Genesis: A Comparative Analysis

reply to post by Akragon


First a general comment:

You CAN actually make 'something' from 'nothing'. The problem which practically always arises in this context is semantic, in that most people relate to 'something' and 'nothing' from ordinary-life pragmatism. 'Something' is obervable, 'nothing' can be either the concept of absolute vacuum OR the (presently) unobservable.

In a possible 'outside' of this (observed) cosmos the 'somethings' and 'nothings' will be very different from those mankind is used to. Kaboom goes 'intelligent design'; there's no rational 'bridge' of any kind between the observed (known) to the unobserved (unknown). And 'intelligent design' claims to be rational.

Quote from your quote: ["Phase II was the creation of the Universe. God created the Universe so that it would support physical life." "]

This is the 'intelligent design' concept. In science/logic a cosmos like ours, based on asymmetrical polarities (popularly called 'dualistic') compexity is practically the given outsome. Complexity can be biological life, it can be awareness with self-organizing possibilities or it can be just.....complexity....as we can't even conceptualize.

So it's honky-dory to expect e.g. 'life' in cosmos, but it's anybody's guess to postulate a primary cause on theist speculations.

Quote: ["The Master held up a hand, "I'll get to it. God gave the Angels the task of searching the Infinities that contained the Universe until they found the green jewel. Or, the Earth if you please."]

If he made the bleeped thing and is omniscient, why would he need anybody to search for specific details.

Quote: ["I was able to show that since Quantum Reality shows that there are actually an infinite number of universes in parallel,"]

Whut, whut, whut...Quantum REALITY?. This is a hypothesis.

Quote: ["Reality is simply a complex pattern that is ever changing."]

The 'master' got that one right at least. But it presupposes randomness to some extent. Or 'free will'.

Quote: ["Once the Jewel we called Earth was found, God revealed his plan to his Angels. A plan so important to God, that he sent Lucifer and the third of the Angels under his leadership to come to Earth and help the lifeforms here achieve their ultimate potential. And for millions and millions of years all was according to God's plan."]

As our 'dualistic' cosmos (as any other dualistic cosmos) with a very high degree of probability will develop complexity, the 'plans for earth' concerning further compexity growth is just one small option in a very big cosmos. No reason to single out earth as 'special'.

Which makes this sounds exactly like the 'ancient astronaut' hypothesis from the available data.

reply to post by bogomil

You CAN actually make 'something' from 'nothing'. The problem which practically always arises in this context is semantic, in that most people relate to 'something' and 'nothing' from ordinary-life pragmatism. 'Something' is obervable, 'nothing' can be either the concept of absolute vacuum OR the (presently) unobservable.

Ah but we've discussed the "absolute vacuum" i believe... technically speaking "an absolute vacuum' isn't possible. Even in the most "absolute vacuum" there is still particals within.

Now are we talking about manifesting here or what?

If he made the bleeped thing and is omniscient, why would he need anybody to search for specific details.

Good point... Though many people make the same arguement about God existing. IF he is omniscient why does "he" let people suffer.... etc etc. Which leads me to believe that IF this is true about angels, they also have their own lessons, agendas, and untimately a purpose.

Whut, whut, whut...Quantum REALITY?. This is a hypothesis.

Remember this isn't my story... I just enjoyed reading it.

The 'master' got that one right at least. But it presupposes randomness to some extent. Or 'free will'.

I wouldn't say that, he says the universe is a complex ever changing "thing"... that doesn't assume hes speaking about our species.

As our 'dualistic' cosmos (as any other dualistic cosmos) with a very high degree of probability will develop complexity, the 'plans for earth' concerning further compexity growth is just one small option in a very big cosmos. No reason to single out earth as 'special'.

I don't think he meant earth is special considering he states that life is all over the universe. Likely planets like ours are all over the cosmos, perhaps they have their own "angels" and "demons" as well. Perhaps its considered "special" in this context because its where we are.

reply to post by Akragon


You wrote:

["technically speaking "an absolute vacuum' isn't possible."]

Not in a cosmic context. I was including the extra-cosmic option of a conceptual absolute vacuum (compared to mankind's standards of 'something' and 'nothing'). As I sometimes call it 'something nothing' or 'nothing nothing'.

Quote: ["Remember this isn't my story... I just enjoyed reading it."]

I know. The 'whuts' were directed at the quote.

Quote: ["I wouldn't say that, he says the universe is a complex ever changing "thing"... that doesn't assume hes speaking about our species."]

My inclusion of 'free will' in this context also refers to other 'complexities' than mankind.

Quote: ["I don't think he meant earth is special considering he states that life is all over the universe. Likely planets like ours are all over the cosmos, perhaps they have their own "angels" and "demons" as well. Perhaps its considered "special" in this context because its where we are."]

Sending out angels searching for a green jewel sounds 'special'. And an omnipotent creator could just 'terraform' any planet to any needs.

reply to post by Akragon


Well this wont work

I thought it was a standard bit of dogma for Christians that the fall was because of A&E using their free will and eating the apple*

In your story, Satan is the only one who’s exercising his free will – he is therefore the one responsible for the fall – and since Satan was in the employment of bible god at this time, its bible god who should stand to cover any damages caused by his employees

We as tenants of this universe have a right to complain if the landlord sends incompetents to do tasks for the landlord, landlord should also have some safeguards in place to prevent outside interference of the tenants in their enjoyment of said universe

*yes ok a moments thought would tell you it was the talking snake/Satan who employed their free will given that A&E where shiny and new and didn’t have a clue about good and evil and so on

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Well this wont work

I thought it was a standard bit of dogma for Christians that the fall was because of A&E using their free will and eating the apple*

In your story, Satan is the only one who’s exercising his free will – he is therefore the one responsible for the fall – and since Satan was in the employment of bible god at this time, its bible god who should stand to cover any damages caused by his employees

We as tenants of this universe have a right to complain if the landlord sends incompetents to do tasks for the landlord, landlord should also have some safeguards in place to prevent outside interference of the tenants in their enjoyment of said universe

*yes ok a moments thought would tell you it was the talking snake/Satan who employed their free will given that A&E where shiny and new and didn’t have a clue about good and evil and so on

edit on 25-8-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

This is a quite brilliant and unusual perspective you have presented here.

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Well this wont work

I thought it was a standard bit of dogma for Christians that the fall was because of A&E using their free will and eating the apple*

In your story, Satan is the only one who’s exercising his free will – he is therefore the one responsible for the fall – and since Satan was in the employment of bible god at this time, its bible god who should stand to cover any damages caused by his employees

We as tenants of this universe have a right to complain if the landlord sends incompetents to do tasks for the landlord, landlord should also have some safeguards in place to prevent outside interference of the tenants in their enjoyment of said universe

*yes ok a moments thought would tell you it was the talking snake/Satan who employed their free will given that A&E where shiny and new and didn’t have a clue about good and evil and so on

edit on 25-8-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

This isn't "standard" Christian thought...

consider the site it came from
reluctant-messenger.com...

reply to post by Akragon


Well this story is just a reworking of paradise lost but with a sci-fi flavour – if they make this in to a film I would probable go see it

But even Milton couldn’t disguise the non-sense of genesis, which when you get down to it was the point of paradise lost and your sci-fi version suffers from the same problem

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by Akragon

 

Well this story is just a reworking of paradise lost but with a sci-fi flavour – if they make this in to a film I would probable go see it

But even Milton couldn’t disguise the non-sense of genesis, which when you get down to it was the point of paradise lost and your sci-fi version suffers from the same problem

I'll have to take your word for it...

I've never read paradise lost...

Apparently it's just to accept, that missioning christians see no possibility (or possibly as some would put it: No need) of a comparative analysis of genesis.

This knowledge can be stored and remembered, when the next claim of 'absolute truth' turns up. Then such a claim can legitimately be put in the box of 'agnostic positions' together with all other similar 'absolute' christian claims.

(For readers unfamiliar with the term 'agnostic position' this simply means....."We can't validate this" as opposed to "We have faith in....")

Bump, due to misclick...


Whups....

reply to post by Akragon


I would like to suggest that chapter 2 starting in verse 4 is a continuation of either the first or second day of creation.

Genesis 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Heaven and earth created on 1st day - plants created on 3rd day. to me this means that we are talking about either the first or second day of creation and man was created as a living soul not to receive his physical body until later and also that Eden may or may not be a part of heaven or earth.

other things I wonder about:
chapter 1 God430. chapter 2 Lord3068 God430
chapter 2 Man becomes Adam
chapter 2: 16,17 man free to stay in garden forever warned about eating knowledge tree and receiving physical body?

retro