America is a Concept Whose Time Is NOT Obsolete

In the eleven years I've been on ATS, it was a domestic (US-heavy site) initially, a haven for those in shock around 9/11, then it broadened to a specialist conspiracy site for people all over the world, then it became such a traffic driver or destination it became a magnet for disinformation agents. In the last few years...OK the last 5...multiple parties have made terrible mistakes in the United States. Perhaps it is no surprise that the "deniers" that come to this site, the "challengers" of the world's systems have now taken aim at the easy target that is America.

What hurts my heart is the easy anger, dismissal and happy commentary regarding the “fall of the empire”. People really take relish in the sticking the knife in and turning it as they see problems. Some with no context of the geopolitical reality of the last 100 years have completely oversimplified these judgments. People whose single view is one religion, one class there family has resided in, one or two generations of knowledge (example Gen Y’s current experience with knowledge of Baby Boomer’s reality...perhaps their parents.)

It is my belief that this view is far too narrow to place to make categorical judgements against concepts like capitalism, socialism, wealth distribution, America’s role in the world, any country with a significant interest in the world (China). It makes me angry to hear people easily dismiss America as a rich country exploiting and living fat while the rest of the world starves. The individual citizens of America who have risen to success have done this through their own hard work and the very opportunity they have found here. Many of these people escaped the destitution or complete powerlessness of a system wherein all things were treated and supplied equally regardless of contribution.

In my family I have seen a generation of foreigners who had great wealth that was then seized by the communists. The manipulative, destructive force of this gradual absorption of all someone had worked for nearly destroyed the family. It removed goods, properties, pride, physical health (and caused death), mental health (and resulted in a suicide) and reduced a free-minded group of industrious people to a restricted for of slavery through limited options to contribute, earn or operate freely. And then, the promise of America called. A place where ANYTHING WAS POSSIBLE FOR ANYONE WILLING TO WORK HARD. A place where there were NO GUARANTEES, only OPPORTUNITIES. Streets that may have been described as being paved with gold, but not in the way a Rome was paved with gold but a rich, fertile path for those that had a vision and initiative to create what they want.

And as legal immigrants came and grew our country (Millionnaire Next Door), and as our own people found to create or find this same idealistic reality of America that had been touted, the country took another shift. In the way communist and socialist countries have a captive mass of producers and loyalists because they are dependent, America in it’s “goodness” created programs to ensure that a) Those that were stepping up and achieving continued to do sp and b) Those that hadn’t found their way up were provided for so that we as a successful country overall had a baseline of care and compassion for our “less than” citizens.

But having seen communism and distribution of wealth completely gut the motivational, innovative spirit of those that could create enough commerce and opportunity to pull 5, 10, 15 or more people up with them, I don’t understand the wisdom of those that feel further entitlements, greater hand-outs, redestributing from those that open the businesses to employee the people that want to leave the entitlement behind. I just don’t get that. And I challenge anyone that wants to so oversimplify what should happen to “America” as a crash and reset, to consider that America is a nation of men and ideas, not simply a government and financial system. America for so many is a dream they desperately cling to. A dream that creates opportunity for all, not a limited few wealthy people. And in my opinion, at the end of the day we have the alternative of a) a few ridiculously wealthy people, but an opportunity for unlimited growth for ANYONE willing to make the connections and apply themselves to succeed and b) a limit on wealthy people, a forced ceiling that simply lowers the lowest than the masses can sink to.

And people should have faith that the system that is America is self-policing because among the most wealthy we have on one hand:
- Bill and Melinda gates contributing their great wealth for philanthropic purposes like education and access to information
- George Soros is contributing great wealth to build his own while funding messages that challenge our capitalist system and support democratic candidates and more socialist systems. Again, someone who escaped communism, benefited from capitalism and yet now professes to support (or at least financially supports messaging) around distribution of wealth
- Warren Buffett who is trying to read the tea leaves, watch for opportunity, continue to growth business but investing in winners that may be unknown or losers that could be reinvented. He does this not only for his own good but shares this knowledge through funds and a company
- Ted Turner gave over a Billion dollars to the United Nations and is sticking to paying that money even when he lost his own.
- We, INCLUDING OUR WEALTHY, are a mixed bag. It is what is MAGIC about us, it is what we profess as our approach to all humans. EVERY ONE is an individual. I wish people would stop seeing America as a single thing and our Rich People as a homogenous group.

I just needed to get this off my chest because I feel like people are forgetting the affected individuals, the beauty of the American dream and the leveling affect that our failure would have.I feel very privileged to have learned directly from those that had their lives destroyed through communism and subsequently softened socialism. If America is an outdated idea, there still needs to a land of opportunity that motivates and draws to it people that seek unlimited potential and seek to create.

I'm sorry this is such a missive but I feel passionate about this. There are either threads about America's pending demise or it's pending default. I will post some of this content in those locations. Does anyone feel like me? Is anyone a first generation child of an immigrant that is horrified with the America bashing going on?

reply to post by Losonczy


I cannot believe there is not one response to this thread. There are so many comments about defaulting, crashing, burning and various consequences, I'm surprised no one is interested in discussing this from I higher level of aspiration, inspiration and perception.

reply to post by Losonczy


Amen brother.. I couldn't think of a way to have said it better. By meor anyone for that matter.. Thank you..

Thx for the thread !!!

Give it some time.. There is a bit to absorb first.

Someone will chime in eventually.

I always go against the America bashers in every thread I see pretty much. Or at least bring the opposite point of view to the table. I will often counter a destructive thread by bringing up history and times when America has gone through worse and come through but I usually just get labeled a troll

This is a discussion forum and it seems that most are wanting to discuss the negatives and be pessimistic as opposed to looking for how we often face struggles but come through especially with our Constitution pretty much in tact.

We've always had peaceful transitions of power even when Bush was the current leader of the NWO and you saw him step down without a fight. You saw Al Gore not call for a revolution when he argueably lost the election. These are principles that keeps America going and people forget that when they look at the economy or our current foreign policy.

They are too quick to judge America as not being strong enough to withstand these problems and don't look to the history of the United States and it's successess.

the american dream of leave me alone and let me make my own way on my own terms has been replaced

with gimme my free stuff.

cant win agianst people who throw money at your way for nothing people dont wanna earn nothing anymore

they are entitled to everything even what you have.

cant kill that ideology that message that is embraced these days is what can the government give me!!!!

if you dont feel that way like i do we are in the minority and our numbers are shrinking.

and the current state of the union exists.

the best thing is for a collapse i am sorry to say it but proping up a system of government knows best will never work.

There are a lot of difficult and complex challenges going on and I appreciate the reason you have shown in trying to understand the situation. There are a lot of people just starting to wake up to how dire the situation is with humour, anger and disillusion very common reactions. It does take a lot of time to study and developed a clearer picture of just what is happening and where the specific problems are as there are many of them.

To get through this I recommend trying to remain respectful of how other may be feeling and how little information they may have about it. There are answers and resources around to clean up this mess but it going to take a lot of cool heads and common sense to work through it.