Israel to build 1,600 more settler homes

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


So, from being a distorter of history, you came about to being a liar.
First, your chronology is distorted. Shamir was the first PM in rotation with Peres and before Rabin.
You hang on to Ben Ami as if your life depended on it. Simplistic to the bone !
Read what Ben Ami had to say, before posting more nonsense.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

After the Oslo agreements, Palestinian terror has raised its ugly head again. It was only during Netanyahoo's term, that the terror was in decline thanks to his hard line politics.
Shortly after the second camp David, the Palestinian terror once again widely spread throughout Israel. It was only during Sharon's term as PM that the Palestinian terror was defeated, at least for awhile.

“Judea and Samaria are not only Historical Jewish lands,”

SM -

“Irrelavent”

So it's up to you to decide how far back we delve in history. It's perfectly fine by you to stop in the early 20th century. I wonder why.

“well there is alot of room for statistical error. Especially since it won't incoporate an even pool of Western Palestinian Intelegentsia, poor-rural peasants, urban civillians and elite. The numbers you presented corrolate with views most likely held by the un-educated class.”

How do you know who did or didn't participate in that survey?

“I never said you wrote those numbers. I said that you said it was a West Bank survey when it is both a Gaza and West Bank survey.”

Really ? Here is the first paragraph from the article:

“73% of 1,010 Palestinians in W. Bank, Gaza agree with 'hadith' quoted in Hamas Charter about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones, trees.”

"They shouldn't have attacked Israel in the first place.”

SM-

"The usual retort. One that is both simplistic and irrational”.

Yes, it's that simple and rational. But I guess you only have a problem when Israel hits back.

"A demilitarized Palestinian state with a strong police force which would collaborate with the IDF to a) Curb terrorism and illegal border crossing and b) weaken Hamas”

That's exactly how things were, until Palestinian police forces began shooting at Israeli forces and joined forces with their brothers in arms of the Fatah.

"negotiate a peace which would allow you to maintain early warning outposts”.

Didn't we already agree you are not a strategic or military expert in any shape and form?

“I have always said it, that the Arabs are a strategical asset and Israel is a strategical liability. Simply look at the first Gulf war. The Arab coallition would have broken up if Israel was involved.”

Finally, you first honest response. Now we know exactly who you are. Yeah, Israel was a liability because it was attacked by SCUD missiles fro Iraq. ….lol


A friendly advice, just because i'm in a good mood.
I suggest you read a book called “the Abyss” by Eli Avidar. Maybe it will open your eyes just a little bit and teach you the mentality of the middle east, just in case you think it's like making peace between two western countries, and much more. I'm not blaming you for not knowing the ins and outs of the ME, I blame you for pretending to know. It just puts you in a ridicule light.

I am somewhat dismayed that while Israel has decided to build 1600 new settler homes that no one in the main stream media or alternative media has brought up another matter of great significant symbolism that has been placed directly into Tel Aviv Square as a show of force necessary to begin people thinking about what a Guillotine means in Tel Aviv square.

While some alternative media have given mention of this new development, I myself ponder if perhaps, Netanyahu is sending the type of message that has to be read between the lines or if somehow in the future,the refugees are going to do a repeat of France and elite to redress their social injustices.

Anyway, here is a link to a media source that describes in detail how a Guillotine was erected in Rothschild square for no apparent reason, or for perhaps a show of what is to come by those in government that indeed have a solution to protesting refugees.

iamamalaysian.wordpress.com...

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Originally posted by Maxmars
I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that those people authorizing the settlements don't really care about peace talks.... Is Israel overcrowded or something?

Are you familiar with the on going protests in Israel? Housing is a huge problem, one of them being the cost of one. So get more houses up, I'm sure is the attitude.

Actually it says so in the article, at the very top of the page,

Interior minister approves new construction in occupied East Jerusalem, linking them to country's economic protests.

If you're not familiar with the protests check out my ATS thread here for great videos
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Swills


The protests IMO are irrelevant, or should be..

If Australians needed more housing we wouldn't build houses in New Zealand..

reply to post by gravitational


Peres then Shamir (rotation) then Rabin then Peres then Shamir- my post was intentionally chronologically distorted, I was simply providing examples.
Secondly your source thevirtualjewishlibrary only posts 4 dates and small quotations on the 13th, 14th, 15th and 24th. So calling me simplistic would be hypocritical. None-the-less nothing you post detracts from the fact that Israel is to be blamed equally if not more (seeing they have the power and leverage in this negotiation) for the failure of achieving a peace settlement. I really don't mind, you can continue to stick your head in the sand and keep claiming that Israel can do no wrong. This kind of mentality will only see the demise of your state and people.

As backinblack pointed out, ancient history is off-topic. It was already been discredited to the point of laughter and using it as a basis for your argument shows dire desperation.

How do you know who did or didn't participate in that survey?

I don't, but I know that 1,010 people being interviewed is not a big enough pool to involve every class of persons from a population of over 4,000,000.

Yes, it's that simple and rational. But I guess you only have a problem when Israel hits back.

I don't have a problem when Israel strikes. I have gone on record to say that I would have acted the same as Israel on many occasions- minus Lebanon and the Syrian front in June 1967. Not to mention that the June 1967 war isn't as simple as you made it out to be and you know that, you just seem to omit the facts which you don't like due to your ideological standpoint.

Finally, you first honest response. Now we know exactly who you are. Yeah, Israel was a liability because it was attacked by SCUD missiles fro Iraq. ….lol

Buddy looking from a strategic view-point Israel is a liability. This dosen't suggest that America should withdraw support for the country, actually quite to the contrary, Israel needs a powerfull freind. What it does mean is that America should recognize it as such and shape its Middle East policy in such a manner. This is talking from a realist perspective and one of my favourite realist administrations was the Bush Snr administratoin. It achieved far more in terms of Middle Eastern stability and finding a solution to the Israel-Arab conflict then the next 3 administrations did combined.

Yes Iraq lauched SCUD missiles at Israel. This only goes to highlights the fact Israel is a strategical liability. Firstly the US had to offer Israel millions in aid to ensure it would not engage itself in the war. Saddam played his cards intelligently (although it was a cowardly and dispicable act). He created an anti-Zionist image of the Kuwait war and connected withdrawing from Kuwait with Israel withdrawing from Palestine. This made him a hero amongst the Arab world. As a result Bush promised to engage Israel evenhandedly in finding a solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict after Saddam was expelled from Kuwait (of course we know this failed once Bush lost the presidency). If Israel had joined into the coallition the Arabs and Muslim countries participating would have disolved from the coallition and enmity towards the US would have increased. From a realist perspective Arab Oil triumphs over Israel all day long. This isn't my view but unfortunately it is somthing you have to live with. The Iraq SCUD missiles just show how much more difficult it is to manouver with Israel weighing you down.

the Abyss” by Eli Avidar

I can't find it on Amazon. But on that note your understanding of the Arab world is no more enlightened than mine. I think this is best highlighted when I discuss Israels strategical liability. You see them simply as backwards, irrational and the enemy.

However, this will be my last reply. All future replies have to be strictly on topic (the article in question). Backinblack and the moderator both showed to me that you are once again derailing this thread. The question is the settlement not irrelevant ancient history. All future replies must be on topic or I won't even bother adressing them.

With all due respect, This is getting ridiculous.
What would be an on topic debate exactly?
People here use hit and run tactics. They accuse Israel of criminal behavior without even - for the sake of appearance – a shred of proof. History is in the very core and basis of the ME conflict. How can we discuss the rights and wrongs, truths and fairy tales without dealing with history?
Has it come now to shallow childish arguments ? It certainly seems suffice these days. “Israel is a criminal state” ...cheers mate star and flag. “Israel is the cause of all world's unrest” Right on buddy, star and flag. You can not post about “illegal” 1600 new houses and then reject every attempt to defend that action, just because it doesn't coincide with the poster's opinions.

Edit to add:
In 2010, Israel agreed to a ten months Settlement freeze, hoping that the PA will return to the negotiation table. Abbas stalled with every excuse in the book of excuses. When the “freeze” ended, what did Abbas demanded once again? That's right. Another settlement freeze.

In 2010, Israel agreed to a ten months Settlement freeze, hoping that the PA will return to the negotiation table. Abbas stalled with every excuse in the book of excuses. When the “freeze” ended, what did Abbas demanded once again? That's right. Another settlement freeze.

Firstly, define "freeze"...

Did Israel stop "all" construction of settlements???
NO, they merely stopped approving more for a time...
Big deal, not really a freeze....


Next, you keep leaving out the word "illegal" before settlement.
That's what they are to pretty much everyone except the Israeli Government and a few hard line extremists such as yourself..

Yes, I said "hard line extremists" and ANYONE that FORCES someone from THEIR LAND and bulldozes it to make room for a settlement from a foreign power IS A TERRORIST !!!

If they were Palestinians forcing Israelis from their homes etc. that's what they would be called..
Ohh, and they would be hunted down and shot...

reply to post by backinblack


There is no settlement in Judea and Samaria on private Palestinian land. Period.
The only one exception is a Settlement (hardy a few containers) called Ma'ale Migron, which the Israeli supreme court ruled for its removal.

You know the rest don't you? There never was a Palestinian land, state, kingdom or anything.
The name Palestina was given by the Romans and that is an historical undisputed fact. The name derived from the Plishtim, a red headed people who came from the Mediterranean sea who were connected to Greece of the 17th century bc.

Like I said, you share the same mentality. Start a war then whine for losing. Pathetic.

Like I said, you share the same mentality. Start a war then whine for losing. Pathetic.

The only war where major sections of land were stolen illegally by Israel was the 1967 war..

ISRAEL STARTED the war in 1967...THAT'S A FACT....
No borders can alter during wars as is written International LAW..

Israel continues to STEAL land through settlements even while saying they wish for peace..

No one buys their crap anymore, especially the Palestinians who have heard it all before..
Israel talks about pre 67 borders while this thread clearly shows they have ZERO intention of actually doing anything..

Talk is cheap and they don't come any cheaper than the Israeli Government..

So let's see, the Israeli people protest over housing costs, and now 1600 more homes are being built. My sympathy for the Israeli people is slowly going out the window if there is a connection between these two events. Now, it could be that those who need the homes do not get the new settlements, which just shows the corruption that they would make it seem like they would.

reply to post by backinblack


Israel launched a preemptive strike against Egypt.
Not Syria, Jordan, Lebanon or Iraq. EGYPT.
It has no relevance to Jordan who attacked Israel on June 5th 10:00. and therefor has no relevance to Judea and Samaria, Palestinians or settlements.
It is clear why you resort to lies, when there is absolutely nothing that can corroborate your claims.

And by the way. It's called the 1967 lines, not borders, and for a good reason.

Originally posted by gravitational

It is clear why you resort to lies, when there is absolutely nothing that can corroborate your claims.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Before your bickering over 'prior rights' get's this thread closed.

I find it interesting that the real estate and lending institutions in Israel are not more engaged with the government on making housing affordable and accessible to all of her citizens. Presumably Israel is overcrowded; something which I had not heard before.

Ostensibly, there have been discussions on why the cost of housing is so high.... especially so high that it would risk war, conflict, and death to build houses for people in the middle of a hotly contested area.

Part of me senses a lack of realistic information in simply accepting that as the answer.

But it's not my country, and what each side does is their own concern.

I will not be the one to declare that we ought to renege on America's oft-reaffirmed promise to stand with the Israeli's in her defense against any foe. I will however, say that if America is going to play the role of the older sibling protecting the younger, we should also apply the proper influence upon our younger sibling to dissuade them from repeatedly evoking our intercession...

As if the 1600 homes isn't enough...

The United States on Monday slammed Israel's decision to build 277 new housing units in Ariel.

The approval of construction permits in Ariel comes on the heels of Interior Minister Eli Yishai giving final authorization to build 1,600 apartments in Greater Jerusalem last week. He is expected to approve 2,700 more this week.

Does anyone REALLY believe anything Israel says

reply to post by backinblack


www.israelnationalnews.com...