Some Christians need to change the way they communicate

reply to post by petrus4


My guess is that you communicate with far more Christians than you know on this site and in the real world. We all do; and also gays, conservatives, muslims, liberals, and every other group out there.

Most of the time we don't notice, because in general we're pretty normal people with the same concerns and fears as our neighbors.

Only a few fanatics, which exist in any religion, ism, or ideology, are the ones you notice. Ironically, those are the ones most worthy of being ignored.

Originally posted by GmoS719

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
RELIGION IS A FORM OF SELF GOVERNING

Religion is the opposite of self-governing. It's being governed by an outside source(the Bible, the Qur'an, God). It literally is being governed by something else.

ATHEISM IS A FORM OF SELF GOVERNING

Atheism is a form of immaturity.
You need to grow up.
Look around you.
How could this earth, no not earth, This UNIVERSE.
How could the universe even exist with out God?
Impossible.

Regardless of whether or not that's true completely ignores my point which is religion is the opposite of self-governing, while atheism is self governing.

But I'll bite, how is atheism a form of immaturity, how is it impossible that 'this earth, this universe' could not exist without God. Also, why should one prescribe to Christianity if that were true anyways.

reply to post by Josonic

The bible does say that if you believe in him you will go to heaven,
But if you believe in "Him" then you will live by his word.
You can't just take one sentence out of the bible and say,
OK, this is all I have to do.
If that were the case, it would have been a poster, not a book.

reply to post by petrus4


I think it is very easy to confuse the object with the subject. You are rightfully noticing that the subject of promoting virtue is a subject that has the potential to seem judgmental. Keep in mind that the object delivering the subject is not the link to the emotions that are revealed by the mirror of truth. I don't want to suggest that all subjects delivered by a Christian are accurate, but this will hold true for anyone you talk to. We are human and we all have a differing level of subjective reality familiar to our own versions of human existence.

The main point is this: The subject of virtue is the same as looking at a mirror. Most information that a person presents in any form can be reflected by the receiver of the information. We tend to take things personally, not because of the subject delivered, but because of the reflection it causes. Mirrors do not reflect themselves. Mirrors only reflect the direction they are aimed. When you look into a mirror, you see your own reflection. When you hear a subject spoken in regard to virtue, you see your own reflection in the same way.

This becomes the problem with a person delivering a subject of virtue. Others look at the subject delivered and see their own reflection. This has nothing to do with the object delivering the message. We are all capable of judging the message as true or false. The problem arises when the person looking on the reflection recognizes truth, but also realizes the cognitive dissonance the subject causes in their mind against the reflection of their own character. Dissonance arises when there is a lack of harmony between the subject and the object. Fear, resentment and anger are typical reactions to seeing ourselves in a clean mirror. We see just how ugly we can be as humans. Bias will cause an adverse reaction in this situation. Depending on how true the subject is, the object will always be repelled if the two do not match.

The problem for the Christian is the same. We are looking at the mirror of truth and adjusting our image to comply with the image truth presents. There is nothing easy about living by virtue and it is even harder trying to find the essence of truth and virtue. We see the benefit and we try as hard as possible to keep our own image clean. Try as we might, we are all sinners. We are all fallen beings, incapable of perfection. The intent of a Christian is not to judge another person by presenting the subject of virtue and wisdom. The intent is always to help make the world better. The evidence is for virtue and against sin no matter which side of the aisle you are on. The ultimate question is this: Who actually holds truth? We must all decide this for ourselves.

Since all humans are different when it comes to character and overall nature, the subject delivered has a tendency to make the object delivering the message appear as hypocritical. Some deliver their message in a loving manner and some deliver wearing their own bias on their sleeve. This doesn't make the Christian wrong as much as it makes them as human as anyone else. Christian or not, we are all pretty much the same when it comes to wearing our bias against others.

In truth, the object is not the subject judging. The subject judges as a reflection in a mirror. We all see our own reflections against the impression our character draws from the image.

For me, the subject of truth that is most needed in this world is love. 1 Corinthians 13 is the best source to narrow truth to its essence. If we are all compassionate to others when speaking and listening, truth would be much easier to rightly divide from the counterfeit versions. Atheist or Christian, regarding others as equally in need should be central to our communication. Bias only builds ground for the other person to stand against. One of the best books ever written on this subject is Verbal Judo by George Thompson.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
RELIGION IS A FORM OF SELF GOVERNING

Originally posted by Josonic
ATHEISM IS A FORM OF SELF GOVERNING

Both are illusive schemes as humans are not capable of perceiving such truths.

Everybody has/knows its place, some take place in one form of structure, some in another, some will seize to exist others will thrive in a new creation.

reply to post by Josonic

I never said one should be a christian, I'm speaking from my point of view.
If you don't want to be a christian, than fine.
I only replied because I disagreed with you.
You made a bold statement about the bible, which was completely untrue.
If you are going to slander the good book, i'm not going to sit back and have people
believing in such a childish remark.

Originally posted by Jo Sonic

Originally posted by petrus 4

My main point, though, is that I can honestly hardly remember the last communication that I've had with a Christian, that didn't consist almost entirely of appeals to guilt and fear

Understand this; if you claim to represent Yahweh, or His son, then He will judge you for how many of you, in my lifetime, have treated me

Ironic much, you claim that when talking to Christians all they do is use guilt and fear to get their points across yet that is exactly what you do.

Of course, I think it's completely reasonable to for Christians to do that cause that's what the Bible teaches. It's all 'Obey me or be tortured for eternity'. The Bible is all about fear.

1 John 4:18
King James Version (KJV)


18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
while i'm not interested in doctrine and dogma, i do find wisdom in the teaching of the ancients.

while teaching sports to young children, i would always remember john 4-18 when a negative emotion was concerned.

fear of heights, size of mountain, water, etc. with play the little kids had a smile from ear to ear by the end of the day.

while learning a sport, their emotional burden was lightened.

if Cristian teachings were applied to day to day life instead of arguing about things humans cannot understand, it has good content.

it up to the individual.

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by Josonic

 

The bible does say that if you believe in him you will go to heaven,
But if you believe in "Him" then you will live by his word.
You can't just take one sentence out of the bible and say,
OK, this is all I have to do.
If that were the case, it would have been a poster, not a book.

You are right, the Bible says you have to believe in Jesus and ask him into your heart and you will go to heaven. THAT'S IT.

It doesn't say that if you believe him you will live by his word, in fact it says EVERYONE (including Christians) sins, repeatedly, before and after they become 'born again'. Which means nobody lives by his word.

Originally posted by Threegirls
Also whenever you say something about Jesus or the bible that a christian doesn't like, 'you don't understand the teachings properly and cannot without faith'.

It's absurd to assume that someone else does not understand simply because their view differs from yours, maybe someone else actually interprets and understands something differently, this is why there are so many branches of christianity.

Rather than asserting that that everyone else has it wrong, just admit you may not have all the answers but you believe xyz. It's as easy as that.

Very many people who hold different views of the bible had faith at some point, understood things similarly to them but something, some new piece of information changed their mind.

We do not all need converting to one idea of truth, its very often the tactics used by evangelicals that turn some away from christianity. If you want to help someone as a christian, be a friend, respectful and kind. Give a good example, wait to be asked about your faith. Too many christians behave as judges, we know what the bible says about most things we do wrong and do not need to be told what the bible says in that respect.

If you really want to help me, pray for my migraine to go away.

I'm going to do as you asked without any bombastic claims or promises. Just do what you have asked along with this suggestion.

Increase your water intake to as close to 13- 8 0z.glasses of water every day. No tap water. No sodas. This just came to me one day after years of suffering and doctors prescriptions. Water for good blood flow and a clean body.

Jasonic

Only Christ is perfect in my walk with Christ.

reply to post by Josonic

Christianity isn't about being exactly like Jesus.
It's striving to be as close as possible.
No one is perfect.

and in my opinion
Believing in Jesus, isn't just acknowledging that he is Christ.
Believing in Jesus is accepting all of his teachings.

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by GmoS719
reply to post by Josonic

 

The bible does say that if you believe in him you will go to heaven,
But if you believe in "Him" then you will live by his word.
You can't just take one sentence out of the bible and say,
OK, this is all I have to do.
If that were the case, it would have been a poster, not a book.

You are right, the Bible says you have to believe in Jesus and ask him into your heart and you will go to heaven. THAT'S IT.

It doesn't say that if you believe him you will live by his word, in fact it says EVERYONE (including Christians) sins, repeatedly, before and after they become 'born again'. Which means nobody lives by his word.

Well said. We are all condemned, no matter our level of virtue or wisdom. Jesus suffered every step for us by example. He is the only one righteous. By placing our image in His, we are transposed to this same righteousness. Nothing we can do will ever replace His work of fulfillment of the Word. He is the Living Word. Our only choice is to humble our soul and believe or pridefully walk away holding our own bias as supreme.

Ephesians 2:

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Josonic

 

Lord Enki and Lord Enlil are the 2 gods of which you speak who influenced this data. So research them BOTH and you may have a better understanding.

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Abraham was influenced by LORD ENLIL

edit on 8/25/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

Right On, Ophiuchus, that is my take also. Of course you know, this will fall of deaf ears by Christians, they will never research anything about their book, their religion, or their so called "God." I myself have attempted many time to educate them, but always get called names and "prayed for," and ridiculed for believing in "myths and fables." One day they will all learn the truth as you and I know it, but until then, they will be so brainwashed nothing will come between them and their "beliefs." You see, a "belief" is something basically set into stone, it can never ever be changed, no matter what, even if direct evidence to the contrary is presented, it is immediately labelled as "inspired by satan," their supreme enemy as I take it. I myself have Ideas instead. Ideas can be changed, and new ideas can be added to the old ones, and old one can be discarded in favor of a new idea.

reply to post by randyvs


Thankyou,

God bless you, I love you.

Agape

I think all Christians on this site should go over here to this website, and read with an open mind. There are man, many interesting links here, with a great deal of good information. Give it a try, and educate yourself.

They'll never change the way they communicate. YOU must alter to understand the message.

Originally posted by Josonic
ATHEISM IS A FORM OF SELF GOVERNING

I'll go one better, solipsism is a form of self governing. Who's to say there aren't atheists out there that don't conform to some other ideology?

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Josonic

 

Lord Enki and Lord Enlil are the 2 gods of which you speak who influenced this data. So research them BOTH and you may have a better understanding.

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Abraham was influenced by LORD ENLIL

edit on 8/25/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

Right On, Ophiuchus, that is my take also. Of course you know, this will fall of deaf ears by Christians, they will never research anything about their book, their religion, or their so called "God." I myself have attempted many time to educate them, but always get called names and "prayed for," and ridiculed for believing in "myths and fables." One day they will all learn the truth as you and I know it, but until then, they will be so brainwashed nothing will come between them and their "beliefs." You see, a "belief" is something basically set into stone, it can never ever be changed, no matter what, even if direct evidence to the contrary is presented, it is immediately labelled as "inspired by satan," their supreme enemy as I take it. I myself have Ideas instead. Ideas can be changed, and new ideas can be added to the old ones, and old one can be discarded in favor of a new idea.

I've read all the books you reference. I am surrounded by my library of works outside the Bible regarding all topics I can find. The Bible stands as sure as anything can. All the rest are counterfeit or true by the nature of the fruit they represent. It doesn't matter if it is the work of Sumerians or the work of Buddha, all books are material in nature. Even the Bible must be placed in this category, but far above the rest by complexity, imagery and truth.

The only complete and true Word is Jesus. He is the living Word. The rest, including the Bible, are material representations of the true Word of God. The root of this tree of knowledge is the Biblical thread that God leads through the wilderness of the rest. It is a material image inspired by the hidden hand of God. God and man are both in the image, as is true for all other material representations of God. God refuses to be represented by a material object other than Himself. Jesus was the image of the first born Son. This is as close as you can get to the true Word of God as reflected in material form. Infinity is big and impossible to conceive in the material and finite realm.

The evidence for Jesus is witnessed by the evidence of the fruit He bears. The Bible is the same. As humans, we are the same. We are all in the image of God and the image of God. Genesis 1:27 states it two ways. An image is not the real thing. All of us, including God in Word, are reflections of the true estate. The material world is not that estate. There is one name above all names.

The work of Zecharia Sitchin is interesting. However, in light of the fact that he is the sole interpreter of the Sumerian writings brings a great deal of argument against his image of the ancient cuneiform tablets. I have read his books, but the Bible cannot be argued apart from a bias against God. True spiritual understanding can only come from a platform of humility. When viewed from this platform, the Bible stands as honest and accurate to the evidence that can be verified by all areas of examination.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I've researched a little and that sounds about right Ophiuchus 13....BTW I'm Ophiuchus 14...born on the 14th.

Ya know, the only people that truly terrified me as a youngster, (other than the joker) were nuns and priests. They are some seriously scary individuals and I use the term individual extremely lightly here. I think organized religion is the biggest mistake mankind has ever made, and yes it was mankind's creation not god's. All religions were created by man and will eventually be destroyed by man. I am not a Satanist although I do find most of it's philosophies to be more relevent to mankind than any other seeing that we are all animals and if we weren't we would not likely be classified as such. Aliens as demons come on, grow up before your mind becomes unhinged.

Originally posted by autowrench
I think all Christians on this site should go over here to this website, and read with an open mind. There are man, many interesting links here, with a great deal of good information. Give it a try, and educate yourself.

Thanks but no thanks

See God has let me know that I only need THE WORD. No reason to waste time with false doctrine. Call it what you want, that's what it is.

THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD. (not zee or xee or W/E). You can have your truth.


Toxicblud

You know the animals, might have a lot to say about that if they could speak.

I imagine something that would begin like:

WT did you just say? Not up in here ! You peddle that garbage on the otherside of the tracks Pal.