Putting an End to the Gay Marriage Rhetoric

Preamble:
Let's make some things clear before the intellectual integrity of this thread is compromised by even more disdainful rhetoric; I've seen how these kinds of threads often turn out:

1. I'm making this thread because certain people who subscribe to a specific end of a political spectrum (the spectrum's entirety of which I completely reject, which is a topic for another day) so consistently bring up the same flawed arguments surrounding gay marriage. Don't bother calling me any scornful, witty, original things like "liberal" or "communist" or "fascist"; I'm quite immune to any silly political trolling here, and I don't subscribe to any political group's interests.

2. Nobody is "forcing anything down your throat" here. Actually, I'm writing this thread entirely because the people who so often claim to being "forced" are the ones who are bringing it up so frequently at inappropriate times.

3. I am rubber you are glue, my dad can beat up your dad, and my penis is exactly one inch larger than yours (I promise), etc..

4. I may show signs of a sense of humor; if you don't understand it, then this might be a bumpy ride.

---

The most important thing to be said here is that the American government never had any place wedging themselves into the establishment of marriage. It's a nasty, totalitarian idea for a government to demand registry, money, and regulation to declare love and commitment to someone. People -- ALL people -- don't rail nearly as hard as they should against this.

"Unfortunately", though, as it stands we have such demands from our governing body. To sugar-coat the totalitarian nonsense, marriage yields a plethora of federal benefits, as well as corporate/insurance benefits. Also "unfortunate", with the distribution of wealth where it is, these benefits can become a staple for many families to live by, and can be extremely helpful, and often crucial, for a family's survival.

All of that being said, people have the right to fight for what they believe in. I don't see enough groups lobbying against marriage regulation, and that problem is not specific to sexual orientation. I think it's safe to say it's not going to change any time soon, but there is a lot of talk about gay marriage in politics (for some crazy reason this somehow gets more attention than the worst of the worst things that are happening to this country) and a lot of support to at least be allowed to receive the same benefits as everyone else.

Let's get down to the sillier arguments that I'm less inclined to pseudo-censor my sense of humor for:

"I enthuse about definitions of words" - Well, yes, you certainly do . Until, of course they affect you negatively, at which point it magically becomes "POLITICAL CORRECT MADNESS AND SEMANTIC HAIRSPLITTING!!!!!111~" Convenience at it's best! Seriously, the definition of marriage has been changed thousands of times for far less relevant reasons, give me a break. You don't seem too upset that the government defiled the definition of marriage to turn a buck, where have you been for this whole fight?

"Gay people CAN get married... to the opposite sex. It IS equal! They just want SPECIAL rights!" - Way to not open the window of your glass house before trying to chuck a stone out of it... The "argument" defeats itself: if gay people can get married to the opposite sex and that makes them equal, then you also have the right to get married to the SAME sex, making the right no more or less special than heterosexual marriage. You could even say... EQUAL... but I wouldn't, that might light the propagandist torch in some people's heads and make them switch off their brains to start flinging political rhetoric like chimpanzees throwing their own fecal matter.

"GOD says..." - Well in that case, God says that you should sell me your daughter as a slave and that I am NOT to treat her with the same decency that I treat my male servants with. Don't worry, I'd have to give her back in 7 years. I hope she doesn't like pork! Anyways, 3800 years later, here we are in reality where we study this thing called History, and we know now that whenever someone's "GOD says" anything, it is usually making someone a hell of a lot of money at the expense of a large percent of a self-righteous population that zealously pushes the propaganda free of charge. WWJD, people. Let's reassess these logs in our eyes before we go chirping at a struggling family who wants the same allowances that everyone else gets and that their tax dollars help pay for.

"Gay families are child abuse!" - Maybe YOU shouldn't be a parent if you think the key to parenthood is having both forms gender-specific genitalia. The most overtly religious people tend to have the most screwed up children from what I've seen, and according to studies done on it, gay parents are statistically doing better. So, should we ONLY let gay people be parents now? . And since when does how well someone's specific, labeled group is doing at parenting allow the government to dictate which labeled groups are and aren't allowed to parent? Look at single parents, do we scream to high heavens about how unfit they are to parent? They're doing the worst by far, for obvious reasons.

(I know that I'm missing some other big ones... This OP is getting too long, I don't want to monologue through everything.)

I'm just sick of seeing this constantly like it's such a huge topic in politics.

There is so much more important stuff for us to be investing our efforts into.

Everyone should just let freedom be freedom, Christianity be about CHRIST, and move on with THEIR lives.

Had to star and flag just because of how you summed up the gay parent vs religious fanatic part.
Was a nice read.

Very eloquently put. Star and Flag for you.


Unfortunately I do have an issue with one section of your OP....
This is not true.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

3. I am rubber you are glue, my dad can beat up your dad, and my penis is exactly one inch larger than yours (I promise), etc..

Other topics in politics can be addressed at the same time as this. We have the ability to multi-task you know. And your forgetting one important thing.

You may dismiss every argument that comes up but if the people want to make this an issue than it will be. That is how our government works. Many people feel very strongly on this issue, on both sides, so regardless of your dismissal of the reasons it will remain a battleground for quite a long time I imagine.

You don't have the right to tell another citizen what should be important to them nor do they have the right to tell you what to believe. If they choose to think irrationally than that is totally their right under the Constitution and they can form groups and try to change the legislation.

If you feel so strongly on this issue I would suggest contacting your representatives instead of venting on a website.

its stupid how people can make this into a big deal, i mean seriously is there something wrong with some christians? i saw a video how they teased a muslim because he was praying with their stupid banners up and around chanting some crap, basically saying my god is better then yours.. get a life. i wish people would mind their own buisness, its a disgrace. i dont have any problem with gay people, infact most of them are very nice people, completely harmless their just as equal as everyone eles. why isit such a big deal? is it because god says so? who even wrote the bible is all i want to know? can you be so sure its not be tarnished with made up stories through thousands of years? the bible references similar if not most of the most famous events that happened, that are too documented in other religious books besides christianity if i am correct..? anyway in this day and age people should learn to accept the reality of the world we all live in, at the end of the day they are not causing any harm to you personally or anyone. those who have bad things to say, get a grip.

nicely done, Bravo .......... can I add a thought. we all go back to "where are the jobs" when it comes to our lawmakers inability to deal with what matters. well if you think about it allowing gay marriage creates jobs. it sure stimulates the local economies. I saw a piece on the news when NewYork passed the gay marriage law. the bakers, restaurants, rental halls, liquor & beer outlets, florists, etc, saw a dramatic increase in their business. what can possibly be wrong with that. my point -- maybe Congress should embrace gay marriage because it creates jobs. ....... wouldn't that be something to see.

reply to post by kro32


Unfortunately the plague of propaganda that a country has to offer often makes people think that they care about things that they really, really shouldn't. It's amazing how much politicians get away with because people are too busy enthusing about the unimportant hype that gets built up around ridiculous ''issues" like this.

Can't blame them, really, propaganda is a tricky device and is everywhere. I've surfed the curtails of that tsunami for the cheap thrills myself, but I've learned my lesson. When the rain of propaganda comes down, at least pull out an umbrella. These are not just "peoples' opinions", if they were, nobody in the political world would give a damn about them.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

The only problem I forsee from unity of the same sex would be the outcome of the children they raise.A child is dependent upon his or her parents,be it male and female to contribute a balance of emotional and phsychological support,each different in it's approach due to the fact we are different beings.The most important figure in a child's life is the same sex parent.I have nothing against anyone for their beliefs in the sanctity of marriage,but the outcome of the children raised in such an environment may sure be lacking a fundamental link to humanity.Distinction from who they are and what they are being taught to believe.How will a child,per say,male boy if growing up in a home with two females as his parents learn how to be a man?And vice versa.If two men raise a girl how will they teach the girl about being a woman?They can't.There are reasons why two sexes were created.One being the ongoing production of the species and two the balance that is created when they join in union.
I think that by the same sex joining together that it introduces an over abundance of the same ideals,which in fact seperate us as male and female,and will eventually put a large wedge between men and woman.Separating ourselves unto each other believing that we weren't created to join as male and female.The continuity of the species is dependent upon the fact that woman have children and they certainly cannot due this without a male.
I don't know about this issue.
I can definitely see some social impacts in the future with individuals having no link to their identities as male or female.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


You are implying now that people are too stupid to look at an issue and decide if it's important to them or not. Instead their every though is controlled by the government?

Stretching it a bit don't ya think?

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


You make entirely too much sense and your whole post should be removed because of it.
So as not to create a minimal post I am going to keep talking here for a minute on another topic that may also be of interest. Liberty. Who needs it? I think everybody who is responsible enough not to harm infringe upon or jeopardize the rights and safety of another human or animal, deserves all the freedom and liberty they can handle without killing themselves but if they WANT to kill themselves they even have my blessing and permission there too. Who am I to judge and make these random and unnecessary and freedom limiting laws? Who are you? Who is anybody? If I don't hurt anyone else I should be able to do it.

Originally posted by LooksLikeWeMadeIt
nicely done, Bravo .......... can I add a thought. we all go back to "where are the jobs" when it comes to our lawmakers inability to deal with what matters. well if you think about it allowing gay marriage creates jobs. it sure stimulates the local economies. I saw a piece on the news when NewYork passed the gay marriage law. the bakers, restaurants, rental halls, liquor & beer outlets, florists, etc, saw a dramatic increase in their business. what can possibly be wrong with that. my point -- maybe Congress should embrace gay marriage because it creates jobs. ....... wouldn't that be something to see.

What else would you condone just to see business flourish.It's not a matter of whether or not this can create jobs,this is a very serious issue,and will certainly have social ramifications in society beyond what we can see today.
It's about the future we have allowed to happen and have given over to our children.What if one day the marriage between men and woman is banned?

Originally posted by Daedal
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

The most important figure in a child's life is the same sex parent.I have nothing against anyone for their beliefs in the sanctity of marriage,but the outcome of the children raised in such an environment may sure be lacking a fundamental link to humanity.Distinction from who they are and what they are being taught to believe.How will a child,per say,male boy if growing up in a home with two females as his parents learn how to be a man?

Whose definition of "man"? Not all straight male parents are what I would call real "men". That doesn't necessarily mean that they are unfit to parent. And I really don't understand how you could possibly think that having specific genitalia defines someone and that's how it should be; that's a very primal mindset. I would go as far as to say that forcing your children into cookie-cut gender roles is more child abuse than not charing the same genitalia as them -- far more: gender stereotypes play a bigger part in juvenile suicide rates than anyone would care to acknowledge.

The continuity of the species is dependent upon the fact that woman have children and they certainly cannot due this without a male.

I don't think the population is going to suddenly disappear anytime soon. India alone considered, we could repopulate fully in 3 years from that country alone if the rest of the world was wiped out from "the contagious gays!" nonsense.

I don't know about this issue.
I can definitely see some social impacts in the future with individuals having no link to their identities as male or female.

A good place to put this foresight would be after such a statement..

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

You are implying now that people are too stupid to look at an issue and decide if it's important to them or not. Instead their every though is controlled by the government?

Stretching it a bit don't ya think?

It is stretching it a bit to think people cannot make these kinds of decisions for themselves when it involves themselves and no one else.

reply to post by kro32


You're putting words in my mouth.

It's a common trend among all your posts here on ATS.

You'd have to be extremely sheltered to think that gay marriage is as super-important as political debates hype it up to be.

I never said anything about people being too stupid, I specifically said propaganda is more powerful than we give it credit for. If you don't think that this gay marriage nonsense is distracting from much, much more important issues then you are simply one of those victims of such propaganda, and it's a shame.

I never said that they don't make these "opinions" on their own, I said that it is overhyped by the media and political world.

The OP claims he's sick of seeing topics like this turn into huge ordeals in politics yet it is every Americans right to take any issue they consider important and try to change or keep legislation that pertains to that.

The OP than goes on to give reasons why people should not believe what they do as if he were the Ultimate Judge of what people should consider important.

The OP then claims that people are influenced by all the propaganda implying they are not able to make their own decisions on topics they feel strongly about.

I find this whole post very offensive.

reply to post by kro32


Kay, you're trolling, I'm over it.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


It is not distracting from anything as multiple issues can be worked on at any given time. Our nation does not only address one thing at a time and move on and regardless it doesn't matter if it detracts or not. The people will decide what issues come to the forefront and if the people decide it will be this issue than that's the way it is.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

It is not distracting from anything as multiple issues can be worked on at any given time. Our nation does not only address one thing at a time and move on and regardless it doesn't matter if it detracts or not. The people will decide what issues come to the forefront and if the people decide it will be this issue than that's the way it is.

Watch the GOP debate and tell me that we touched on "all of the important issues".

On this forum.

I dare you.

reply to post by Daedal

There are several problem with that statement in its own self.
The first is that there are a large number of single parent families where one or the other parent is missing and the children seem to grow up alright, healthy, and well adjusted. There is no real reason to think that both parents would need to be present or around at the same time for a child to grow up at all and be otherwise. If that were the case then there would be studies and problems what would have come out long before this issue ever did and they would have been backed by peer review and been in every medical journal stating such. At the same time there has really never been any serious study as to the effects of children growing up in a same sex household, none that would indicate what the results would be, that was not biased towards the religious point of view.
The other point is that not every person out there wants to have or deal with children, not every couple gay or straight want to deal with that, so that too has to be a separate issue.
The question could also be asked, what exactly is defined as a male and what exactly is defined as a female in a social roles? After all even in straight marriages, there are times when the man takes a more submissive role and the woman takes on a more masculine role. These are accepted as societal norms, and can be best seen in the work place, or even in the military. Female officers or NCO’s are far more aggressive, and will often show that they can out perform or do the job better than those of their male counterparts, and the men under them do not seem to mind taking orders from a woman. Is this wrong for society to accept or deal with? Even in business, a woman in charge is going to take on more aspects of a man, than a women when it comes to making decisions, and we accept that. So how is parenting any different than what you would see out in the rest of society? And most people, well they do not include their children in all aspects of their lives, to include what goes on behind closed doors of their bedroom. Society does not accept that, and neither to most people who have or want children.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood

 

It is not distracting from anything as multiple issues can be worked on at any given time. Our nation does not only address one thing at a time and move on and regardless it doesn't matter if it detracts or not. The people will decide what issues come to the forefront and if the people decide it will be this issue than that's the way it is.

Watch the GOP debate and tell me that we touched on "all of the important issues".

On this forum.

I dare you.

Sorry not understanding what your asking me there, still haven't had enough coffee yet.