Things to consider before voting in 2012. We, the United States do not have a financial problem.

We Have a Discipline Problem

Doesn't matter if you are Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, or any other party you associate yourself with. These are things to consider before choosing the next leaders of this country.

We, have failed. As a nation. As a people. It did not come down to one president, nor one party. It is a collective fail between all who live in this country. We are reaping what we have sown. The list to answer:

Are you undisciplined with your own money? do you live right against the line of spending it all? Living above your means? Living in a way that you spend first, save second and give last? then you are a part of the problem.

Are you greedy? most people do not see greed. Greed is the thought process that if its in your hands it is meant for your consumption. Is 98% of what you have..all yours? Then you are Greedy. You are a part of the problem.

Are you paying taxes? or stealing from them? working the numbers? fudging them for your benefit, to get out of paying what you really owe? Then you are a part of the problem.

Men: are you taking responsibility for the children you have given birth to?

Are you on disability even though you can work? do you get food stamps because you cannot afford food, yet, you have a computer? cell phone? internet? xbox? tv? car? etc etc etc, on welfare? yet afford cigarettes, alcohol,? Then you are a part of the problem.

Failure of nerve? do you lose the nerve to say what needs to be said, with family, friends, work,

Drugs? contributing to child abuse, abuse of women, poverty? buying, selling and using drugs makes you a participant to these issues. You are a part of the problem.

Our problems as a nation, do not stem from a "financial" problem. They stem from an abuse of prosperity problem. A discipline problem. The issue? we have not needed to be disciplined because we have an abundance of resources as a nation. Which has led to entitlement, causing spoiled whiney people. Greed, failure of nerve. Not just in government, but in a nation as a whole. Our measure of wealth has come down to if you own an xbox or not. Even our poor, when measured up to what is true poverty...are not poor. As a people, if we even want to attempt to fix our nation, then we need address these problems within ourselves first.

Mature people do not look for someone to blame. They look for something to do.



These are lessons I learned today from a man I hold in great respect.

We must realize there are alternative solutions to our common problems. However, solutions must be based in liberty or they won't work. There is only us vs. them. There is no right or left - Democrat or Republican. There is only those who wish to be free and those that wish to enslave us.

reply to post by Smack


Yes, but we cannot be free, if we ourselves are part of the problem. How can we sit there, saying what our own government should or should not do, when we ourselves are also guilty? We cannot be free if we are hypocrites.

reply to post by Nkinga


sounds good but you dont make any sense. "The people" arent the ones full of greed and lack of discipline, its the gov officials, big business, and banks.

"The people" dont want to go to war over nothing because they as a country will lose money and more importantly lose their unselfish (ie. not greedy) loved ones who join the military with good intentions.

And even though we as a country lose money in war, where does that money go??? To the pockets of individuals. Individuals who own loan companies (banks) and make war products(big business). then they pay the people who made them rich (gov officials)


so... not too attack you or anything, but maybe you should just read ats for a while and learn instead of diluting the actual good content on here.

reply to post by iSHRED


But that is totally untrue. Read the questions I posted...if you are guilty of any one of those questions, then yes, you are a part of the problem, then yes, if you answer truthfully to any one of the questions I posted in the Yay, then that is a form of greed. American, humans, as a whole are essentially greedy.

we can completely remove the oil industry and not use fossil fuels AT ALL!!! And you know who that is good for... me, you, your mom, my dog, mother nature, planet earth, the universe!!! and who is it not good for, the few people in the world making money off of oil. They are the greedy ones, killing our planet to make a buck. Dont aim at the people and say its our fault.

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by iSHRED

 

But that is totally untrue. Read the questions I posted...if you are guilty of any one of those questions, then yes, you are a part of the problem, then yes, if you answer truthfully to any one of the questions I posted in the Yay, then that is a form of greed. American, humans, as a whole are essentially greedy.

k i may answer yes to some of those but i never claimed to be perfect, i am righteous through faith not by works.
Even with that i still try to do the right thing and think of others before myself. Give money to homeless, help people on the side of the road, feed homeless, and any other chance i see to help someone. but me losing my temper or deciding i want something for myself doesnt = collapse of a country. people are the same all over the world but their countries and crashing.

reply to post by Nkinga


My point is...we cannot sit here blaming our own government for the "financial" problem in America..when we ourselves are guilty of those same "financial" undisciplines. No, we may not want to spend money on war, but we will take our 1200 a month paycheck and buy a house that costs us 2000 a month. We will get credit cards, and make the monthly payment to the maximum amount, when we can't even afford half of it. We will buy a car that we can't afford to put insurance on, or that causes us each month to go completely broke in our own pockets. We will go out to dinner and spend 60 dollars, When we can make the same meal at home for a quarter of that. These are all a collective problem..and then we want to cry and whine, and fudge the numbers, so that we don't pay our taxes, turn around and sign up for whatever government program we can get on, that is paid by those very same taxes...and then wonder, wonder why, our own politicians do the same.

reply to post by iSHRED


Maybe you as an individual...but now take 10 individuals, 20...100...1,000, 100,000, 100,000,000....etc etc etc..with that same way of thinking......and what do you have? a collective nation with a discipline problem.

It's really --difficult-- to get approved for Disability, you have to make one --hell-- of a case, and then they'l still say "no". Why don't you employ an "able bodied" mentaly ill person, and watch what happens. They don't stay long.
Why don't we stop nation building. Two billion a week in Afghanistan. Never mind what the amount for the other two.
Stop putting everything on "the least of these"

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by Nkinga

 

My point is...we cannot sit here blaming our own government for the "financial" problem in America..when we ourselves are guilty of those same "financial" undisciplines. No, we may not want to spend money on war, but we will take our 1200 a month paycheck and buy a house that costs us 2000 a month. We will get credit cards, and make the monthly payment to the maximum amount, when we can't even afford half of it. We will buy a car that we can't afford to put insurance on, or that causes us each month to go completely broke in our own pockets. We will go out to dinner and spend 60 dollars, When we can make the same meal at home for a quarter of that. These are all a collective problem..and then we want to cry and whine, and fudge the numbers, so that we don't pay our taxes, turn around and sign up for whatever government program we can get on, that is paid by those very same taxes...and then wonder, wonder why, our own politicians do the same.

You are somewhat right about this but you have the motive wrong, people are greedy and it usually human nature. but people wont usually choose the greedy path when it has a direct negative effect on another person. But TPTB take advantage of our greed and set traps of debt for us. Enslaving us to work for the system forever. thats their plan... make us slaves.

Originally posted by Nkinga
We Have a Discipline Problem

Doesn't matter if you are Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, or any other party you associate yourself with. These are things to consider before choosing the next leaders of this country.

We, have failed. As a nation. As a people. It did not come down to one president, nor one party. It is a collective fail between all who live in this country. We are reaping what we have sown. The list to answer:

Are you undisciplined with your own money? do you live right against the line of spending it all? Living above your means? Living in a way that you spend first, save second and give last? then you are a part of the problem.

Are you greedy? most people do not see greed. Greed is the thought process that if its in your hands it is meant for your consumption. Is 98% of what you have..all yours? Then you are Greedy. You are a part of the problem.

Are you paying taxes? or stealing from them? working the numbers? fudging them for your benefit, to get out of paying what you really owe? Then you are a part of the problem.

Men: are you taking responsibility for the children you have given birth to?

Are you on disability even though you can work? do you get food stamps because you cannot afford food, yet, you have a computer? cell phone? internet? xbox? tv? car? etc etc etc, on welfare? yet afford cigarettes, alcohol,? Then you are a part of the problem.

Failure of nerve? do you lose the nerve to say what needs to be said, with family, friends, work,

Drugs? contributing to child abuse, abuse of women, poverty? buying, selling and using drugs makes you a participant to these issues. You are a part of the problem.

Our problems as a nation, do not stem from a "financial" problem. They stem from an abuse of prosperity problem. A discipline problem. The issue? we have not needed to be disciplined because we have an abundance of resources as a nation. Which has led to entitlement, causing spoiled whiney people. Greed, failure of nerve. Not just in government, but in a nation as a whole. Our measure of wealth has come down to if you own an xbox or not. Even our poor, when measured up to what is true poverty...are not poor. As a people, if we even want to attempt to fix our nation, then we need address these problems within ourselves first.

Mature people do not look for someone to blame. They look for something to do.

edit on 21-8-2011 by Nkinga because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2011 by Nkinga because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-8-2011 by Nkinga because: (no reason given)

I highlighted the obvious hipocracy in bold....aside of that you are partly right and I agree with many of the backwards societal functioning of the US.

HOWEVER, we truly do know no better, the US culture is completely saturated with "the american dream" with is laden with the problems you addressed above. The education system addresses irrelevent information or propaghanda. The education system doesn't address money management or loans etc in any manner that prepares people for the inevitable tsunami of credit card officer they WILL without a doubt recieve in the mail.

Yes the people may be part of the problem but I am convicned MOST do not know any better...and the ones that do have been trying to make even the smallest dent in the "american dream" and wake people up...it's damn near impossible though, you are competing with GENERATIONS of brain washing and social conditioning.

reply to post by Nkinga


sounds like a flyer about the 'Million Man March' a few years back... for us to Man-Up

you make us all sound like a pack of slackers who listen to the sunday sermon for a hour and go back to our schemes all workweek to make this a total sodom/gamorrah in thought & deed

reply to post by iSHRED


yes, the problem is,....we fall into it ourselves. There are very few of us, and tell me if I am wrong..that hold to the "give first, save second...live on the rest" mentality. Most of america...today...has the mentality of "live on the majorirty, save what I have left over and ...at special times, I'll give a little." I'm guilty of this...especially when it comes to my children and christmas...I'm more apt to put that extra money in my pocket to buy them that one extra gift (when they have way to much to begin with even without christmas) but there is an angel tree right there in the store..that I pass on my way to the toy section. We fall into what our own government lays out for us.

The housing market..how many out there..got approved for an amount..that they knew..knew they could not afford, but found a house to the maximum amount they were given? How many got credit cards with a 10k+ limit..and the mentality that, hey I can pay the minimum amount, but failed to consider if they could pay that minimum should they get sick, lose work, have a baby...etc etc etc.

The point? before we can lay blame elsewhere? we have to fix ourselves and our way of thinking first. We are the people..we decide who get to run this country. It can no longer come down to Democrat, Republican, Tea, independent. A politician is a politician is a politician. It has to come down to us fixing our way of thinking...recognizing there are logs in our eyes, before we can blow out the sawdust in others, then, only then, can we make a clear decision on who should be elected to run our nation.

reply to post by Sly1one


We are competing with the mentality of "I want it..and I want it now." Age of technology..you want to know the answer to a question..you can get it within seconds by simply typing on a keypad...you want to buy something? hey..heres my trusty credit card to get it now..pay later. Spoiled...the sense of entitlement..which comes with an abundance of resources. Which in turn makes us greedy vicious cycle.

reply to post by St Udio


That is exactly what we have become.

Originally posted by iSHRED
people are the same all over the world

I disagree. The most well adjusted, hard working and APPRECIATIVE Americans I have met are not originally from America. Americans tend to be spoiled and have a sense of entitlement instead of a sense of hard work.

Originally posted by iSHRED
we can completely remove the oil industry and not use fossil fuels AT ALL!!! And you know who that is good for... me, you, your mom, my dog, mother nature, planet earth, the universe!!! and who is it not good for, the few people in the world making money off of oil. They are the greedy ones, killing our planet to make a buck. Dont aim at the people and say its our fault.

No bro your wrong and if you would wake up...step away from ATS and do some thinking for yourself. You wouldn't be saying what you are saying. These wars...these companies...they are stimulating the economy because we are so screwed as a NATION and as a world. We "the people" have spent our money in irresponsible ways, taking loans out because we want that dodge charger when we already have a ford mustang. The new $2500+ tv...ipads... iphones. In fact Apple is a prime example where "the people's" money is going.

With all this spending as a nation we have screwed ourselves in the long run because when "the people" default on a loan, how is the government going to pay their loans....................................by printing more money.

Now with removing the companies and removing the wars, we solve nothing but more unemployment. Think about it for a sec. If we remove the oil companies...what happens to the gas companies? what happens to all those jobs that they can no longer pay? A prime example would be what happened about 10 years ago I think. A company started melting down tires and turning our roads into used tires. Great idea right! Roads lasted longer...tires weren't going out as quick...better gas mileage. Unfortunately, it killed a lot of jobs.

The point is that we are in too deep. We are in a slump and its going to continue being a slump. The only way to recover is to start over or become democratic socialist country but who honestly wants that.

Are you implying that because "efficiency" kills "jobs" that we should instead continue to be reliant on "inefficient" job creating wastefullness? Absurd....

I understand you wan't to "blame" the american people and to a degree it makes a lot of sense, however you aren't addressing a huge ISSUE and that is..........WHY ARE WE SO SPOILED AND INSTANT GRATIFICATION BASED AS A SOCIETY?!?!???????????????????????????????????????????//

because...the American Dream has been shoveled down our throughts and stuffed our heads since we were capable of digesting any form of information............

Who fed us this plate full of gluttony? $$ BIG BUSINESS $$ creating those "JOBS" that create WASTE because if we can employ 100 Americans to create a T-Shirt we are a "legitimate" business right?? Because the more people we get to participate in this BUFFET known as the American Dream the MORE we can stuff in our own pockets!!!

AMERICANS aren't broke because they are so incredibly gluttonous they want a $2500 TV
NOT because they wan't a vehicle to get to work in that isn't a "lemon"....
NOT because they want a roof over their heads and their families heads....

AMERICANS are broke becaue they have the MOST RICH/ELITE with 10 $2500 TV's in their 15 room 14,000 square foot COMPLEX they pass off as a house that needs it own staff to manage and upkeep but no no we can't look at that as bad because that creates JOBS right...so long as it creates JOBS its OK and GOOD and YAY all is well...so long as said Rich ELITE employes someone to wipe his arse and another person to brush his teeth he is in the clear and his billions are justified...

Are you so far gone that you actually think the 5% of the wealth the 95% of this country deals in is WHAT caused this country to go down the drain?

I mean it couldn't possibly be the 95% of the wealth the 5% deal in that could be the problem, no way, its those lazy ass (do most of the work) over entitled (werent born with a silver spoon in their mouth) 95% of the American people who caused all this trouble...

Get off it...honestly the Majority of Americans you apparently seem to be pointing the finger at (and its a HUGE majority) can't even come close to being considered spoiled unless you compare them to Somalia...

The spoiled, entitled, instant gratification people you seem to wan't to address make up 5% of this countries population....And they sure as hell aren't here on ATS...they are elsewhere with security surrounding them to make sure people like YOU can't address them...

The instant gratification that ruined this country isn't the one that makes someone purchase a $2500 TV on his credit card...

The instant gratification that ruined this country is the one that makes someone purchase 10 $2500 TV's for their 10 properties in 10 different states...

reply to post by Sly1one


The mentality that the 5% vs. the 95% are two separate beings...is one of the problems. They are american people..just as "we" are american people. I think what is being misunderstood is that when I used the term "YOU" in my beginning post, I meant..."people" everyone...in the UNITED STATES..which would include myself = YOU.

We see it everyday...someone who had millions upon millions,...needs to file bankruptcy, and we think..how in the world could that happen? If I had that much money......etc etc etc

a huge name corporation goes out of business...bankrupt..and we think..if I were CEO..if I were in charge...

We look at our government and we say "If I were in congress...If I were..President...If I were in charge

and yet all those people who we sit back and say..I would have done it differently..all grew up with the same mentality that everyone just about has. Does a 2500 dollar tv make you greedy? make you entitled? your damn right it does. If your sitting there, complaining that maybe, just maybe that month, its gonna be hard to make your bills? then yes..a 2500 dollar tv makes you very greedy, entitled, and financially undisciplined. No one has a "financial" problem. That is the main point of my thread...the title...This country...as a whole does not have a "financial" problem. It has a "discipline" problem. And until that discipline is corrected..there is no way anyone of us can view a presidential candidate with a clear view.

See, thats where you miss the whole point of the thread. Its not about placing any kind of "blame" on to any one entity. The forum is 2012 elections...the topic is about electing our new government officials in 2012. The facts are facts...unless we are disciplined in ourself..there is no way we can sit back and choose the next leader of our nation, without our own hidden agendas. Its about it no longer being about "well..I'm a democrat,..the republicans..blah blah blah..or I'm a republican and the tea partiers...blah blah blah." Its about realizing...the core of the problem..and not anyone person is going to be able to fix it. To really assume and think that one president in office all by his little lonesome can fix corporate america..is not only a huge assumption, but also foolish. It can no longer be about political party, nor about looking out for ourselves. Yes..we are all spoiled...the 5% right along with the 95%...doesn't matter if you weren't born with a silver spoon, nor if you do most of the work..if anything..that should make you look at yourself in the mirror a little bit harder....because a human is a human, and if a 2500 dollar tv is your measurement stick? then yes..there is entitlement as well as greed...and I'm not pointing fingers...like I said the "YOU" = all of us..including me. Its an eye opener to realize...I have nothing to complain about, I have no reason that I should be whining about what I have or don't have. Because in comparison? I have a lot. What the hell am I so whiney and worried about? How can I say, that I'm clear thinking enough to vote on the next presidential candidate..when all I'm doing is placing "blame" for the same things I myself and guilty of? Imagine if President Obama purchased a 2500 dollar tv today..what would you have to say about it? and sure..your answer would probably be..well, he is the leader of our country..right...and our country is in financial ruin...right..so he has no business buying a tv...right! Just as ..if you can't make your bills? you have no right buying a 2500 dollar tv. Just like if your living paycheck to paycheck..just like if you lost your job tomorrow you'd lose everything...etc etc etc

Financial Discipline. That is what we are talking about here. The american people..collectively have lost Financial Discipline. And we cannot detect it in our elected leaders if we cannot find it in ourselves.

Give first, save second...live on the rest. If this is not being followed...then there is no financial discipline. This is the measuring stick..not a 2500 dollar tv. This: Give first, save second, live on the rest.