Libya: SAS leads hunt for Gaddafi

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by EvanB

 

The SAS dont care about medals and recognition.

Yeah, your right, that's why there is thousands of SAS books out there written by them.

And movies.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by EvanB

 

The SAS dont care about medals and recognition.

The SAS still get medals from the Queen mate, it just does not get reported, and they do get recognition too.

But the guy mentioned was not SAS but a Gurkha infantryman, who do indeed get tea and medals with Lizzy when they do good.

However back on topic.

The SAS have come full circle with this operation. The regiment was born in the Libyan desert during WW2, so to them its coming home.

reply to post by EvanB

The SAS have come full circle with this operation. The regiment was born in the Libyan desert during WW2, so to them its coming home.

Thats why they are so perfectly suited for this kind of operation. Mr Grandfather was SAS in north africa

Once Gaddafi is killed or captured, What tyrant will replace him?

The SAS are awesome, They often train near my old home up the brecon beacons.
lotsa gurkhas there too, good people.

Originally posted by listerofsmeg
Once Gaddafi is killed or captured, What tyrant will replace him?

The SAS are awesome, They often train near my old home up the brecon beacons.
lotsa gurkas there too, good people.

Can you show me in the UN charter where it states the terms CAPTURE or ASSASINATE?

k thanks...


The SAS deserves NO honour as it cannot follow UN orders.


Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Demands the immediate establishment of a cease-fire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians;

2. Stresses the need to intensify efforts to find a solution to the crisis which responds to the legitimate demands of the Libyan people and notes the decisions of the Secretary-General to send his Special Envoy to Libya and of the Peace and Security Council of the African Union to send its ad hoc High Level Committee to Libya with the aim of facilitating dialogue to lead to the political reforms necessary to find a peaceful and sustainable solution;

3. Demands that the Libyan authorities comply with their obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law, human rights and refugee law and take all measures to protect civilians and meet their basic needs, and to ensure the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian assistance;

Protection of civilians

4. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the Secretary-General, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011), to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory, and requests the Member States concerned to inform the Secretary-General immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorization conferred by this paragraph which shall be immediately reported to the Security Council;

5. Recognizes the important role of the League of Arab States in matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security in the region, and bearing in mind Chapter VIII of the Charter of the United Nations, requests the Member States of the League of Arab States to cooperate with other Member States in the implementation of paragraph 4;

No fly zone

6. Decides to establish a ban on all flights in the airspace of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya in order to help protect civilians;

7. Decides further that the ban imposed by paragraph 6 shall not apply to flights whose sole purpose is humanitarian, such as delivering or facilitating the delivery of assistance, including medical supplies, food, humanitarian workers and related assistance, or evacuating foreign nationals from the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, nor shall it apply to flights authorised by paragraphs 4 or 8, nor other flights which are deemed necessary by States acting under the authorisation conferred in paragraph 8 to be for the benefit of the Libyan people, and that these flights shall be coordinated with any mechanism established under paragraph 8;

8. Authorizes Member States that have notified the Secretary-General and the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, to take all necessary measures to enforce compliance with the ban on flights imposed by paragraph 6 above, as necessary, and requests the States concerned in cooperation with the League of Arab States to coordinate closely with the Secretary General on the measures they are taking to implement this ban, including by establishing an appropriate mechanism for implementing the provisions of paragraphs 6 and 7 above,

9. Calls upon all Member States, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, to provide assistance, including any necessary over-flight approvals, for the purposes of implementing paragraphs 4, 6, 7 and 8 above;

10. Requests the Member States concerned to coordinate closely with each other and the Secretary-General on the measures they are taking to implement paragraphs 4, 6, 7 and 8 above, including practical measures for the monitoring and approval of authorised humanitarian or evacuation flights;

11. Decides that the Member States concerned shall inform the Secretary-General and the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States immediately of measures taken in exercise of the authority conferred by paragraph 8 above, including to supply a concept of operations;

12. Requests the Secretary-General to inform the Council immediately of any actions taken by the Member States concerned in exercise of the authority conferred by paragraph 8 above and to report to the Council within 7 days and every month thereafter on the implementation of this resolution, including information on any violations of the flight ban imposed by paragraph 6 above;

Enforcement of the arms embargo

13. Decides that paragraph 11 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall be replaced by the following paragraph : "Calls upon all Member States, in particular States of the region, acting nationally or through regional organisations or arrangements, in order to ensure strict implementation of the arms embargo established by paragraphs 9 and 10 of resolution 1970 (2011), to inspect in their territory, including seaports and airports, and on the high seas, vessels and aircraft bound to or from the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, if the State concerned has information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that the cargo contains items the supply, sale, transfer or export of which is prohibited by paragraphs 9 or 10 of resolution 1970 (2011) as modified by this resolution, including the provision of armed mercenary personnel, calls upon all flag States of such vessels and aircraft to cooperate with such inspections and authorises Member States to use all measures commensurate to the specific circumstances to carry out such inspections";

14. Requests Member States which are taking action under paragraph 13 above on the high seas to coordinate closely with each other and the Secretary-General and further requests the States concerned to inform the Secretary-General and the Committee established pursuant to paragraph 24 of resolution 1970 (2011) ("the Committee") immediately of measures taken in the exercise of the authority conferred by paragraph 13 above;

15. Requires any Member State whether acting nationally or through regional organisations or arrangements, when it undertakes an inspection pursuant to paragraph 13 above, to submit promptly an initial written report to the Committee containing, in particular, explanation of the grounds for the inspection, the results of such inspection, and whether or not cooperation was provided, and, if prohibited items for transfer are found, further requires such Member States to submit to the Committee, at a later stage, a subsequent written report containing relevant details on the inspection, seizure, and disposal, and relevant details of the transfer, including a description of the items, their origin and intended destination, if this information is not in the initial report;

16. Deplores the continuing flows of mercenaries into the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and calls upon all Member States to comply strictly with their obligations under paragraph 9 of resolution 1970 (2011) to prevent the provision of armed mercenary personnel to the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya;

Ban on flights

17. Decides that all States shall deny permission to any aircraft registered in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya or owned or operated by Libyan nationals or companies to take off from, land in or overfly their territory unless the particular flight has been approved in advance by the Committee, or in the case of an emergency landing;

18. Decides that all States shall deny permission to any aircraft to take off from, land in or overfly their territory, if they have information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that the aircraft contains items the supply, sale, transfer, or export of which is prohibited by paragraphs 9 and 10 of resolution 1970 (2011) as modified by this resolution, including the provision of armed mercenary personnel, except in the case of an emergency landing;

Asset freeze

19. Decides that the asset freeze imposed by paragraph 17, 19, 20 and 21 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall apply to all funds, other financial assets and economic resources which are on their territories, which are owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by the Libyan authorities, as designated by the Committee, or by individuals or entities acting on their behalf or at their direction, or by entities owned or controlled by them, as designated by the Committee, and decides further that all States shall ensure that any funds, financial assets or economic resources are prevented from being made available by their nationals or by any individuals or entities within their territories, to or for the benefit of the Libyan authorities, as designated by the Committee, or individuals or entities acting on their behalf or at their direction, or entities owned or controlled by them, as designated by the Committee, and directs the Committee to designate such Libyan authorities, individuals or entities within 30 days of the date of the adoption of this resolution and as appropriate thereafter;

20. Affirms its determination to ensure that assets frozen pursuant to paragraph 17 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall, at a later stage, as soon as possible be made available to and for the benefit of the people of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya;

21. Decides that all States shall require their nationals, persons subject to their jurisdiction and firms incorporated in their territory or subject to their jurisdiction to exercise vigilance when doing business with entities incorporated in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya or subject to its jurisdiction, and any individuals or entities acting on their behalf or at their direction, and entities owned or controlled by them, if the States have information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that such business could contribute to violence and use of force against civilians;

Designations

22. Decides that the individuals listed in Annex I shall be subject to the travel restrictions imposed in paragraphs 15 and 16 of resolution 1970 (2011), and decides further that the individuals and entities listed in Annex II shall be subject to the asset freeze imposed in paragraphs 17, 19, 20 and 21 of resolution 1970 (2011);

23. Decides that the measures specified in paragraphs 15, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall apply also to individuals and entities determined by the Council or the Committee to have violated the provisions of resolution 1970 (2011), particularly paragraphs 9 and 10 thereof, or to have assisted others in doing so;

Panel of experts

24. Requests the Secretary-General to create for an initial period of one year, in consultation with the Committee, a group of up to eight experts ("Panel of Experts"), under the direction of the Committee to carry out the following tasks:

(a) Assist the Committee in carrying out its mandate as specified in paragraph 24 of resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution;

(b) Gather, examine and analyse information from States, relevant United Nations bodies, regional organisations and other interested parties regarding the implementation of the measures decided in resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution, in particular incidents of non-compliance;

(c) Make recommendations on actions the Council, or the Committee or State, may consider to improve implementation of the relevant measures;

(d) Provide to the Council an interim report on its work no later than 90 days after the Panel's appointment, and a final report to the Council no later than 30 days prior to the termination of its mandate with its findings and recommendations;

25. Urges all States, relevant United Nations bodies and other interested parties, to cooperate fully with the Committee and the Panel of Experts, in particular by supplying any information at their disposal on the implementation of the measures decided in resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution, in particular incidents of non-compliance;

26. Decides that the mandate of the Committee as set out in paragraph 24 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall also apply to the measures decided in this resolution;

27. Decides that all States, including the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, shall take the necessary measures to ensure that no claim shall lie at the instance of the Libyan authorities, or of any person or body in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, or of any person claiming through or for the benefit of any such person or body, in connection with any contract or other transaction where its performance was affected by reason of the measures taken by the Security Council in resolution 1970 (2011), this resolution and related resolutions;

28. Reaffirms its intention to keep the actions of the Libyan authorities under continuous review and underlines its readiness to review at any time the measures imposed by this resolution and resolution 1970 (2011), including by strengthening, suspending or lifting those measures, as appropriate, based on compliance by the Libyan authorities with this resolution and resolution 1970 (2011).

29. Decides to remain actively seized of the matter.

reply to post by JennaDarling

The SAS deserves NO honour as it cannot follow UN orders.

Just shows your lack of understanding of some things.

The SAS are exceptionally good at what they do and act with honour and valour.

They follow the orders of the British government, no-one else.

If you must be angry and annoyed then at least direct your feelings towards the politicians who dictate policy.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

The SAS deserves NO honour as it cannot follow UN orders.

Just shows your lack of understanding of some things.

The SAS are exceptionally good at what they do and act with honour and valour.

They follow the orders of the British government, no-one else.

if you must be angry and annoyed then at least direct your feelings towards the politicians who dictate policy.

Also shows your lack of understanding of the UN charter which is the legal mandate to operate in Libya.

The British government follows orders of the UN as they are operating under that mandate under the flag of NATO, and the SAS are operating also under that mandate.

Britian is doing mission creep, they are now operating OUTSIDE the legal remit of the UN permitted operations.

This is exactly what Blair done in Iraq.

Sure they will get away with it, that is how arrogant they are.

I never once said they were not good at what they do, they bloody well are. I am saying they are now operating outside the legal remit of the UN and thus are quilty of commiting crimes.

Saying "oh we just followed British orders" is no excuse and a pretty cowardly one at that.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

The SAS deserves NO honour as it cannot follow UN orders.

Just shows your lack of understanding of some things.

The SAS are exceptionally good at what they do and act with honour and valour.

They follow the orders of the British government, no-one else.

if you must be angry and annoyed then at least direct your feelings towards the politicians who dictate policy.

We already hate the politicians for the scum that they are.

However, anyone doing their bidding is also guilty of, and complicit in, the same crimes. There is no honour in following dishonourable and dishonest agendas. The SAS are simply paid enforcers, hired killers, nothing more, nothing less and care not whether what they are doing is perceived as good or bad. The old "I was just following orders" line was supposed to have been stamped out at Nuremberg, yet we see it still to this day.

reply to post by JennaDarling


Nonsense.

The SAS are there at the wish and command of the British government and act upon orders from Westminster and not the UN.

Quote as many UN resolutions, guidelines, orders etc that you want but it does not alter the reality of the situation....and I dare say the Special Forces of every country present in Libya take their orders primarily from their respective governments.

Rightly or wrongly it's the way the world is and believing anything other is naivety to the extreme.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

Nonsense.

The SAS are there at the wish and command of the British government and act upon orders from Westminster and not the UN.

Quote as many UN resolutions, guidelines, orders etc that you want but it does not alter the reality of the situation....and I dare say the Special Forces of every country present in Libya take their orders primarily from their respective governments.

Rightly or wrrongly it's the way the world is and believing anything other is naivety to the extreme.

Who got the UN mandate in the first place?

That has to come from the floor of the countries sitting in the UN, of which Britain is one.

I will go on quoting UN resolutions as necessary as that is the entire point of the mission in Libya.

Talk about ignorant and arrogant.
So you didn't need the UN resolution, so why did you go and get it?

Why didn't Britain just invade Libya without the nato flag and the UN resolution?

Yeah.

reply to post by JennaDarling


I fully understand the point you are making....but the reality is that the SAS are carrying out the wishes of the British government...if ordered to do something by Westminster that is outside the UN mandate or remit then they would do, because that is who they are answerable to.....and the same applies to French / US or any other Special Forces.

It has nothing to do with my personal opinion or 'typical Englishness' but everything to do with reality.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

I fully understand the point you are making....but the reality is that the SAS are carrying out the wishes of the British government...if ordered to do something by Westminster that is outside the UN mandate or remit then they would do, because that is who they are answerable to.....and the same applies to French / US or any other Special Forces.

It has nothing to do with my personal opinion or 'typical Englishness' but everything to do with reality.

As the previous poster clearly said, Neuremberg clearly showed that the "I was just following orders" excuse, is not a good one to use

reply to post by JennaDarling


Depends what the order is.

I'm not sure exactly what sort of military some people would like to see, a nice democratic unit where everyone has their say before coming to a majority decision...by which time you are all dead.
The need to obey orders is paramount in all military units.

Obviously there is a moral limit that should never be exceeded.

reply to post by Freeborn


Freeborn is 100% correct. SAS do NOT take orders from the UN and they don't take orders from their Govt either; they take orders from their military command....the Generals.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Of course....but those Generals issue orders to achieve the ultimate goals and objectives set by politicians.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

Depends what the order is.

I'm not sure exactly what sort of military some people would like to see, a nice democratic unit where everyone has their say before coming to a majority decision...by which time you are all dead.
The need to obey orders is paramount in all military units.

Obviously there is a moral limit that should never be exceeded.

And legal limit.

we don't know the orders the SAS have been given, their job could be just to co-ordinate/watch and pass the information back to the locals/UN commanders without having to fire a single shot

Originally posted by Maxatoria
we don't know the orders the SAS have been given, their job could be just to co-ordinate/watch and pass the information back to the locals/UN commanders without having to fire a single shot

Naieve much?

i friend of mine directed me to this video which, at the very least, is an extremely interesting local perspective. this is one unbelievably angry, passionate person. i can literally feel the anger through the screen. i'm not endorsing any perspective but i personally was glad to have this man's input when considering the angles from other sources.

have a read of this UN Current Concerns

international law has never been upheld. the world sucks but that doesn't disgrace the honour and reputation the SAS deserve.
the SAS will always be heros.