company to work for by employee reviews, with a score of 2.1/5, according to glassdoor.com.[15]
In 2009, glassdoor.com used employee reviews in order to label the company as the number one "worst to work for".[2]
[edit]U.S. Fish and Wildlife Raid
See also: Illegal logging in Madagascar
The Nashville-based guitar manufacturer has been investigated for violating the Lacey Act. The Lacey act was amended in 2009 to include wood products. On November 17, 2009 federal authorities seized six guitars and several pallets of alleged endangered and illegal, rare ebony wood purchased by Gibson which was stored at the company's factory.[16][17] Until the investigation has been concluded, Henry E. Juszkiewicz, CEO and Chairman of Gibson Guitar Corporation, has taken a leave of absence as a board member of the Rainforest Alliance.[18] In June 2011, the United States Department of Justice filed a civil case against Gibson, stating: "Gibson sourced its unfinished ebony wood in the form of blanks (for use in the manufacture of fingerboards for Gibson guitars) from Nagel (in Germany), which obtained it exclusively from Roger Thunam (a supplier in Madagascar). Madagascar prohibits the harvest of ebony wood as well as the exportation of unfinished ebony wood." The filing also made mention of internal emails from 2008 and 2009 that discussed ebony species from Madagascar and plans to harvest it.[19][20] The case against Gibson Guitar was the first under the amended Lacey Act, which requires importing companies to purchase legally harvested wood and follow the environmental laws of the producing countries regardless of corruption or lack of enforcement.[20]
Gibson Guitar's offices and factories in Nashville and Memphis were raided again by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife on August 25, 2011, although no details were released about the nature of the raid or what was found due to the ongoing legal proceedings.[16] However, according to a statement issued by Gibson Guitar the following day, these raids focused on rare wood imported from India.[21]
The charges against the company constitute a felony, and if proven, the company could face large fines and the executives involved could face jail terms.[22] Prior to the initial raid, Gibson Guitar was considered a progressive company for its promotion of sustainability and forest certification.[22] Although the Rainforest Alliance certified the wood used by Gibson Guitar,[20] its FSC certificates only applied to specific product lines. In the case of the wood from Madagascar, the wood could not have been used in products labeled or sold as FSC-certified.[22]

So of course there is much more to this than the DOJ becoming wood-nazis. Methinks there are some political undertones going on. Why single out Gibson? There are plenty of guitar manufacturers that use Indian Rosewood and Ebony as well, and Gibson appeared to have all their documents in order.
Well- to anyone who owns a Gibby- definitely hold on to them as they do retain their value (unlike the cheap made in China knockoffs) and they may just keep going UP due to this.
Cheers...

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Ahhhh dang you beat me to it.
Thanks for the input!!!

I was very into guitar playing, early 90,s as a mid to late teen. wnated to get my own metal band together. persoanlly i have 1984 gibson v, an 85 sunburst explorer, a few jacksons. in 1999? what turned me off so much about gibson...was they sued the maker ESP guitars. ESSP also made a typical explorer body..gibosn said ESP was using their copyrighted stuff, which it wasnt..and won in court. ESP cannot make explorer shaped guitars, thanks to gibson.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


---

Dunno, but seems to me --grow your own wood. And yes Gibson's are great spec'ed guitars.
Decoy

reply to post by RainDog


"I woke up with wood...." the Fed hears in his mind as he hunts down the terrible guitar maker who violated a nebulous law only intended to protect foreign workers..... not the supposedly endangered tree of which palette loads were already harvested..... coming from a supplier in Germany.....

Meanwhile the other Fed(s) hear(s) "I woke up with wood...." while he (they) knowingly allowed 2000++ (that we know of) illegally purchased weapons to flow across the Mexican border to wind up in God knows who's hands to come back and kill some of our own border patrol and other agents... and probably many others... maybe some US citizens as well.....

Meanwhile another Fed hears "I woke up with wood...." while he relentlessly pursues a couple of 7 year olds selling lemonade without a license, keeping Amurika safe....

ZZ top song credited "I woke up with wood".

Illegal wood, I'm glad their cracking down on this it's about time. Those dam splinters need to be locked up for good, always poking people.

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings

Ha Ha Ha! That was brilliant! I have to post this now I haven't heard this song in years.Thanks for reminding me.

At least its only the wood for the neck and not the mahogany.I luckly bought an A spec Les Paul in 2006, so im good..

I understand completely why some wood is illegal. Brazilian rosewood for instance is illegal to harvest but it still is legal to trade in it as long it is its from the pool of pre existing stock. The Gibson thing is probably over the Indian variety of rosewood.

If wood becomes illegal it is probably for the same reasons as any other illegal trade. People commit crime to harvest to the point of wiping out all the existing stands of that specie, or people are exploited or hurt over it somehow. Thugs rule all the harvesting. Supply and demand. Its difficult to monitor and regulate unfinished wood. If its all finished in India then its kept under control.

What kind of unfair economy is this?

Indians can't outsource their wood finishing these days?

Why the hell not? We outsource everything we do to them.

Imbalanced system is not sustainable.

I was somewhat dismayed when I saw that the DOJ was involved with raiding a US corporation because of some obscure foreign law regarding illegal export of Ebony wood from India. However, once the OP indicated that there was perhaps more to this than meets the eye, I checked the wikipedia links and found some interesting information:

As has already been mentioned, Gibson was ranked as the worst company to work for in 2009.

employees describe the corporate culture of Gibson as "The Worst Ever," and complain about the company's turnover rate. A specific vitriol is reserved for senior management and Gibson CEO Henry E. Juszkiewicz in particular

and

other big companies like Yamaha and Roland only have one or two user-submitted reviews. Gibson enjoys twenty-seven reviews, and they each seem to touch on the same negative aspects of the company–namely, "HJ."

Link

It's likely that Gibson knew exactly what they were doing. A Federal Prosecutor's summary of an internal e-mail states:

"On February 25, 2009, in a reference to the potential long term solution, [he] wrote…that the company Maderas Barber 'has been in the business a long time and may be able to help begin some legitimate harvests. Mr. [Roger] Thunam on the other hand should now be able to supply Nagel with all the rosewood and ebony for the grey market,'"

Link

In 2009, The Rainforest Alliance released a press release that concluded with:

Until the investigation has been concluded, Henry E. Juszkiewicz, CEO and Chairman of Gibson Guitar Corporation, has taken a leave of absence as a board member of the Rainforest Alliance.

Link

The FSC certification that underlies Gibson's "proof" that the wood was properly obtained was issued by the Rainforest Alliance, a non-governmental organization on whose board Henry E. Juszkiewicz served.

I think that the actual target of this action is actually Henry E. Juszkiewicz. Given his alleged narcissistic nature, and apparent conflict of interest political positions, I suspect that he may be involved with considerably more than just importing "blood" wood, so to speak.

Just sayin'...
Dex

reply to post by RainDog

A possible violation of "The lacy act":

It was the first federal law protecting wildlife, although today it is primarily used to prevent the importation or spread of potentially dangerous non-native species.

The Lacey Act also makes it unlawful to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce any plant in violation of the laws of the United States, a State, an Indian tribe, or any foreign law that protects plants.[3]

In violation of laws of the u.s./states /indian tribes or Any foreign law.
people have been arrested for posessing a fish which was illegal under "Honduran law"!

This is part1 of two parts of a very watchable/very valuable video.

. Please ffwd to 5:18 to hear Dr James on the innumerable federal statutes( i.e: everybody is"guilty" where they stand of something).bad Legislation like the "lacey act" makes sure by encompassing administrative regulations of even foreign countries. Govt run Amok"

reply to post by DexterRiley


Interesting, so this actually could be about fraud and illegal trafficking. Even though it doesn't admit that up front, I suppose due to the investigation going on etc.

You have done a good initial investigation there, I like what you are up to.

I also find it amazing that the suspect was a board member of the RA and also CEO of the company receiving certificates from the RA. Conflict of interest is so common these days.

It appears he knew he had contraband on his hands and was looking for a way to get "legit" in the near future?

reply to post by 46ACE


Looks to me like the Lacey Act is entirely unconstitutional and a slap in the face of liberty and common sense.

It essentially criminalizes large sections of the population who otherwise would not be considered criminals in any way at all.

Very broad and all encompassing legislation like this is extremely tyrannical.

It needs to be repealed.

When was the last time a politician answered questions until there were no more questions to be asked. That guy could have kept going but the press ran out of things to ask him. That guy is genuine.

Gibson are also known for dressing up cheap capacitors as vintage stock and charging a premium.

This news doesn't surprise me