Why does anyone feel they are entitled to anymore of MY money?

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I would like to see the government actually try to work within it's budget, not just go out and take more money from people like me.

This is precisely what I am talking about. Too much spending, too much taxing.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

Government has ENABLED us the organization and security to produce everything we have.

In essence government does insure society, without government we would still have a society, but it would be Somalian. All the wrong things you cite as governmental shortcoming is due to the wrong people being allowed to have seats. Also the influence that money has on those individuals, that problem can be fixed.

What the Founders wrote merely highlights they weren't perfect as they are often praised. Yes society existed before government, but it was such chaos that mankind found it impossible to advance very far.

GOVERNMENT DOES NOT ENABLE ANYTHING except theft plunder and oppression! Somalia exist in the current state because government destroyed the more self sufficient cultures of its people then collapsed under it own weight. You are completely delusional and brain washed with Marxist tripe. You're the kind of dupe communist have used to for decades to foment revolution and genocide etc.

One of the most sophisticated societies of Europe existed 1000 years in relative peace freedom and prosperity with no government! PDF www.mises.org...

Please elevate yourself to the 21st Century. Why are you still using words such as marxist and communist...those things are history. As will soon be capitalism (I wonder if I will be warning my grandkids about capitalism and its evils).

Correction, corrupt government enabled by corrupt individuals destroyed the self sufficient cultures of many peoples. Causing the government and society to collapse into savagery, whilst enabling the same corrupt people from the government to maintain some barbaric power.

Which is exactly what may happen in America if we allow. We have people who HATE government, working in our government! (What sense does that make? Would you hire someone who hates children to babysitt your children?) These people are going to destroy our society and withdraw with the money and muscle they've accumulated to die of old age.

A culture could exist without government 1000 years ago. They didn't have such things as aviation, national defense, oil drilling, huge corporations, brain surgery. Our society is much to advanced to exist without a government.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
None of this is the fault of the ideology of government.

Not the ideology of the government but the ideology of those in the government. And I, for one, am tired of it.

So you see the way to fix your problem then? Remove those who are screwing the government up! Insert individuals who will make government function the way it was designed.

You don't trash the pistol because some idiot was shooting it in a sideways stance and missing the target. You get someone who knows what they're doing and holds it in a proper stance and watch how the pistol works just fine. It's always the handler...

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
So you see the way to fix your problem then? Remove those who are screwing the government up! Insert individuals who will make government function the way it was designed.

You don't trash the pistol because some idiot was shooting it in a sideways stance and missing the target. You get someone who knows what they're doing and holds it in a proper stance and watch how the pistol works just fine. It's always the handler...

Your analogy is not completely accurate. There are people diametrically opposed to my viewpoint looking to load another pistol and point it at me.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
So you see the way to fix your problem then? Remove those who are screwing the government up! Insert individuals who will make government function the way it was designed.

You don't trash the pistol because some idiot was shooting it in a sideways stance and missing the target. You get someone who knows what they're doing and holds it in a proper stance and watch how the pistol works just fine. It's always the handler...

Your analogy is not completely accurate. There are people diametrically opposed to my viewpoint looking to load another pistol and point it at me.

You see there is where we have to learn to swallow our ego and self righteousness. We have to realize that "our viewpoint" is the enemy of all of society and has been for eons. "Our viewpoint" has caused the oppression and death of billions of people since the beginning of time. What do you think most conflicts are caused by...."our viewpoint".

Some of us will yell that we are for freedom, when in actuality, we are ONLY for freedom of those who share "our viewpoint". At the risk of introducing partisan bickering....as common with people who identify as Conservative. They will yell they want freedom...unless you're talking about freedom for gays or to do drugs. That is hypocricy and dishonesty.

I consider myself to be someone TRULY for freedom. I'm not gay...but I can careless if anyone chooses to be and even wants to get married. I don't do drugs but I can careless if anyone chooses too. Ask anyone screaming their about freedom one of those questions or several other hot topic ones and see rather they are hypocrits.

So basically, we as people need to stop acting as if "our #### doesn't stink".

reply to post by DZAG Wright

Please elevate yourself to the 21st Century. Why are you still using words such as marxist and communist...those things are history.

I live in the 21st century with endless war, theft, and oppression all due to government! It is you who needs to learn from history. You are a Marxist pure and simple spouting Marxist communist ideology and claming it is some modern advancement, that is why those words are relevant!

Correction, corrupt government enabled by corrupt individuals destroyed the self sufficient cultures of many peoples. Causing the government and society to collapse into savagery, whilst enabling the same corrupt people from the government to maintain some barbaric power.

Show us a time when government was not corrupt and doing all those things?

Which is exactly what may happen in America if we allow.

It has already happening due to government!

A culture could exist without government 1000 years ago. They didn't have such things as aviation, national defense, oil drilling, huge corporations, brain surgery. Our society is much to advanced to exist without a government.

You have it backwards we are much too advanced to need government or central authority of any kind. they had national defense, energy needs companies and surgery etc. The principles of freedom and self determination are timeless they worked thousands of years ago and they will work even better now. It is people thinking for themselves and using self determination that made those advancements not government, but in spite of government. Without government intervention killing innovation and entrepreneurship we would be far more advanced and not using 150 year old polluting technology for transportation and communications etc. anymore.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
You see there is where we have to learn to swallow our ego and self righteousness. We have to realize that "our viewpoint" is the enemy of all of society and has been for eons.

And whose viewpoint should I have other than my own?

At the risk of introducing partisan bickering....as common with people who identify as Conservative. They will yell they want freedom...unless you're talking about freedom for gays or to do drugs. That is hypocricy and dishonesty.

I am not interested in what people do in the privacy of their own home. I do not know why you are even making this a point of contention as my Original Post has to do with exhorbitant taxes and not citizens personal freedoms. Placing me in a compartment with others that you disagree with because of my stance on taxes is over generalizing.

Ask anyone screaming their about freedom one of those questions or several other hot topic ones and see rather they are hypocrits.

I have zero interest in determining a person's political affiliation. I just want the government to stop confiscating more of my money.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

Please elevate yourself to the 21st Century. Why are you still using words such as marxist and communist...those things are history.

I live in the 21st century with endless war, theft, and oppression all due to government! It is you who needs to learn from history. You are a Marxist pure and simple spouting Marxist communist ideology and claming it is some modern advancement, that is why those words are relevant!

Correction, corrupt government enabled by corrupt individuals destroyed the self sufficient cultures of many peoples. Causing the government and society to collapse into savagery, whilst enabling the same corrupt people from the government to maintain some barbaric power.

Show us a time when government was not corrupt and doing all those things?

Which is exactly what may happen in America if we allow.

It has already happening due to government!

A culture could exist without government 1000 years ago. They didn't have such things as aviation, national defense, oil drilling, huge corporations, brain surgery. Our society is much to advanced to exist without a government.

You have it backwards we are much too advanced to need government or central authority of any kind. they had national defense, energy needs companies and surgery etc. The principles of freedom and self determination are timeless they worked thousands of years ago and they will work even better now. It is people thinking for themselves and using self determination that made those advancements not government, but in spite of government. Without government intervention killing innovation and entrepreneurship we would be far more advanced and not using 150 year old polluting technology for transportation and communications etc. anymore.

I have to ask for clarification: Do you believe the government is a living, breathing, entity? It is not, it is merely a tool, same as a gun. Are you for the confiscation and destruction of all handguns? If not why not?

I'll break it down piece, by piece to help you understand.

Marxism and communism are both dead, as soon will be capitalism. It's time for a new player, we've seen the shortcomings of all three ideologies. So we will make corrections and advance.

No, we are not advanced enough to where we do not need government. As long as we have psychopaths, thieves, murderers and the unsympathetic we will need government. Do you even know what the bare-bones purpose of government is?

Government is basically WE, all the people agreeing/compromising to some rules of society.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Well we should all evaluate our viewpoint. Trust me it makes life a lot easier for you, when you stop judging or even wanting to judge anyone else.

That's what it basically boils down to....the need to judge other people.

Your original post was about when was enough for the government in the form of taxes. I responded to the effect that it's enough when we as a society agree it is....not just in word but in action.

If we agree that only 5% should be the tax rate, well we should budget ourselves for a government that has 5% to do EVERYTHING it has too. You're probably fine with that....but will you be fine when you recognize what 5% tax rate will get us with a country of 300 million people? Will you be fine that probably most of the things our government fund will disappear, drug research, infrastructure, etc., will have to be gone.

It's why I say many do not even know what they are asking for...just whining.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by newcovenant

 

If you should not be forced to pay for his kids school, why should he be forced to pay for yours when his kids are not attending the same school?

RE The minimum standards: What a joke. Look at the test scores and graduation rates since the formation of the dept of education. Look at literacy rates. Be serious. The dept of education is an example of Orwellian double speak.

I have no children. Why should I be forced to pay ANY of his?

Socialism.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Trust me it makes life a lot easier for you, when you stop judging or even wanting to judge anyone else.

The only people I judge are the ones who feel they are entitled to my earnings.

If we agree that only 5% should be the tax rate, well we should budget ourselves for a government that has 5% to do EVERYTHING it has too. You're probably fine with that....but will you be fine when you recognize what 5% tax rate will get us with a country of 300 million people? Will you be fine that probably most of the things our government fund will disappear, drug research, infrastructure, etc., will have to be gone.

The government should not be involved with drug research and it has mismanaged our infrastructure fund (gasoline tax) so it obviously can not do that as well. Your etc. is vague, anything else you think the government can do better than the ones you previously mentioned?

It's why I say many do not even know what they are asking for...just whining.

If you feel that whining is not being happy when almost 50% of what you make is directed towards all levels of government then I say, "Good for you" the government obviously needs more generous people such as yourself. Give until it hurts.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
I agree 100% OP. I am leaving my job in a few weeks and I plan to go on unemployment and get all of the other socialist entitlements I possibly can. Between federal, state, local and property taxes I pay over 40k/year in taxes. I say ENOUGH!!! I QUIT! By the time I grab all of the benefits I can, I hope to become a net loss of 75k or more to the "system". Unless you know where I can find Galt's Gulch, I quit. I am done subsidizing the lazy.

"lazy" is used far too often. there are plenty of hard working americans that were laid off and just cannot find work. I mean a prime example is in Florida in that town that was basically kept alive by nasa. are the people in that town lazy too? there are engineers that are going to be jobless soon and cannot find work as well. are these people also lazy? are these people supposed to go fight in line for the 1 job at walmart that 100k other people are also applying for (and still will not be able to make ends meet). I get sick of reading posts where the poster just sums up people that are in need as lazy. its tough right now for a lot of people.

Rocket Scientists may need to go on unemployment

JPL layoffs

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


No, but it is the poor minority that continues to vote for the rich, elitist politicians.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


You need to read what I wrote again, because it went completely over your head. The Democrat party has pandered to, and continues to pander to, the poor, the downtrodden, the oppressed, etc. The only reason they do this is to earn their vote.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by newcovenant

 

If you should not be forced to pay for his kids school, why should he be forced to pay for yours when his kids are not attending the same school?

RE The minimum standards: What a joke. Look at the test scores and graduation rates since the formation of the dept of education. Look at literacy rates. Be serious. The dept of education is an example of Orwellian double speak.

I have no children. Why should I be forced to pay ANY of his?

Socialism.

Wondered why my post is recopied here without anyone adding to it?
I did say that forcing me without children, to pay any part of either a private school voucher or a public school tax is SOCIALISM.

Are you agreeing with me?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


If you're a millionaire/billionaire then the answer is YES, the unwashed masses of humanity ARE entitled to what you BELIVE is "your" money which you've gained by GAMING a system which virtually enslaves a portion of the masses.

If you are not a millionaire/billionaire.. then the answer is slightly or NO.

In either case, STFU and stop whining. You are doing quite well and are amongst the least oppressed/suffering people on the planet. THERE IS NO REVOLUTION FOR YOU, you are the status-quo, I re-iterate, STFU.


Please see my thread for more detail on whether or not the Rich "deserve" their money:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by newcovenant

 

If you should not be forced to pay for his kids school, why should he be forced to pay for yours when his kids are not attending the same school?

RE The minimum standards: What a joke. Look at the test scores and graduation rates since the formation of the dept of education. Look at literacy rates. Be serious. The dept of education is an example of Orwellian double speak.

I have no children. Why should I be forced to pay ANY of his?

Socialism.

Wondered why my post is recopied here without anyone adding to it?
I did say that forcing me without children, to pay any part of either a private school voucher or a public school tax is SOCIALISM.

Are you agreeing with me?

WRONG. Socialism is a complex socio-politco-economic theory.

FORCING people to pay taxes is called TAXATION, which is a facet of government coercion, which is a facet of EVERY SINGLE NATION-STATE EVER TO EXIST. And no... you cannot suddenly slap your 2-minutes-hate buzzword "socialism" on every government policy you decide is evil. STFU, do your homework, and stop demonizing socialism when it's probably done more good for you than bad within the system.

Keep in mind that the terminology coming from the white house, terms like "fair share" and such, are not terms used to refer to any capitalist system. They are words used to describe socialist ideals. They are phrases worded to convince people that they are doing good deeds by taking your money and giving it to someone else because hey - it's fair. Another phrase used in this manner is "common-sense". "Common-sense gun laws", "common-sense measures". That one makes me cringe because it usually means the opposite, that lawmakers are throwing common sense out the window.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Keep in mind that the terminology coming from the white house, terms like "fair share" and such, are not terms used to refer to any capitalist system. They are words used to describe socialist ideals. They are phrases worded to convince people that they are doing good deeds by taking your money and giving it to someone else because hey - it's fair. Another phrase used in this manner is "common-sense". "Common-sense gun laws", "common-sense measures". That one makes me cringe because it usually means the opposite, that lawmakers are throwing common sense out the window.

Your unconscious assumption is that markets are a free, noble, and wild beast chained and rabid at the hands of government.

What you don't realize is that markets/property/monetary systems go hand in hand with governments/nation states and that they are BOTH capable of intense/tyrannical rabid oppression and destruction.

Wealth and power both corrupt. The market is NOT infallible, the government, obviously, is fallible. What the left has realized for decades is that both government and markets need to be scrutinized and resisted as much as possible when needed... what the right has JUST RECENTLY realized is that the government is oppressive, they still cling to markets and hate what their ideologues have falsely branded as "socialism".

Socialism, within the system, delivers more benefits to the masses than not. Ask modern Germans, Scandinavians, French, Canadians, etc. They're smarter, freer, healthier, happier, and have more social benefits than we do... and all without some tyrannical commie government that blinded right-wingers of this country so fear.

Man... I'd sure like to hear some logical solutions to these problems instead of the same old BITCHING. If you're tired of paying taxes then stop. If everyone stopped, what could they do? You might also do well to curb your generalizations... Just because many people have not done as well financially as you does not mean they have worked any less. There are plenty of people who have worked just as hard or dare I say harder than you and were not as lucky to be in such a position to BITCH. All of the whining is just noise. Start taking some action, try joining the HUMAN race, quit furthering the distance between US and THEM or THOSE PEOPLE and maybe then something will change. You can't use this capitalist machine to make your wealth then condemn it when it finally breaks under the debt it was built upon. Until you get that chip off your shoulder and finally realize the AMERICAN DREAM is not only OVER but was a FAIRY TALE to begin with, your rants will continue to fall on deaf ears. There can be no more YOU or I, there can only be WE. I hope you can move past your anger and start moving toward HUMANITY.