Blood On My Shirt - Where Are the Real Men At?

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Oh I have seen my share of fights that's for sure, but they were between men and usually kids over some stupid #, and hot heads. And in those situations if its just something that they got to get off there chest I think it is just better to let them at it. But only as long as its not to serious and no weapons are involved. In fact I usually tell them that there is a place for such things and its called your local boxing gym or martial arts gym. So don't waste your breath.

But I have never seen an abuse type of fight break out on the street like you describe op, the closest I have seen to it was one time a man and a woman were arguing in a car and screaming, and the guy pulled over and told the woman to get out, and when she did, he took off. He literally left tire marks on the ground. And in that it is just mostly relationship problem's and such.

But in such situations you never really know what spurred them on, and assuming it is all like it looks like is almost always the wrong thing to assume, but lets say they all have there "reasons" and "justifications". And it boggles my mind why anybody would beat there daughter, but whatever the reason, it is pointless and stupid. But I understand why your upset op, but such is the nature of the beast. All you can do is control it or it will control you, but most times people just need to chill, or go for a walk, lest they end up doing stupid #.

But ya you did the right thing and I would of done much worse to the guy then break a bottle on his head. And some people the only thing they understand is a swift kick to the head, and even then they probably wont get it.

You don't hit a woman for any reason.

Two quotes from you:

Originally posted by Sternblut
There is nothing left. American and UK empire can only be rebuilt after they are destroyed. There is too much decay to try and repair it.

And then:

Originally posted by Sternblut
Furthermore, woman are being turned into men mentally, and men are turning into f@ggots galore.

So. You rage about the decline of our western civilization, then in the next breathe declare many men to be "f@ggots".

Now, im not gay. But i would suggest that a "f@ggot", especially the sensitive ones you seem to hate would rarely if ever have turned violent in this manner against their mate.

And by labelling the meeker men in our society as "f@ggots" i think you are a part of the decline of our civilization. Intolerance is what drives people apart and builds walls. Look in the mirror please.

And to address the first point, i think as far as violence towards women goes, we are actually much farther ahead than we were in the 40's or 50's, when household violence was a common thing and rarely if ever reported or prosecuted. We are actually leaps and bounds ahead of where we used to be on many issues of this type.

Ps. And dont even get me started on your issue of less children being born to white families, thereby reducing a "sensible race". Your blatant rascism is showing.

reply to post by redCrow40


What if Nancy Pelosi was trying to kiss you?

Gotta love what if scenarios.

Originally posted by redCrow40
You don't hit a woman for any reason.

What if you are another woman in a pro boxing match?

Society has changed since the days of chivalry when men were considered protectors.

Now we are laughing stocks - portrayed in the media as bumbling fools unable to turn on a washing machine in a washing powder advert. Paraded in swimming trunks on daytime tv for women's titillation, when there would be outrage if the roles were reversed. When even a great, loving dad has the chips stacked against him in a custody battle for children.

The whole idea of masculinity has changed. Women work now as the norm - so men are no longer operating in that role as provider and protector. That is not how we see ourselves any more.

So perhaps after chipping away at the whole idea of masculinity, women are a little unrealistic to expect us to intervene when they suddenly realise that the genders aren't in fact completely equal and that they are out of their depth? Why would the average man put himself at risk in these circumstances?

reply to post by Millions


If you think the way to prove your a man is by fighting with someone you have alot to learn.

Acting like John Wayne does not make you a man.

Originally posted by redCrow40
You don't hit a woman for any reason.

I would think if a woman killed my children, think Susan Smith, i would be quite justified in hitting her.

Ps. i call bullsh1t on this story too. If this really did happen, expect a visit from the police soon. Sadly, you will be charged with assault for defending this poor lady. And sadly, she will be beaten even worse when she gets home.

I have been there, and have stepped in before, and watched as people looked the other way and ignored it. Either people are afraid of lawsuits, afraid of injury, or just don't care, I don't understand.

For the bottle across the jaw? That was a very effective means to end a confrontation. When entering a fight with an unknown person, who may have had a knife, mace, taser or gun if things got dicey, you use maximum force to stop them instantly, especially when they have already bloodied and injured others. Stopping him was the correct thing to do, as was the means you used to do so. While fighting to defend, you are placing yourself in their shoes willing to take what they are unable to take. Defending children and women, or elderly against an aggressor is always the right thing to do. Just never take a chance, take them down and out so they don't get up or bring a weapon to the fight.

Saddening story indeed.
maybe it is just how i was raised, but if a man ever strikes a woman he should be beaten twice as hard.
we are supposed to protect females, and children
hearing this makes me very angry
it makes me proud to say that if i saw this happen, i would have done the same thing you did.
KUDOS to YOU
for standing up for those women and that poor girl
maybe the dad will realize his errors (probably not)
but, good job S&F

Originally posted by Th0r

Originally posted by Doc Gator
I couldn't disagree more. The point is that it is one less beating the child will have to take.

It's the same as saying that we shouldn't send food to starving people today because they might not be able to get food tomorrow and it may cause harm by giving them false hope.

You are missing the point, it may be one less at that instance, but people who beat on children feed off violence, who is to say this newly scared man will not beat his kid/family twice as hard and twice as much from this point on. It's all well and good to assume you saved someone from a beating. but rarely does anyone think or consider the ripple effects of such actions.

And it's not the same and not sending food to starving people, that is absurd.

Sorry I'm coming in late with a response. My question to you is by not stopping the beating in public, couldn't you be sending the attacker the message that it is ok to beat whom ever he wants to in public? If it is ok to beat his daughter in public, then there is no problem beating her in private. Why not beat her, and her mother even harder in private as long as they don't die. By doing nothing, you can advocate even more violence.

Maybe because he beat his daughter, wife, or someone else before in public where no one stepped in, that is why he started beating his daughter in public again. This time someone stepped in, he was stopped, and now is in jail. This is probablly the best way to stop the abuse of his daughter, and for the time being his wife unless she had the sense to leave him.

The reason I say that, is because child services will now step in. They will take his daughter away from him, so he will no longer be able to beat her. He may get supervised visits after he is out of jail. This is one of the few times I believe child services should take the child away, and give custody to the mother if she is no longer living with him, or other relative. If necessary, in a foster home.

Yes, in this instance it would stop him from beating his daughter. I'm glad to hear the girl is safe. If she ever loved her father, there will be a part of her that always will. From the little bit of conversation that has been revealed, it sounded like she was looking for acceptance or a little kindness from her dad. I have a sad feeling that what her father said to her will have much more of an impact on her than the beating she took. Now I pray she gets the emotional help she needs. Things like that just don't go away.

reply to post by Rosha


after reading your post, i just had to post this.

This is one of the most important & most controversial topics i have seen on ATS or anywhere for that matter! This one topic ties into many others in so many ways and IMO this problem is one of demoralization and insecurity. There's no other way for me to think of this other then we have been demoralized by idealogical subversion. Through the promotion of loose and immoral behavior from most media outlets and fictional stories but this is all part of another thread or maybe we should propose a subject matter to post too!
As for doing the right thing, I believe it's important to step in but we have to choose when and how & not loose our thought processes! Was it a good idea to hit him with a bottle? probably not. Whether he deserves it or not does'nt matter all that does is the what ifs, what if you cut him and possibly killed him what would happen to you and your good intentions then? Do you go to jail and if so for how long? I personally know someone who that happened too, he cut some kid accross the neck because he hit him with a beer bottle and had to pay with his freedom. A better way to handle this type of situation would be to call his attention to you but for you to stay at a distance this way if he charges you at least you can claim self defense if god forbid anything should happen. I had pretty much the same thing happen to me recently but i did'nt get into the fight but sort of talked my way out of it. There isnt any respect from these kids today cause i was at least twice his age and he was ready to jump on me in a second and i'm sure his friend would have as well as they were both moving quickly towards me. I was able to get out of it with nothing but some injury to my pride with him cursing at my little yorkie as well as myself! the point is i was not the only man there, must have been about 10 guys standing there most of them younger then me. I have read some of the responses to these post and I see the blame going to the 4% of the population that are sociopaths but thats like blaming the illegal aliens for all the job problems we have. Though i'm sure they add to the situation as do the illegals! I don't believe that by having a witch hunt we can solve this because the problem is with more then just 1 out of every 22 of us. there is a problem with the majority of people today and i believe the underlying cause is in the material reward system which rewards bad behevior, this systemic problem is tied to all aspects of life! how can we feel good about ourselves if we have to be evil to be rewarded? As far as being rewarded for doing the right thing, you can forget that cause i never recieved a thankyou from the girl who was getting her ass beat. Good guys finish last is an understatement. While we have all come a long way technologically but socially we have a long way to go but in the past 30 years we've been on a journey backwards, though i am optimistic because i believe we are coming to the point at which we will have to evolve or regress.We need to make a stand for standards, morals and ethics! Whether we go forward or backward is up to us all and this is the most important issue facing the world today!

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


If it was me, It would of ended a lot worse for the guy.
I DO NOT like women beaters, men who beat women are extreme cowards who need an extreme beat down.
You should of torn that man to pieces, forgot any promise you made you yourself, that man deserved WORSE.
oh man I hate that s*%$ so much it disgusts me beyond measure.

I'm glad you did what you did, thank you.

Thank you for your post. I applaud you and think you did the right thing. S&F

I have lived in the same condo for 15 years. I have a small deck that looks out onto a grassy park area. Its not much, but I like to sit outside in the evenings and work crossword puzzles. I have seen and heard many things while sitting out there. Parties, fights, you name it. One evening a couple months back, a teenage girl came tearing through the park screaming for help. Right on her heels was a man in his fifties. I did not know these people. My instant reaction was to yell stop and I did so many times while reaching for the phone to call 911. The girl ran up to me and stayed on my patio while we waited for the police to arrive. I warned the man that was chasing her not to step a foot on my property. The whole time this scene is unfolding, my neighbors are coming and going and not really paying attention to all the sreaming and yelling. I was in disbelief that no one, not one neighbor chimed in.

I intially thought the man was the girls father. However, turns out he lived in the complex next to mine. He had watched as she and her boyfriend threw lawn chairs over the fence into the spa area so they could access the spa. These two teens did not live in the complex and were trespassing. The man said that he had been waiting to catch them in the act and he finally did. Even though she was in the wrong, I asked him what he thought he was going to do if he caught up to her? He said he would hold her until the police arrived. This was wrong on so many levels. Did he not see the problem with chasing a sreaming girl through the neigborhood?

The police finally arrived, the man did not press charges, the teens were given a stern warning, and the man was given an even sterner warning about his way of handling the trespassers. It did not matter to me that the teens were actually the whole problem here, I would have still reacted in the same manner had I known. That man scared me!

I would not hesitate to come to the aid of another human being if they are in danger or being abused. Clearly one has to be careful, but I do hope that someone would help me if I needed it.

BTW - I would also interfere if it were an animal being abused. I am the one that left a sticky note on your car warning you not to leave your doggy in the car while you shopped and then I called the police.

Peace and Love.

Argh I hate hearing stories like this, so amazingly sad but equally aggravating!

Had a similar situation once but much less violent.

This particular club is sometimes attended by large groups of Chinese, generally awesome, wonderful partygoers like everyone else, however sometimes they can get a bit 'tussly'; nothing too major but just a little pushy with their ladyfriends. Slightly hard grab of arm, bit of pulling and very petty shoving, looks like general rather heated, drunken 'someone is being unreasonable' handbag throwing crap. Could be cultural? Not sure. I've been in hospo for 7 years and I've never seen a local white/black/brown/orange/green guy do more than yelling at his girl. Never pushing or laying a hand. I'd say this is because they know that the guys around them will kick their ass if they act that way in public in New Zealand. That's the only reason I'm making a racial distinction in this case.

This time it was a little different.
I'm sitting in a car with a ladyfriend. We're talking quietly and just having a good chillax from the bustle of the club. Guy hanging out with a friend starts arguing with his girl, on the pavement infront of us. Escalates. Starts pushing his ladyfriend a bit so I start watching intently. She's starting to cry plus avoid him and he's starting to push a bit harder, I'm moving my hand in doorlatch just in case, when my ladyfriend says 'I think we'd better stop this'. As per OP, a woman definately has a quicker protective instinct than I!
As we are beginning to exit the car, 'pushy guy' pushes his girl harder, she nearly falls over, then a second push and she lands on the concrete, whacking her head on a glass shopfront. We both yell "OI!". I'm now majorly pissed off and will do whatever I can to prevent a breach of the peace in this manner. I'm rockin' a singlet, over 6'1", millitary style haircut and have been bodybuilding for five years plus. Pushy guys' mate spots trouble coming, scoots over to placate me so he won't have to potentially scrape his mate off the pavement. Pushy has stopped pushing, not feeling like such a big man anymore with the added attention. Friend is all "don't worry it's not as bad as it looks, it's all good... blah blah" (tried to sound like it's commonplace!). Whilst shooting an icy stare at 'pushy guy', whom is looking more and more worried by the minute, I looked his friend in the eye and stated "your friend may be having problems with his ladyfriend, but if you don't stop it, I will and he (I do the techno viking point at pushy) sure as hell doesn't want me being his problem".
Pushy guy has backed off his girl and they dawdle back towards the club, with pushy and his girl keeping quite some distance. Bouncers are watching them too. I hope he learnt his lesson that this crap is not tolerated in this day and age. That said, I havn't seen any tussles since!

On that note, excellent work OP, you should be extremely proud for stepping in to defuse such a volatile situation. Do not be ashamed of harming another being, in some situations violence is the only answer to protect the livelyhood of an innocent party. That said, in any fight, both sides loose, however the balance is what swung in your favour and you should hold your chin up and keep it there. My situation was easy, yours sounded like a challenge from hell.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by Millions

 

If you think the way to prove your a man is by fighting with someone you have alot to learn.

Acting like John Wayne does not make you a man.

True that but a man does need to stand up for his self as well as his ideals, convictions and ethics. I also believe any man worth his moral fiber will stand against any oppressor that's beating on someone weaker like a child or a woman. Men have been stripped of their dignity, ideals, ethics as well as roles of provider and protector! mostly through state, federal and judicial process. It's no wonder why so many are afraid for one reason or another to stand up against oppression by either the individual or by a minority (state,federal,corporate,media,ETC heirarchy)
Someday we will all understand what it is to be a man but i believe that's some time away! For now we need to learn everything we can about us and those around us in the real world.

"You don't have to be a great man, just be a man". Zefram Cochrane - Star Trek - first contact

they were unable to step up because the miniskirt that came with there 62 calorie light beer was constricting there movements.

You done good by stopping physical violence.
Don't drive yourself crazy wondering why no one else would.There are too many reasons under the sun.
Just because it seems your standing alone today doesn't mean there is no hope.

Originally posted by Aeons
...
I've helped stop a big juice monkey beating on his girlfriend, and she did the same thing. She physically defended her boyfriend because people were pulling him off of punching her. He was easily 240 and over six feet, and clearly on steroids. She was about 5'5 and about 120 pounds.

A couple of those instances will blow a person's mind.

This is one of the main reasons why you see many men not getting in this kind of situation, because it can blow up in their faces.

Some men don't help because they don't care, but many don't help because they fear the very real possibility that trying to help will get them in trouble, and possibly land them in prison with a hefty fee they will also have to pay.

Society is so backward these days that if a man steps in to help a woman who is gettting beat up by her boyfriend, he can be charged because most often the woman will back her boyfriend.

Some women do it out of fear, others do it due to a syndrome similar to Stockholm Syndrome, wherein nomatter how bad their boyfriends or husbands treat them, a lot of women still will back their boyfriends or husbands to their death.

The same thing happens when a lot of people see someone on the floor, maybe unconcious, maybe dead, and they do nothing to help them, and people do this because society has allowed lawsuits to occur against people who had good intentions and were trying to help someone else.

Society, and lawyers are also more willing to charge men, than women if they step in to try to help someone, although there are exceptions.

The same thing is happening with civilians defending themselves against criminals... In today's "civilized societies" criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens do, and you can land in jail for beating up, or killing a criminal who was trying to rob you, or kill your family or was trying to kill you...

So next time you see see something like that happening, and you see the few men who are around not helping to stop the altercation, blame society in general and "progress".