Regardless of your opinions of 9/11 , you need to read this.

Originally posted by GreatScot
yes the aircrafts had them fitted

so show us proof of that claim.... care to show where the location is tracked?

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by GreatScotwww.abovetopsecret.com...
yes the aircrafts had them fitted

so show us proof of that claim.... care to show where the location is tracked?

Ill try, Live Monitoring Helps Engine Manufacturers

Note :

In the case of Rolls-Royce, vast amounts of data is transmitted almost instantaneously to its centres around the world, enabling the company to act swiftly on any problems.
It is this information which will be used by investigators as they seek to identify the root of the problem with the engine on the Qantas A380 flight. Rolls-Royce is not alone in offering the service, which enables the aircraft to be monitored at a control centre on the ground. Other engine builders, such as GE have also developed live monitoring, aimed at spotting and tackling potential problems. Some airlines, such as Lufthansa, one of the early purchasers of the A380, have been using this technology for some time. The computerised tracking means that if a problem is identified during a flight, details will be known by the airline’s and manufacturer’s engineers before the plane arrives at its destination.

Aircraft manufacturers, including Airbus, use similar technology to monitor not only how an aircraft is performing in real time but predict problems which may be brewing in the immediate future.It tracks what is happening to aircraft at a control centre in Toulouse, where its technicians observe what is happening in the air on a bank of television screens.

end of quote

This shows that this happens all over the world watch the videos they show you them doing it real time on computer screens and explain the details of information gathered.Im sure that you could find out more than me as im pretty bad on computers and consider myself a novice.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by tpg65

 

Evidence

911 Commission Report

Evidence

NIST Report

Evidence

Pentagon Building Performance Report

Either bring something to the table , or go and sit in a dark corner and think about what you have done

There. They are on the table. Deal with them. Show me where they aren't factual. And simply calling people liars is not dealing with the facts. Its just blind denial.

yeah, this kind of evidence has a long tradition:

report of warren commission (JFK)

project blue book (UFOs)

dodgy dossier (IRAQ)

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
reply to post by Yankee451

 

Good articles, Yankee! Thank you for posting them. Even more details and explanations as to why 9-11 was very likely an inside job. And that makes sense as to why the vaults were a target.
Oh the NWO bunch.. they are such total criminals. *shakes head*

Thanks.

Notice how most of both sides of this argument don't like to discuss any of that? It's taboo...look over here, "thousands of people"...someone would have talked...blah, blah, blah.
Hoax! Proven disinfo!"

If you want to learn the truth, don't follow the crowd.

reply to post by TerribleTeam2

So where do we go from here?

A new world order, where the saintly few rise to the top, rather than the diabolical few. Who's ready?

Originally posted by tpg65
reply to post by Enlightenme1111

 

Great find , but we can still only speculate what hit the Pentagon . One thing is undeniable.......It was not a 757.

And if they lied about the Pentagon, what did they tell the truth about?

How is this for some evidence?

It's surprising there are still a few videos still out there. Sadly, most are gone now.
I remember there being one at one point of a cop telling reporters to get back, because they were blowing up Building 7.

We can argue about fires, and pentagon until the sun goes down.

But Simply from the perspective of how many failures occurred in our security system and national defense it defies all statistical probability unless it was meant to happen.

Why would Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld change the protocol of shooting down hijacked aircraft prior to 9/11, requiring his approval ?

Where was RUMSFELD on the morning of 9/11 ?
Nowhere to be found.

Looking at all of the events that preceded the actual events...

1. FBI/CIA and even the President had been forwarned of the Hijackers.. - FAIL
2.Airport Security - FAIL
3. Airline Security, and US Marshals - FAIL
4. Hijackers armed with only Boxcutters were able to commandeer an aircraft ? - FAIL
5. Hijackers with minimal flight hours/ stick time perform precision flight maneuvers ? - FAIL
6. NORAD only minutes away at OTIS AFB - FAIL
7. Rumsfeld required his approval to shoot down hijacked aircraft, MIA on 9/11- FAIL
8. WTC collapse due to fire, the first time in history. - FAIL
9. Mohammed Atta's passport survives the fire that was able to bring down the WTC - FAIL
10. All 19 Hijackers were immediately identified after 9/11 by the FBI but not prior ?- FAIL
11. The Patriot Act, already written, was immediately enacted.- FAIL
12. Cheney and Bush refused to testify under oath..- FAIL

From the perspective of probability How in the world can so many failures occur ?
Unless these events were meant to happen...

What is even more revealing is the concerted effort to demean and discredit anyone who asks why !

So OP...feeling the love?

Get the feeling that most folks aren't interested in learning the truth, and instead just want to win an argument and prevent the next guy's argument from being heard?

You asked for collaboration, yet you see what has become of your good intentions.

I considered trying a debate format, where each hypothesis can be laid out in a thread, and one person can defend it...but the rules of this forum, banishing certain hypotheses, would make it just as much a waste of time as the rest of the conversations. Unless all hypotheses are on the table, you'll never know if you skipped the right one.

The bottom line on 911 research is the majority of the forums are like this one...the truth will be shouted down, and that further reinforces the hypothesis that the media were and are a central part in the operation.

reply to post by beltemps


I think it's Project Blue beam, and since it's not in the HOAX bin, it MUST BE TRUE!!!

reply to post by hooper

So far you've come up with no rebuttal except for hijacker plane, tower read report.

Hell i was across the river in L.I.C and could see it from the street but went to my roof to get a better view to watch and still remember what i saw, heard and smelt and tasted to the soot that covered my car and property.

I heard many explosions that morning before the collapses of the towers and later that afternoon heard more, the booms echoed liked it does on the 4th of July from the fireworks display, the sound travels up the river so did the debris.

And as for the official so called reports, it didn't even come close to adding up, having a mechanical/structural engineering degree those reports were laughable, you'd have to be deaf, dumb, blind and ignorant to buy that story.

11 sec free fall collapse not once but 3 times that day. You couldn't even get odds on that one in Vegas.

Yes jets by the photos and videos hit the buildings. On impact 80% of the fuel went up in the explosion as you can see in the photos that leaves maybe 20% of the fuel actually entering the building to cause the damage stated in those reports, The buildings were designed for an impact of a commercial jet.

No jet or large amount of debris hit building # 7 only small fires yet the building fell the same way. same type of explosions heard and witnessed.

There were explosions many of them before the towers came down and later that afternoon. plenty of witnesses from building workers to cops to fire dept to spectators heard them, i did for one.

Where were you ? where you a eye witness ? or are you taken all your info from MSM and BS reports with minimal 2 week+ investigation that sounded like they were written before hand.

IT should of taken at least 2 to 5 years for the investigation. a normal air crash investigation is months to over a year, not this one and or should i say 2 of them, in this case should of taken even longer with 2 planes all mixed up in the wreckage with the buildings but in an amazingly short amount of time they knew what was what from each plane. AHHHHH OKKKK. don't think so,. Again laughable.

If you remember they removed, hauled away and destroyed all the evidence as fast as they could. Why ? Oh yeah out of respect so they claimed and to rebuild, 10 years later still not finished rebuilding.

Who's responsible ? Good question, By the quick money making endless wars and oil, security contractors, rebuilding contractors and military contracts.
A lot of people/ corporations made a ton of money from day one on this tragedy and still are including the president and vice president, them and their families companies got the golden ring on this one.

From Cheney's stand down order on hi jacking's that came a few moths before to the FBI's lack of concern if there was even any to start with.

I'd rather defend my self in a enemy invasion by our response to the attack or total lack of it. Well after the collapse my wife left Times square on foot and was half way across the Queensboro bridge by the time the 1st F-16 was heading downtown. Why bother at that point if not for appearance of ?? got me on that one. At that point it was a waste of taxpayers dollars.

If you put all the events from before to after the attack a different story is being told not the one shoved down our throats.

If this was a trial the finger would be pointing at the government and their friends who profited, they had just cause and motive for the attack. Money, War and Power and more Money in their pockets. If you want to open another can of worms the creation of the TSA and Homeland Security and what have they done in 10 years nothing except waste more taxpayer's dollars among other things.


So what real evidence do you have ? or are you one of those people who believe everything your told or read and who'd jump off a bridge if you government told you to do so.

reply to post by guitarist


Yeah, What you said.


And I'll add, that had it not been for the likes of the media making sure most folks are following the wrong path, we would have discovered the truth in 2-5 years.

Who's responsible ? Good question, By the quick money making endless wars and oil, security contractors, rebuilding contractors and military contracts. A lot of people/ corporations made a ton of money from day one on this tragedy and still are including the president and vice president, them and their families companies got the golden ring on this one.

We are responsible. We need to start believing our lying eyes.

Here are pointers to the documents pertaining to the protocol that Rumsfeld changed on June 1st, 2001.

These are the standing orders to the military as to how to respond to hijackings over United States territory. The June 1 '01 document deliberately changed the existing policies. Previous directives were issued in 1997, 1986 and before.

"CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF INSTRUCTION, J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A"

"AIRCRAFT PIRACY (HIJACKING) AND DESTRUCTION OF DERELICT AIRBORNE OBJECTS"


(www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf )

What would necessitate changing these orders, requiring Rumsfeld's approval after the Joint Chiefs if there wasn't a plan to orchestrate flying hijacked aircraft into buildings.

Also, Buildings containing lots of valuable information.

Congratulations ! You are reading the one 9/11 website with a hope in hell of getting us somewhere : one with some actual hard documentary (literally) evidence behind it —and one that names names. You won't find the Illuminati in this one ; you won't find the claim that no planes ever hit the Trade Center, because I don't believe that ; you won't find your time wasted with "proofs" of demolitions carried out by folk who are never identified, even by speculation.

Step 1 : anyone interested in 9/11, no matter what your views on who did it, should already have a DVD copy of the film "9/11," directed by Jules and Gédéon Naudet and James Hanlon. If you think you're an expert on 9/11, but you don't have that film, you're not.

Source

He's right about the Naudet film. If you don't own it and haven't studied it, you don't know the half of it.

Raphael is not a no planer, so his excellent report will be easier to stomach for folks who need to keep seeing planes.

reply to post by patternfinder


Fact1: the 911 commission was FORCED by the victims families. The Bush government tried to evade the "OFFICIAL" investigation.

Fact 2: If you had watched the 3 day televised on CSPAN broadcast you would have seen Rumsfeld and Rice struggle with their inability to answer questions which proved they were lying or were actually just plain stupid.

Fact 3 : 911 was the first day in all of history that ANY steel structure building had pancaked into its own footprint. A great example is the TV tower in Moscow which burnt for two weeks and still stood. It was repaired and three years later it burnt again.

Fact 4: Building #7 was NOT hit by any plane yet still fell perfectly into its own footprint.

Fact 5: The 911 commission which I have read does not account for Building # 7

Fact 6 : there is NO video evidence of any plane hitting the Pentagon taking note that the Pentagon is one of the most surveilled buildings in the world.

Fact 7: When Rice was questioned about 911 she refused to acknowledge the fact that they had previous knowledge even though the title of the report was called " How Osama Bin Laden will attack the US" and had a picture of the Twin towers on the front cover and was given to her by Richard Clark head of NSA and worked under three different presidents.

Fact 8 : If you read "Against all enemies" by Richard Clark you can actually read his references to Rice's competence and the inside reaction to the " Plane" that hit the Pentagon.

Fact 9: NIST report did not account for the High temperatures at the base of the towers weeks after the event.

Fact 10 : NIST report did not account for the historical significance of all three towers magically falling into their own footprint and breaking world records

Fact 11: NIST report did not account for the high levels of "Thermade " found in the ruins

Fact 12 : BBC reported the fall of Building 7 before it fell

Fact 13 : If you believe the "Official Story" then you also believe that 19 Cave dwellers armed only with dollar store knives can bring the supposedly most powerful nation the earth has ever seen to its knees without firing one shot or even using a gun

Fact 14: If you believe the "Official Story" then you also believe that the American spy agencies, air force, military and government are completely incompetent to the point of just being plain stupid.

Fact 15: On 911 the Airforce had only 2 airplanes to protect the entire eastern seaboard and they were given directions to fly out into the middle of the Atlantic ocean ..... by mistake!

Fact 16: I could keep going but I'm sure you have enough research to do Watch CSPAN to get the real story unedited.

Originally posted by tpg65
9/11 2001 , a date that will go down in history for a multiple of reasons .

In my short time as a member of ATS I have read countless threads on the subject of 9/11 , some with very valid and well researched points and others that were not so well researched , but who still managed to make people stop and think about the subject.
Many people died on that terrible day . Fathers , mothers , sisters , brothers , friends and lovers, all perished at the hands of an unseen enemy. Wether that enemy came from without or within has sadly come down to a point of view of the individual and that my friends is a great dis-service to memory of all who died .
To coin a phrase ..." The truth is out there " . Don't we owe it to the ones who perished , to finally uncover the truth and in doing so , play a part in bringing the perpetrators to justice ?

We are so lucky to have a forum filled with such great enquiring minds . Why can't we put aside our personal loyalties and mistrusts and in doing so , work side by side to finally put together the pieces of what happened on that terrible day ?
We owe it to the memories of all who perished , those who will never be able to share another single moment with their loved ones , to work together to uncover the truth .

In searching for the truth , sometimes we uncover things that go against our beliefs , such is the nature of the beast .
If we here at ATS can work together , put aside our petty differences of opinions and look at the evidence objectively , then maybe one day we can truly honour the dead .

I'm telling you now , any trolling or off topic remarks will be reported immediately .
Let's keep this objective and stick to the facts .

edit on 29/05/2011 by tpg65 because: (no reason given)

edit on 29/05/2011 by tpg65 because: (no reason given)

Former President George W. Bush (the Short Bush) and the City of New York are about to commenorat­e 10th Anniversar­y of 9/11 but guess what, none of the 9/11 Responders­, the Police, Firefighte­rs and Medical Personal that were there that day, many of whom died and have died since from the toxins they were exposed to...The 9/11 Responders Are Not Invited! They are not invited because They Know 9/11 was an Inside Job, a False Flag Operation and the beginning of their overall plans to implode our country. Of you are one of those Imbeciles that still believes a bunch of Muslim Terrorists with Bo Cutters are responsibl­e for 9/11, you should watch the new report from the Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth

How about thinking about the "Living Peoples" Future. I'm pretty sick of this petty way to try to slam the door on the discussion.

reply to post by MajorKarma

False Flag Operation and the beginning of their overall plans to implode our country.

You gotta get over the "country". These guys are globalists, they don't think about just imploding countries, they're conquering the world.

The New World Order is the Old World Order with better graphics.

Our system isn't broken...it works just how it is intended to work, always has. Obama betrayed his constituency, just as Ron Paul would betray his...anyone who is a contender already knows the score. You can't fix a corrupt system by using that system's corrupt tools to enact change.

After 30 years of voting, not one meaningful policy has changed. Voting only lends legitimacy to corruption. Stop giving them your blessing.

reply to post by spoor

Dude think about your comment !!! What do you think would be the first thing to hit the wall if the plane was flying forward?
Just stop and think back ! have you ever seen or heard of a commercial airline that flies sideways or even backwards?
Just saying !! LOL

reply to post by MajorKarma

The 9/11 Responders Are Not Invited!

Really? So if I am a 9/11 Responder and I show up at Ground Zero on 9/11/11 I will be forcibly removed?