Unexplained light in clouds - HAARP?? or something else

Sorry to get off on a tangent everyone, let's get off the proving HAARP and more to the evaluation of the phenomenon

Originally posted by KSprepared
Sorry to get off on a tangent everyone, let's get off the proving HAARP and more to the evaluation of the phenomenon

Why bring a patent into play? If you don't even think this is about HAARP?

Honestly, nothing here is unexplainable, what more do you want from this thread?

Originally posted by KSprepared
This is a patent for an artificial ionosphere manipulated by frequency and atmospheric heating.

Right, now where is a mirror like that in existence?

Originally posted by KSprepared
I don't care if you want to equate it with HAARP or not. Maybe your civilian use of HAARP is harmless or whatever, but it has been adopted by the military for long range recon and weather manipulation.

No it hasn't, it doesn't even put out enough power to be used as a weapon (not that it could even be used as a weapon). It's use is purely for research, heck, you can even see when it is active, or not on HAARP's website. Hint: It's active only a few times per month.

Originally posted by KSprepared
I didn't say this was harmful, you are implying that I am, I am simply asking if what we are seeing is manipulation of the atmosphere for peaceful, military, or whatever purposes, or natural. I am just trying to get opinions here, not get trolled. So if you don't want to be part of the conversation and all of your posts are going to say basically the same thing, then you are free to leave the thread at any time.

Basically here is what it comes down to. None of this is related in any way to HAARP. Tell me, how do they aim a stationary array of antennas, again?

Originally posted by KSprepared
This is a patent for an artificial ionosphere. Which program has been testing frequencies bouncing around in the ionosphere? HAARP has. I feel it is safe to say this is at least tangentally affiliated with HAARP.

Well, no. There is no bouncing at all. The electromagnetic waves are absorbed by the ionosphere, heating it gently. Did you read my thread on putting HAARP into perspective?

Originally posted by KSprepared
And I have read up on HAARP extensively. HERE is a blog that will open your eyes to the utilization of HAARP: www.dutchsinse.com...]

Ohhhhh. Dutchsinse, that explains a lot. Everything dutchsinse says is patently false. HAARP rings? Lol, no dear, that's just how weather radar works (in circles). Seriously, read some impartial sources. HAARP

Originally posted by KSprepared
reply to post by adeclerk

 

And I have read up on HAARP extensively. HERE is a blog that will open your eyes to the utilization of HAARP: www.dutchsinse.com...

And here is an article that tells you everything you need to know about DS's actual value as a source:

Breaking news - volcano is not errupting!

Originally posted by KSprepared
Sorry to get off on a tangent everyone, let's get off the proving HAARP and more to the evaluation of the phenomenon

Indeed.

but what is there to "evaluate"?

Some YT videos.

And how well equipped are we to "evaluate" them? Do we know the date and time? Where was the sun in relation to the camera? What were the atmospheric conditions? What was the whole cloud formation like?

The facts are we are not equipped to do more than speculate.

Personally I find rational specultion quite interesting - but the lines that has been started her e- that the "things" are artificial, etc., has nothing to back it up. Perhaps ther is something nefarious involved - but the unsupported assertions of an anonymous internet poster on a forum devoted to the weird & wacky isn't actually evidence of what it is.

Personally I accept that there are many more things in the universe than I will ever understand - and at the moment this is one of them. And I see no need to invent fantastical stories to fill in that gap in my knowledge - I do not NEED to know what has caused the little glitches.

And if someone thinks they do know what caused them I will evaluate the evidence they provide and react according to my assessment of that evidence.

In the meantime I just file them under "unknown", and leave it at that.

I don't even know why I bring threads to ATS anymore, I always feel uncomfortable after I do with so many people just coming in attack,attack,attack, trash trash trash. I hate even bringing up a discussion here. If people don't like the thread, why can they not just keep their eyes out of it? If they don't want to watch a video - don't watch it. But some topics it just seems like a full on frontal assault from the first post. I'm out, I'm going to bed. This thread has died, thanks you trolls.

Originally posted by KSprepared
I don't even know why I bring threads to ATS anymore, I always feel uncomfortable after I do with so many people just coming in attack,attack,attack, trash trash trash. I hate even bringing up a discussion here. If people don't like the thread, why can they not just keep their eyes out of it? If they don't want to watch a video - don't watch it. But some topics it just seems like a full on frontal assault from the first post. I'm out, I'm going to bed. This thread has died, thanks you trolls.

edit on 16-8-2011 by KSprepared because: (no reason given)

That's how a forum works. If you're going to come in here establishing a causal relationship between HAARP and [insert something else here], you're going to get criticized for being ignorant of the basic facets of science.

Or do you prefer a Hitleresque forum with no dissent? Head on over to Rush Limbaugh's, if that's what you're into.

Originally posted by adeclerk
That's how a forum works. If you're going to come in here establishing a causal relationship between HAARP and [insert something else here], you're going to get criticized for being ignorant of the basic facets of science.

Or do you prefer a Hitleresque forum with no dissent? Head on over to Rush Limbaugh's, if that's what you're into.

Some members should examine this quote and reflect upon it.

Be nice. We're all here to better understand the various obvious and hidden influences on our often stressful world. Some members will have been researching these topics longer than others. Calling such beginning
members "n-0-0-b", "n-e-w-b-i-e", or other derogatory names just because they're beginning their journey to enlightenment is generally frowned upon. (I'm so much against this vile practice I've applied a censor for the words, n-0-0-b = n00b)

Here are some general guidelines:

1) Be polite. Above all, we take pride in the fact that AboveTopSecret.com is renowned as a destination for civil and polite discussion of nearly anything. Treat your fellow ATS members with respect, and your time here will be rewarding.

General ATS discussion etiquette

reply to post by adeclerk

That's how a forum works. If you're going to come in here establishing a causal relationship between HAARP and [insert something else here], you're going to get criticized for being ignorant of the basic facets of science.

I present no casual relationship.
www.europarl.europa.eu...//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A4-1999-0005+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

There are many people who feel HAARP is being used in just the way I have described. Here is an excerpt from the piece:

HAARP - a weapons system which disrupts the climate On 5 February 1998 Parliament's Subcommittee on Security and Disarmament held a hearing the subject of which included HAARP. NATO and the US had been invited to send representatives, but chose not to do so. The Committee regrets the failure of the USA to send a representative to answer questions, or to use the opportunity to comment on the material submitted.(21) HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project) is run jointly by the US Air Force and Navy, in conjunction with the Geophysical Institute of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks. Similar experiments are also being conducted in Norway, probably in the Antarctic, as well as in the former Soviet Union.(22) HAARP is a research project using a ground based apparatus, an array of antennae each powered by its own transmitter, to heat up portions of ionosphere with powerful radio beams.(23) The energy generated heats up parts of the ionosphere; this results in holes in the ionosphere and produces artificial 'lenses'. HAARP can be used for many purposes. Enormous quantities of energy can be controlled by manipulating the electrical characteristics of the atmosphere. If used as a military weapon this can have a devastating impact on an enemy. HAARP can deliver millions of times more energy to a given area than any other conventional transmitter. The energy can also be aimed at a moving target which should constitute a potential anti-missile system. The project would also allow better communications with submarines and manipulation of global weather patterns, but it is also possible to do the reverse, to disrupt communications. By manipulating the ionosphere one could block global communications while transmitting one's own. Another application is earth-penetrating, tomography, x-raying the earth several kilometres deep, to detect oil and gas fields, or underground military facilities. Over-the-horizon radar is another application, looking round the curvature of the earth for in-coming objects. From the 1950s the USA conducted explosions of nuclear material in the Van Allen Belts(24) to investigate the effect of the electro-magnetic pulse generated by nuclear weapon explosions at these heights on radio communications and the operation of radar. This created new magnetic radiation belts which covered nearly the whole earth. The electrons travelled along magnetic lines of force and created an artificial Aurora Borealis above the North Pole. These military tests are liable to disrupt the Van Allen belt for a long period. The earth's magnetic field could be disrupted over large areas, which would obstruct radio communications. According to US scientists it could take hundreds of years for the Van Allen belt to return to normal. HAARP could result in changes in weather patterns. It could also influence whole ecosystems, especially in the sensitive Antarctic regions. Another damaging consequence of HAARP is the occurrence of holes in the ionosphere caused by the powerful radio beams. The ionosphere protects us from incoming cosmic radiation. The hope is that the holes will fill again, but our experience of change in the ozone layer points in the other direction. This means substantial holes in the ionosphere that protects us. With its far-reaching impact on the environment HAARP is a matter of global concern and we have to ask whether its advantages really outweigh the risks. The environmental impact and the ethical aspect must be closely examined before any further research and testing takes place. HAARP is a project of which the public is almost completely unaware, and this needs to be remedied. HAARP has links with 50 years of intensive space research for military purposes, including the Star Wars project, to control the upper atmosphere and communications. This kind of research has to be regarded as a serious threat to the environment, with an incalculable impact on human life. Even now nobody knows what impact HAARP may have. We have to beat down the wall of secrecy around military research, and set up the right to openness and democratic scrutiny of military research projects, and parliamentary control. A series of international treaties and conventions (the Convention on the prohibition of military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques, the Antarctic Treaty, the Treaty on principles governing the activities of states in the exploration and use of outer space including the moon and other celestial bodies, and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea) casts considerable doubt on HAARP on legal as well as humanitarian and political grounds. The Antarctic Treaty lays down that the Antarctic may be used exclusively for peaceful purposes.(25) This would mean that HAARP is a breach of international law. All the implications of the new weapons systems should be examined by independent international bodies. Further international agreements should be sought to protect the environment from unnecessary destruction in war.

I do not come here uninformed as you suggest, but I surmise as more informed than you would like.

reply to post by adeclerk

Seriously, read some impartial sources. HAARP

Originally posted by KSprepared

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

Do you think DARPA has let us fall behind our enemies a second time?

I wouldn't take what a secretary says to heart, a little research on the internet would show you that this is fearmongering, and by all means impossible.

Originally posted by KSprepared

BAE has described the rationale for expansion in the US; "[it] is by far the largest defence market with spend running close to twice that of the Western European nations combined. Importantly, US investment in research and development is significantly higher than in Western Europe."

its sales to the (American) Department of Defense have surpassed those of its parent to the (British) Ministry of Defence. BAE Systems is now by far the largest foreign investor in the US defence industry. With the political and military ties that exist between the US and the UK, BAE Systems has faced little opposition to acquisitions of important US defence contractors.

The company's Electronics, Intelligence & Support business group provides communication, electronic identification, navigation and guidance systems, network-centric warfare solutions and support services. Such products include the Electronic warfare systems for the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II fighters, missile defence systems, countermeasures for both military and commercial aircraft and the HybriDrive propulsion system.[15]

This companies aquisitions tells you a story of exactly what kind of company is being used to build the HAARP facility.

It may have started out as an innocent civi project, but it has grown to so much more:

Well, it started like this. An American oil company owned vast amounts of land in Alaska. In order to get the government to contract use of this land, they proposed building a research facility that would use natural gas from the reserves under the land to power it. So a lobby group went to washington, claiming all kinds of crazy uses for HAARP, but it was all just a gimmick to get it funded so that the oil company could meter the natural gas that was powering the facility (they claimed it could cause earthquakes, alter climate, shoot down missiles, etc). Nothing in HAARPs facility is secret, you can read all about it on their website.

If anything I said here is inaccurate, I implore you to correct me.

Its really too bad this thread is being derailed by some because the phenomenon in one of the video's is clearly worth some rational speculation.

If rational speculation bothers you then don't bother posting in this thread. This site exists to speculate and debate unexplained phenomenon and members should feel free to do so without being attacked for it.

Based on these descriptions I do think upper-atmospheric lightning is a good suspect.

Sprites are large-scale electrical discharges which occur high above a thunderstorm cloud, or cumulonimbus, giving rise to a quite varied range of visual shapes. They are triggered by the discharges of positive lightning between the thundercloud and the ground. The phenomena were named after the mischievous sprite (air spirit) Puck in William Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream[original research?]. They normally are colored reddish-orange or greenish-blue, with hanging tendrils below and arcing branches above. They can also be preceded by a reddish halo. They often occur in clusters, lying 50 miles (80 km) to 90 miles (140 km) above the Earth's surface. Sprites were first photographed on July 6, 1989 by scientists from the University of Minnesota and have since been witnessed tens of thousands of times. Sprites have been held responsible for otherwise unexplained accidents involving high altitude vehicular operations above thunderstorms.

Blue jets differ from sprites in that they project from the top of the cumulonimbus above a thunderstorm, typically in a narrow cone, to the lowest levels of the ionosphere 40 to 50 km (25 to 30 miles) above the earth. In addition, whereas red sprites tend to be associated with significant lightning strikes, blue jets do not appear to be directly triggered by lightning (they do, however, appear to relate to strong hail activity in thunderstorms). They are also brighter than sprites and, as implied by their name, are blue in color. The color is believed to be due to a set of blue and near-ultraviolet emission lines from neutral and ionized molecular nitrogen. They were first recorded on October 21, 1989, on a monochrome video of a thunderstorm on the horizon taken from the Space Shuttle as it passed over Australia. Blue jets occur much less frequently than sprites. By 2007, fewer than a hundred images had been obtained. The majority of these images, which include the first color imagery, are associated with a single thunderstorm studied by researchers from the University of Alaska. These were taken in a series of 1994 aircraft flights to study sprites.

Upper-Atmospheric Lightning

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Its really too bad this thread is being derailed by some because the phenomenon in one of the video's is clearly worth some rational speculation.

Based on these descriptions I do think upper-atmospheric lightning is a good suspect.

Upper-Atmospheric Lightning

I'll go with that explanation. What an amazing thing to catch on camera in the daylight. Well spotted them folk with the cameras.

Originally posted by wigit

I'll go with that explanation. What an amazing thing to catch on camera in the daylight. Well spotted them folk with the cameras.

I've never seen anything like it, it was quite the catch. Whether it is upper-atmospheric lightning or not, I don't know but it does seem to fit with what we are seeing.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Excellent, why was I thinking coronas?

But seriously, thank you for demystifying these HAARPie videos.

Here are some Sprites and other atmospheric phenomena:

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Excellent, why was I thinking coronas?

Thirsty maybe?

I do love a cold corona with a lemon wedge on a hot day.

I can see those lights being sprites or a case of strange light reflection.
However, the sudden cloud changes in videos 2 and 3 can't be contributed to that. It doesn't look like wind, since the movement are erratic and in all directions, and then wouldn't the rest of the clouds be effected also?

Originally posted by thereisnotry
I can see those lights being sprites or a case of strange light reflection.
However, the sudden cloud changes in videos 2 and 3 can't be contributed to that. It doesn't look like wind, since the movement are erratic and in all directions, and then wouldn't the rest of the clouds be effected also?

Agreed, vids 2&3 are a mystery to me. Some in this forum claim to be weather experts, it would be nice to hear they're opinions.

You know who you are.

THIS vid is much more interesting than those 2...how'd you miss it OP??


Grrrr..... ok, THIS link!!

Weird Clouds 1

reply to post by SmokeyDawn


Interesting video for sure. I'm going to guess that was the sun behind some heavy cloud or a nuclear explosion in the sky.