UFO subculture and its irrational promotion of ET hypothesis

Here is an important message from our colleague, Tomas Scolarici regarding UFO Subculture:

Many ufologists like Dr. Jaques Vallee and the writer of this text (Tomas Scolarici).....(count me in, too*), affirm the obvious: there are no evidences about the extraterrestrial origin of the UFO phenomenon.

UFOs are a rare phenomenon whose nature and origin remains unknown. Contactees, deluded mystics, pseudo-scientists and professional charlatans, again and again give us class B science fiction as a fact.

The messages of the self proclaimed contactees are just a blend of New Age and pseudo-psychological rhetoric with no value at all. The ET hypothesis is basically irrational and doesn’t resist any logical test. Nothing valuable comes from these “aliens” at all.

Presumably these cosmic civilizations came to our planet to play hide and seek and talk some theosophical nonsense.

Of course we must recognize that the whole nonsensical and old-fashioned ET hypothesis gives some humans the real possibility of making a living selling books, lectures and recycled “wisdom”.

Rational ufologists consider the UFO phenomenon as it presents to our perception, and more important, analyze the so called UFO subculture and its metaphors.

The UFO subculture teaches us nothing about extraterrestrial life, but a lot about us, human beings.

ufoculture.blogspot.com...


P.S.

This is why, in order to expand our horizon in the study of UFO subculture, once in a while we need to take a look at sites such as the following:

badufos.blogspot.com...





*Norio Hayakawa
noriohayakawa2012.blogspot.com...

So.........is this a rant?

Seem to be promoting these other websites,


Im all for skepticism but theres a way to do it, and bashing believers isnt the way

Another "Mind Police" failure.
Dude, beeing skeptic does not, I repeat, DOES NOT EQUAL denying everything.

reply to post by Fastriver

Here is an important message from our colleague, Tomas Scolarici regarding UFO Subculture:

That would depend on your definition of important .
Smells like an advert to me

Originally posted by Fastriver
Here is an important message from our colleague, Tomas Scolarici regarding UFO Subculture:

...Presumably these cosmic civilizations came to our planet to play hide and seek and talk some theosophical nonsense....

Classic line. I haven't checked out the links yet, so I don't know where he is ultimately going, but that statement alone should give a person pause for reflection at the very least.

I know I've wasted money on books that haven't left me anymore--maybe even less--enlightened. To me, the evidence suggests either some form of the interdimensional hypothesis or a shared sociological subconscious aberration.

The E.T. hypothesis coming in a distant 3rd.

If UFO's (the real ones) aren't controlled by ET intelligence, then what could possibly be the explanation?

Break away civilization?
Time travelers?
Angels?

reply to post by Fastriver


As an abductee that was already familiar with hypnosis, I absolutely know that the beginning and ending of my time-loss experience in 1964 were the earmarks of mind control. --Now, keep in mind that this and these cited authors are confusing hypnosis with mind control.

Hypnosis is usually assumed to be that the subject willingly "gives" their physical and emotional control to an outside party, and usually that party is in direct, physical contact with the subject.

Mind control need not have the permission of the subject. The subject's conscious mind is totally bypassed in that the subject may directly hear the words of another within their own mind. And the controller--not hypnotist--need not be physically present.

Acknowledged mind control of the ETs of select individuals is the most frightening aspect of contact. Weapons enough to destroy our planet in an eye-blink--forget it, we can understand and accept that concept because it is only an extreme continuation of what we can do ourselves. But mind control, actual mind control? Not even God is supposed to have that power. Yet they do, and have exhibited it thousands of times when they abduct people and even sometimes when people are not quite sure what happened to them when they apparently only witnessed a UFO.

So forget super mechanical technology that is not where the gulf lays between humans and ETs. Those large brains are enabled.beyond the worst fears of many humans...and especially those in governments that are not quite up to being up-front and honest about their dealings with anybody.

Dude, you've lifted this word for word from Norio Hayakawa's blog. At least use the quote tags and add your own thoughts.

FYI for readers, the (QUOTE) section in the OP is actually Hayakawa quoting Tomas Scolarici, not the OP quoting him.

Regarding the OP however, as the above poster pointed out it's a question of control. Do these UFOlogists believe that any sightings are actually intelligently controlled craft? Are these craft only top secret military craft? Not such an irrational thing to believe, but is it so irrational to believe that some of these sightings are intelligently controlled craft not belonging to any government on this earth?

So what's left? The beings controlling these craft are either extraterrestrial or extradimensional. I don't see either explanation as any more or less rational than they other. And certainly in terms of our own perspective it doesn't really matter, either way they're alien (in the most basic 'not from here' sense of the word)

reply to post by Fastriver


Here's my problem with these bald assertions: there IS NO ET hypothesis. In order for there to be a real ET hypothesis that we can test against the available evidence (low quality as it is), we have to know what we are talking about with respect to ETs. However, I think I can argue that we do not. At all.

I've read Vallee's arguments against this strawman, and do not find them persuasive, simply because Vallee himself has no idea what the nature, motivations, internal conflicts, technology, threats and needs a highly advanced ET civilization would have. We have no idea what attitude "they" would have toward us: benevolent, indifferent, hostile, or more likely something we haven't thought of. We also do not know anything about the lifecycle of such civilizations, including whether there is a major decline phase that is difficult to avoid. Terrestrial analogies seem likely to fail and mislead.

And that would only be one such civilization - we don't know how many there are or if there are more than 1, the extent to which they may interact.

I think the article more specifically states not to follow everyone's lead... as it has been done for at least 70 years. Researching for yourself and coming to your own conclusion, your own beliefs.. of course sharing it with everyone with or without profit, this Is the Human Credibility Factor.. but you've just got to educate yourself all the time, because this OP author, his friends and colleagues aren't going to help you anymore than the Presidents do.

Considering the size of our universe, the idea that life may be out there somewhere is a reasonable one. However, I see no convincing evidence that any of them have ever been here, although a few alleged cases may point to the possibility.

But for me, most sightings, abductees, contactees, etc. just sound to me like medieval people claiming to see angels and demons, but in modern sci-fi and pseudoscientific garb. Some of it may be just attention seeking, or people out to make money off the gullible, but I also feel that modern UFOlogy is a symptom of a society that has become too materialistic, and people are desperate to find some sense of meaning in the world.

Religion has failed in this respect for most modern people, so they jump on the UFO bandwagon and hope that the truth is "out there", and will be brought to them by their space-faring prophets.

All a little sad really.

The sad thing is, the few legitimate cases will never be solved, because everybody is so busy trying to attach their personal agenda to everything, that real "truth" is a pipe dream. 'Truth' to most people who are interested in UFOs, (or interested in any conspiracy for that matter) is not actual truth... but just an outcome they personally prefer. So if somebody prefers the truth to be that the whole planet is crawling with aliens, then that's the truth in their mind. And then anything remotely resembling a chance to promote that "truth" is manipulated and deformed into some ridiculous tool to promote their agenda. Look at Roswell... I think there's about a dozen alleged crash sites at this point. That event has been so warped and twisted over the years, that it's virtually impossible to get any real facts at all now. Even if it actually WAS aliens, you'd never be able to tell, with all the extra nonsense people have added in.

The TX Lundrum case has been one of my favorites. Mainly because I think it's one of the few events that actually had something unique happen, and there might actually be a legit conspiracy. There's also some decent evidence, including an actual transcript of their recollection of the event. I've done some research and talked with a few people. I think I have a pretty good understanding of how the event took place. The UFO Hunters show was filled with bad info btw. But the most interesting thing was that the people involved actually flat out stated that they DID NOT think it was anything to do with aliens. In fact, the notion of that annoyed them. Did this stop all the UFO people from making it about aliens? Of course not. They bent over backwards to turn the whole thing into a joke, as usual. Any info I've put forward in the past that I found, was basically ignored by any of the pro alien people. Why? Well, because if aliens aren't involved, and they couldn't turn it into something about aliens, then they couldn't care less what really happened.

And that's why individual, legitimate UFO mysteries will never be solved.

reply to post by dpd11


That's why instead of seeking truth I seek knowledge; believing something and actually knowing something are two different things.

Mind you, the Rendlesham Forest incident has always fascinated me.

reply to post by Fastriver


Sorry, but this thread gets a

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by Fastriver

 

Sorry, but this thread gets a

and your post gets you a

and a shiney star

Originally posted by dpd11
The sad thing is, the few legitimate cases will never be solved, because everybody is so busy trying to attach their personal agenda to everything, that real "truth" is a pipe dream. 'Truth' to most people who are interested in UFOs, (or interested in any conspiracy for that matter) is not actual truth...

Fortunately there are some good researchers too.

Originally posted by dpd11
Look at Roswell... I think there's about a dozen alleged crash sites at this point. That event has been so warped and twisted over the years, that it's virtually impossible to get any real facts at all now. Even if it actually WAS aliens, you'd never be able to tell, with all the extra nonsense people have added in.

There are a few researchers, including myself and A51Watcher, who have looked at this problem from a different angle. There will probably be a new thread to follow soon, other commitments allowing.

Maybe you should look at this thread too. The Day Before Roswell

Originally posted by dpd11
The TX Lundrum case has been one of my favorites.
*snip*
the most interesting thing was that the people involved actually flat out stated that they DID NOT think it was anything to do with aliens. In fact, the notion of that annoyed them. Did this stop all the UFO people from making it about aliens? Of course not.

Despite it being incredibly annoying, you just have to live with the fact that there are many people who just don't have the training or the intellect to look at data that disappoints them. Some of the BS might even be put out to deliberately confuse. I say don't give up doing honest research and make sure you share what you find (if you have something then a new thread would be cool). That way other researchers can start where you left off rather than waste resources going over old ground.

Originally posted by dpd11
And that's why individual, legitimate UFO mysteries will never be solved.

Although it is a nightmare to research UFOs and alike due to all the nonsense, I hope that you are wrong. Defeatist attitudes like that though are self fulfilling. If we accept they will never be solved and don't do any decent research then clearly they won't be solved.

I'm not trying to bash you here. I sincerely hope that you don't just walk away from looking at the problem - providing you keep a genuinely open mind. I admit I have come close to walking away from ATS myself but decided that there is some good stuff here if you can put up with the noise.

reply to post by Fastriver

The messages of the self proclaimed contactees are just a blend of New Age and pseudo-psychological rhetoric with no value at all. The ET hypothesis is basically irrational and doesn’t resist any logical test. Nothing valuable comes from these “aliens” at all.

Presumably these cosmic civilizations came to our planet to play hide and seek and talk some theosophical nonsense.

Source: ufoculture.blogspot.com...

Regarding this aspect of so called ET activity, a lot of this was heavily influenced by what look like mind control programs. I have covered this in a thread previously and if any of you have any important information regarding the information disclosed there then please add it to the thread. I would truly appreciate any new information that I am not aware of.

MK-ULTRA, COINTELPRO and the CIA - Sinister Mind Control and New Age Spirituality