The english riots, but where are the scottish, welsh and irish riots?

reply to post by GonzoSinister


yeah poverty! this is not the same as simply receiving low wages.
I think it is you who doesnt get it.
When you have a thought and want to represent it in words, I suggest you chose the correct words. You are clearly thinking one thing and then typing something completely different.
Oh and yeah of course, this has to be all about me and my issues doesnt it?
Cant be because you are making glaring assumptions without any basis or intelligent thought.

reply to post by thedoctorswife


Yes, although we all know that Northern Ireland have a troubled recent history, and their riots are usually over other issues which we thankfully don't have to deal with in other parts of the UK.

Don't you think the national identity of Scotland and Wales comes in to play here ?

Do you really feel the same attachment and affinity to places like London, Birmingham, Manchester and Nottingham, as you do to Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli or Pontypridd ?

I certainly don't feel anything like the same affinity to places in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, as I do to other parts of England. Take Hereford and Wrexham, for example: if people were causing trouble in Wrexham, I would shrug my shoulders and think ''Welsh problem'', but just over the border, if their were civil disturbances in Hereford, I would have a keener and more personal feeling of the problem because it's in England.

reply to post by thedoctorswife

Seriously though, I live in Carlisle and I am Scottish, The standard of living here is no better
than Scotland or Northern Ireland or Wales, It's the same right the way across to Newcastle. Funny enough though
there were no riots here either.
The rioters are using poverty as an excuse, Not all of them were poor anyway.
Is it not down to the more you have the more you want. I mean how can you be poor running around
with Blackberry phones and all the latest "Chav" brand clothes.

We up in the North are hated by the Scots for not being Scottish and we are hated by the English for not being
"proper" English. We can't win, but we didn't riot.

Peace

Concentrated unemployment and drug peddling/using is largely to blame.
No one has considered how many of the looters and rioters/ arsonists/murderers were on drugs.
Unemployment kills the spirit of those who want to work, as the old saying goes... idle hands produce the devils vaccumn.

Newcastle is in England and it had neglible rioting, they have a predominantly Anglo culture , and the minorities tend to assimilate a bit more( or else).

They wouldn't dare to attack Newcastle...believe me.

But no ethnic race can be soley blamed....unemployment due to Chinese outsourcing is to blame also.

If you have up to thirty per cent unemployent in some areas what do we expect?

They are all going to form rap groups?

They have a right to expect a future.

But their methods of expressing their hate and frustration is unacceptable totally.

A good dose of military discipline would sort their heads out.

And give them direction.

Originally posted by SemperFish
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

yeah poverty! this is not the same as simply receiving low wages.
I think it is you who doesnt get it.
When you have a thought and want to represent it in words, I suggest you chose the correct words. You are clearly thinking one thing and then typing something completely different.
Oh and yeah of course, this has to be all about me and my issues doesnt it?
Cant be because you are making glaring assumptions without any basis or intelligent thought.

Far from it....

Take one person on benefits... now with support for there eheating and there rent paid for them in a four week period once outgoings are there they are in no worse a financial situation than me...

so low wages to not having a job and being paid for by the system there is very little in it... the only difference is 9-5, i know now you'll tell me im wrong... but i grew up on the wrong side of town...i have friends on benefits that genuianly cant get work... they are qualified but in our area they cant get long term employment, some have criminal records and that is a black mark against there name, it doesnt change the fact that once my electricity is paid (and theres is paid for)once gas is paid (and theres is paid for) and once rent is paid (and theres is paid for) when they get there dole money and i get whats left of my wages... we can both go to the same club and have the same dinner and still have almost exactly the same amount of money left over.....

and before you then argue about way of life, my house is slightly bigger than one of my close on benefits qualified joiner mate who is not so long out of jail, but damn if his 50" tv and new white leather couch and pretty flooring and well decorated flat doesnt look realll pretty... which btw wasd paid with government grants to decorate his house int he form of high street vouchers....

so having low wages to being unemployed and poor are exactly the same thing (financialy) you just have diffrent ways of your stuff being paid for... but the money in your pocket at the end of the month is all the same amount!!

reply to post by GonzoSinister


low wages or not , when your working and on a low wage, you are contributing, you have a life, and most of all you have your self respect.
Many many people on benefits are there by choice... TRUE

Originally posted by SemperFish
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

yeah poverty! this is not the same as simply receiving low wages.
I think it is you who doesnt get it.
When you have a thought and want to represent it in words, I suggest you chose the correct words. You are clearly thinking one thing and then typing something completely different.
Oh and yeah of course, this has to be all about me and my issues doesnt it?
Cant be because you are making glaring assumptions without any basis or intelligent thought.

Furthermore... the people who were caught rioting did infact (in most places) have a job.. a low paying job, so they were close to the poverty line or within it anyway... check the court cases of the ready convicted and see what there proffessions were...

doesnt mean because they get a low paid wage they are then not poor!! poverty is objective to what those around you have!! so in london... no 50" tv... poor... no nice car... poor if your on 16k a year and live on your own in the uk chances are... you are poor....

reply to post by GonzoSinister
I work hard and also recieve some benefits, i worked 20 years full time and paid my fair share of income tax, all i wanted to know was why people thought that there were the same problems with riots in the celtic countries but theres still time i suppose.
but hey if theres no rioting in these places at least we can find our fair share of fighting on ATS.

reply to post by GonzoSinister


What you are saying is just laughable, and you try to justify it with your little throw away comment about knowing people from the wrong sides of the track....
If you were any more transparent, you would barely exist at all.
A thinly veiled attack on the unemployed and those in receipt of benefit.

Originally posted by rigel4
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

low wages or not , when your working and on a low wage, you are contributing, you have a life, and most of all you have your self respect.
Many many people on benefits are there by choice... TRUE

i know!!! i totally agree! this was not the point im making...

quite simply this is all about.. the area that people were rioting from have a low income.. or on benefits... im not saying being on benefits is right...

im just trying to clear up why the OP asked why you didnt see the issues in Scotland Ireland or wales when they have by percent the lowest wages (and high benefit claims) in the UK

and im just trying to make the poster who wants to argue that it has nothing to do with low wages to understand that it has been clearly stated by those who were rioting (some with jobs some without) that this has been because they felt they could get things and they have nothing!!

with the evidence before you... people without money, either on benefits or with a low income rioting because they are poor comparitivley to those around them, it stands to reason you would expect to see this all across the UK as there are areas with a much larger poor to wealth and employed to unemployed ration than manchester and london!

i know in most case (or a high percentage) people dont make an effort to get of the dole, but thats for another thread!

Originally posted by SemperFish
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

What you are saying is just laughable, and you try to justify it with your little throw away comment about knowing people from the wrong sides of the track....
If you were any more transparent, you would barely exist at all.
A thinly veiled attack on the unemployed and those in receipt of benefit.

far from it... i understand as well as many that some people have issues getting jobs, i watched all my mates in the trades loose work, and have either helped them find jobs or do online applications for college or similar to help them along cause thats where my skillset is...

i have no issues with people on benefits.. who have contributed when they have been able to contribute....

im starting to think your trolling because what you are saying here is wildly off topic now!

Originally posted by GonzoSinister

Originally posted by rigel4
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

low wages or not , when your working and on a low wage, you are contributing, you have a life, and most of all you have your self respect.
Many many people on benefits are there by choice... TRUE

i know!!! i totally agree! this was not the point im making...

quite simply this is all about.. the area that people were rioting from have a low income.. or on benefits... im not saying being on benefits is right...

im just trying to clear up why the OP asked why you didnt see the issues in Scotland Ireland or wales when they have by percent the lowest wages (and high benefit claims) in the UK

and im just trying to make the poster who wants to argue that it has nothing to do with low wages to understand that it has been clearly stated by those who were rioting (some with jobs some without) that this has been because they felt they could get things and they have nothing!!

with the evidence before you... people without money, either on benefits or with a low income rioting because they are poor comparitivley to those around them, it stands to reason you would expect to see this all across the UK as there are areas with a much larger poor to wealth and employed to unemployed ration than manchester and london!

i know in most case (or a high percentage) people dont make an effort to get of the dole, but thats for another thread!

I never said it was not about low wages, I said it was not ALL about low wages. It really is pointless for you to construct long winded lengthy walls of text defending your position if you fail to adequately comprehend other peoples replies...

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

I work hard and also recieve some benefits, i worked 20 years full time and paid my fair share of income tax, all i wanted to know was why people thought that there were the same problems with riots in the celtic countries but theres still time i suppose.
but hey if theres no rioting in these places at least we can find our fair share of fighting on ATS.

lol certianley as close as i'll get to a riot any time soon... we all know how to behave (at least when we're not down south)

reply to post by thedoctorswife


Hhhmm... It appears to me that its not so much a case of what comes into one's pocket in a material sense that accounts for the rioting but more of a case of what that person's sense of self worth is, and their relationship to their community is.
If they feel part of it and what they get/give to it... the key is emotional worth rather than financial. If they don't feel part of a community then they are more likely to trash it as they have no positive emotional investment in it..
Poor kids and wealthy kids will trash and steal when they feel ostracised, yet as soon as they start contributing to a community their attitude changes along with their self worth.

My 2 cents worth...

Originally posted by SemperFish

Originally posted by GonzoSinister

Originally posted by rigel4
reply to post by GonzoSinister

 

low wages or not , when your working and on a low wage, you are contributing, you have a life, and most of all you have your self respect.
Many many people on benefits are there by choice... TRUE

i know!!! i totally agree! this was not the point im making...

quite simply this is all about.. the area that people were rioting from have a low income.. or on benefits... im not saying being on benefits is right...

im just trying to clear up why the OP asked why you didnt see the issues in Scotland Ireland or wales when they have by percent the lowest wages (and high benefit claims) in the UK

and im just trying to make the poster who wants to argue that it has nothing to do with low wages to understand that it has been clearly stated by those who were rioting (some with jobs some without) that this has been because they felt they could get things and they have nothing!!

with the evidence before you... people without money, either on benefits or with a low income rioting because they are poor comparitivley to those around them, it stands to reason you would expect to see this all across the UK as there are areas with a much larger poor to wealth and employed to unemployed ration than manchester and london!

i know in most case (or a high percentage) people dont make an effort to get of the dole, but thats for another thread!

I never said it was not about low wages, I said it was not ALL about low wages. It really is pointless for you to construct long winded lengthy walls of text defending your position if you fail to adequately comprehend other peoples replies...

Do enlighten us then on what caused these issues... remebering the rioters themselves have said its down to money ?

Have they? really? how many have you spoken to? Perhaps you read a few comments in the newspapers or watched an interview on t.v? Does this mean that this is the collective voice of the thousands of rioters? They have spoken have they? and they have said it is all down to money?
The poster above gave a more reasonable description. In my opinion there are many factors, and I dont proclaim to have enough information or be in a position to be able to give a definitive answer. There are not simple solutions.
However I will continue to deny ignorance in its many forms.

What I don't understand is why everyone is asking why the riots didn't spread here or there or north or south or country to country... why should they?

It was very odd watching it all unfold and hearing everyone saying it was in there town and it was all over the country (it really wasn't).

People seemed to WANT this thing to spread and it didn't.... 3-4 days and it fizzled out.

Originally posted by SemperFish
Have they? really? how many have you spoken to? Perhaps you read a few comments in the newspapers or watched an interview on t.v? Does this mean that this is the collective voice of the thousands of rioters? They have spoken have they? and they have said it is all down to money?
The poster above gave a more reasonable description. In my opinion there are many factors, and I dont proclaim to have enough information or be in a position to be able to give a definitive answer. There are not simple solutions.
However I will continue to deny ignorance in its many forms.

And you'll deny ignorance by telling me there were diffrent reasons of which you will not tell me about??

sorry that doesnt cut it... the OP looked for opinion on why certain things happend and why they happened in certain places (or to be more accurate didnt happen in certain places)...

so far your reply is... "diffrent things but not what you think, but im not telling you what?" really?


Keep on denying

reply to post by blupblup


its strange because i truley didnt ever see it occuring in scotland.. dunno why, as i said on the first page there less of a cultural devide here so like everyone is in the same boat..

in england there seems to be large pockets of people in a less fortunate situation who are all the one ethnic group... as history has taught us before throughout many countries.. if you segregate people off and keep the monetary divide there eventually they'll get annoyed and speak out about it..

just so happens in this case a peaceful protest gone wrong gave the oppertunity...

Sorry doctors wife i may have killed your thread!