America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

reply to post by misterbananas


Soviets pushed the Germans back to regain their own border, and didn't push very far. The Americans helped push back the entire European theater, and met the Soviets at Berlin. Who covered more ground? Maybe the soviets just sucked badly at fighting? They were on home turf in the Russian winter after all. How did the Soviet Union do later in other theaters? Not very damned well, that's how they did. If not for American ingenuity, the European theater would've been a loss. The soviets were never very intelligent in their tactics, which is why the had such a high number of people that went into battle haphazardly, to die, for "mother Russia".

There are accounts of eye witnesses claiming that they were throwing t-34s in the face of 2-3 Panthers, and the Panthers were destroying the t-34s in the hundreds. They would corner a few tanks, and then ride them into the ground with Soviet casualties and t-34s until the Panther crews ran out of ammo. That's why the Soviets had a high body count, they were stupid. It's also why so many t-34s were produced. They were using them as bullet stops for Panthers, thereby sending their own soldiers to the grave. Yea, they really helped.

Again the defending Panther changed his position. After an hour, the second Panther returned from being resupplied and took up his defensive position. The enemy hadn’t given up their attempt to enter the city. During the afternoon, the enemy with an infantry battalion supported by four SU assault guns, under cover of the tall corn fields, tried twice to break in from the southeast. But, both attacks were completely repulsed by the two defending Panthers. All four SU assault guns that took part in both of these attacks were shot up. Two Panthers defending the city from the south and southeast had broke up two tank and two infantry attacks. The enemy suffered the loss of eleven tanks and very heavy losses of men.

source

This account came from, "Combat and Experience Report on the Action near Wilkowischken from 9 to 11 August 1944 by Oberfeldwebel Heinz Bergmann of the 4. Kompanie/Panzer-Regiment 26".

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Last time I checked, the Soviets decimated several veteran German armies in Eastern Europe, including SS divisions, retaking the strategic Kursk Salient oilfields while smashing their way into Germany... which is when the Third Reich fell apart and Hitler disappeared. By the way, did I mention that this was all after the Soviets were pushed to the brink of annihilation, only to regroup their forces from the Japanese front to the European front?

Your Panther vs T-34 story is rather convenient. I've seen a lot of documentaries where German vets couldn't comprehend how T-34s outnumbered and outmatched them on the battlefield. Most high-end Nazi tanks were overengineered to the point where they couldn't even leave a flat road or risk serious malfunction and maintenance cost.

the United States paid in material...the Soviet Union paid in blood.

The Eastern Front, as the site of nearly all extermination camps, death marches, ghettos, and the majority of pogroms, was central to the Holocaust. Of the estimated 70 million deaths attributed to World War II, over 30 million,[many of them civilians, died on the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front was decisive in determining the outcome of World War II, eventually serving as the main reason for Germany's defeat...

Wikipedia quote.

Possibly the most ignorant, stupidest post EVER in ATS...I mean wow..loss for words really..Thank God idiots like you cannot re-write the history books (and perhaps you should go actually READ a few.)
Waste of time thread.

The fool who launched this should maybe read a few true history books ref; WW2. Take glance at the longest battle, the Casino event, and then perhaps visit Le Havre etc. and take a look around the Military Graves.

Had only Human been Killed during WW2, then even that would have been 1 too many. Yet the total of People killed amounts to 55 Million and yes the majority were unarmed , innocent, Civilians. War will never make sense, take a look at Germany today. Rich, healthy country that via the so called EU managed to purchase our original UK Water supply etc.etc.etc. So think before making such hurtful remarks, or questions

I agee... America didn't do nearly as much as they claim during ww2. They couldn't even start on time... The twats were more than 12 months late for the begining of the war!!! Even then the good ole U.S. of A. only cared about the war because the Japanese bombed the piss out of Pearl Habour. (How embarassing!)

Somethings never change...

Even now America gives little to no recoginition to those nations who have made the war in Iraq possible by lending their support.

COME ON PEOPLE... THE HUMVEE WAS DESIGNED BY A KIWI!!!

Originally posted by rlever1
Possibly the most ignorant, stupidest post EVER in ATS...I mean wow..loss for words really..Thank God idiots like you cannot re-write the history books (and perhaps you should go actually READ a few.)
Waste of time thread.

When compared to the eastern front...Germany vs Russia..The OP is correct...

The German armed forces suffered 80% of its military deaths in the Eastern Front. It involved more land combat than all other World War II theatres combined...

reply to post by misterbananas





This OP should say sorry 416,800 times for the amount of dead Us soldiers in WW2. I post very little on ATS these days because of posts like this and other Anti-American crap. Whats the point? Look around every country sucks.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


The Panther was by far the most feared tank in WW2. They were responsible for so many deaths, per vehicle, that it was really kind of pathetic that no one could do anything about it. They also were more than capable of leaving a road.

Originally posted by Evolutionsend

Soviets pushed the Germans back to regain their own border, and didn't push very far. The Americans helped push back the entire European theater, and met the Soviets at Berlin. Who covered more ground?

To be fair, that's not that far off half way. Maybe nearer two thirds for the British, Canadians and Americans (and other allies) and one third for the Russians.

The real problem was that afterwards we returned home. And the Russians stayed put.

And I suspect if they thought they could have gotten away with it, the Russians would have pushed on to the English Channel (notwithstanding which, I beleive Churchill felt we should have pushed on the other way)

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

The Panther was by far the most feared tank in WW2. They were responsible for so many deaths, per vehicle, that it was really kind of pathetic that no one could do anything about it. They also were more than capable of leaving a road.

It seems like the Panther was big, expensive and as the Nazi military industrial complex dissolved after extensive bombing of industrial zones, not practically maintainable for constant combat conditions.

It was certainly a good tank if you have a fuel and engineer convoy to support it, just like the modern Abrams.

T-34 was relatively cheap to produce, had a powerful gun and innovative armour. They were designed with simple tractor controls so crew training was not intensive, and the Soviets were able to field literally thousands of them.

And after Berlin fell, the Allies were crapping themselves at the sight of the IS-7 in Soviet parades because none of them were fielding anything like that at the time (earlier IS models were used in combat since 1943). The next tank to be produced in this generation was the British Centurion, which was not fielded in time for combat operations in WWII.

reply to post by Essan


Many, not sure if it was a majority, of the allied senior officers, especially Gen. Patton; felt that the Western Allies should have pushed on to Berlin, if not further. Churchill was probably in agreement with that, but Roosevelt was not, or his cabinet was not. Probably his cabinet, since by then Roosevelt was dying by inches, and may or may not have been in control of his White House.

It's an interesting subject for discussion. What would Europe, the world even; look like had the Western Allies not stopped?

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Essan

 

Many, not sure if it was a majority, of the allied senior officers, especially Gen. Patton; felt that the Western Allies should have pushed on to Berlin, if not further. Churchill was probably in agreement with that, but Roosevelt was not, or his cabinet was not. Probably his cabinet, since by then Roosevelt was dying by inches, and may or may not have been in control of his White House.

It's an interesting subject for discussion. What would Europe, the world even; look like had the Western Allies not stopped?

Interestingly enough, we were watching the Nuremburg Trials yesterday in class and it was mentioned that Rudolph Hess flew to Britain in order to try to build an alliance between the Allies and the Nazis against the Soviets (officially, he was deemed insane of course). Apparently the British didn't want it, and personally I think mostly everybody besides military brass wanted an end to conflict.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
I agee... America didn't do nearly as much as they claim during ww2. They couldn't even start on time... The twats were more than 12 months late for the begining of the war!!! Even then the good ole U.S. of A. only cared about the war because the Japanese bombed the piss out of Pearl Habour. (How embarassing!)

Somethings never change...

Even now America gives little to no recoginition to those nations who have made the war in Iraq possible by lending their support.

COME ON PEOPLE... THE HUMVEE WAS DESIGNED BY A KIWI!!!

Better late than never...and say "thank you" else you would be the twat speaking German right now. Another ignorant, self important, ungrateful, jealous post spurred by a wannabe who knows nothing of history.

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


We started the day we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Prior to that, there was a bit of an undeclared war going on in the Atlantic. Try googling "Rueben James" for the story. Or "Kearney". Or any number of ships flying the American flag who were attacked by german uboats.

Hate to break this to you, but we were right on time. Unfortunately. I'm sure all those American soldiers and sailors had better things to do...

The European War was decided on the Eastern Front, that is where the brunt of the combat took place and where the German Army was basically destroyed (Bagratian 1944). America did its part but in no way was it responsible for winning the European War.
The Battle of the Bulge was a taste of how the Germans could have fought if they didn't have the Soviets to contend with on the East.
A West Point study concluded that in either attack or defense the German Wehrmacht was able to inflict 150% casualties on American forces during battles. An interesting statistic considering that most veteran German divisions were either destroyed by mid 1944 or facing the Soviets.

The innovation, adaptability, courage and unity of Americans during world war 2 was unprecedented and was a major factor in what made this nation what it is today. Unfortunately, we aren't as good as our ancestors were, but good blood still runs through us.

Dear. God. Where did the OP get his information??? Was he trolling??? How could anyone get this much information so utterly and completely WRONG???

a reply to: misterbananas



Your ignorance is astounding. You seem to conveniently forget rant the Soviets and Nazis were allies, and the Soviets invaded Poland too.
The western allies fought the Germans and Italians and drove them out of Africa. Then the allies drove the axis put of italy, Greece amd the Balkans. At the same time we were also fighting the Japanese in the pacific, Burma, Indonesia, new guinea and China
All the while shipping $11 billion worth of supplies to the Soviets.
Here is a very incomplete list of supplied sent to the Soviets, in many cases while our own troops lacked needed supplies.

In total, the US deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[28] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[29] 11,400 aircraft (4,719 of which were Bell P-39 Airacobras)[30] and 1.75 million tons of food.[31]

Add to that a couple million pairs of boots, over a thousand locomotives, millions of rounds of ammunition, dozens of liberty ships and destroyers, enough machine tools to build dozens of factories.

The western allies also destroyed the axis' industrial base, and cut off their access to oil.

Without the US intervention the Soviets would have likely fallen by1943.