Kenneth Arnold's erroneously reported sighting: The origin of flying saucer reports?

reply to post by A51Watcher


A51Watcher- I want to thank-you on solving the puzzle, whether Kenneth Arnold saw something other than disc shaped objects or not. The disinformation campaign,must have
started at the
very beginning of the UFO enigma; at least during the time of World War Two.

One WW2 German Messerschmitt pilot, took a picture of a flying disc.He was wounded at the time and took a picture of it thru his Leica camera. He was so inspired that he tried to develop on of these disc shape flying craft himself.
I forgot the German pilots name, but ATS member: Rengestorm knows him personally.

reply to post by Erno86


Thanks for the compliment Erno86, but I think you are far too generous. It's just a hunch and speculation on my part.

Like Pimander I also noticed the Arnold morphing description oddity, and that's the best guess I could come up with, based primarily on my own experience of also seeing discs that could not possibly be earthly technology, and then having to live with the repercussions of trying to warn your fellow humans about it, and also having to deal with ridicule, harassment and all the constant demands on your time (all for free of course). Thank gawd I don't have his celebrity or it would be a hundred times worse I would imagine.

The great link Kandinsky provided goes into much more detail providing everything you would ever want to know about Arnold's sighting.

March 30 1947 - Lutz, Florida - 11:00 A.M. EST

ORLANDO SENTINEL STAR (Florida) 7/6


Mrs. J. E. Harp, her seven-year-old daughter Sandra, and her mother Mrs. W. H. Brown saw several flying discs while driving. The discs were silvery colored and seemed to appear and disappear. They did not have time to count the number...

-continued-

Keep in mind these people did indeed report them to the newspapers on the day they happened, but before Arnold no papers had published any sightings. After his sighting made nationwide headlines, they all now decided to publish any previous sighting reports they had in their possession.

(I always include the newspaper publish date along with the sighting date, so you can see the lag time.)

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 1 1947 - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Night EST

GRAND RAPIDS HERALD (Michigan) 7/1


Mrs. Inez Nostrant observed numerous bright luminous plate-sized objects flying in groups of two's and four's as high as planes over Grand Rapids.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 2 1947 - Waverly, Iowa - 1:30 P.M. CST

WATERLOO COURIER (Iowa) 7/10


An inverted saucer-shaped disc of brilliant metal was sighted by John Laube and Fred Platte in Waverly.

It flew just above the top of a 180-foot grain elevator at Waverly Sugar Manufacturing Plant. They had it in sight for five minutes before it was obscured by trees as it flew away.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 17 1947 - Madison, Wisconsin - Evening CST

MILWAUKEE JOURNAL (Wisconsin) 7/1
WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL 7/7


Professor Emeritus from the University of Wisconsin Dr. E.B. McGilvery saw a bright round luminous object, about two-thirds the size of the full moon...

-quite rapid
-left no trail of light as a meteor does,
-did not appear to be fiery
-looked like an "illuminated body."
-heading to the northeast

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June 19 1947 - Cedar Rapids, Iowa - Night CST

DES MOINES REGISTER (Iowa) 7/8


From his back yard, R.D. Taylor spotted eight to ten discs which were lighted from within as they zoomed over Cedar Rapids.

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June 20 1947 - Kelso, Washington

OREGONIAN (Portland) 6/28


Flying Saucer Story Grows

Mrs. Jerry Neels said she saw "bright and shiny" discs south of Kelso on the 20th.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 22 1947 - Greenfield, Massachusetts - 11:30 A.M. EST

US-AAF File - Weekly Intelligence Summary, ATC 7/30


Edward L. de Rose reported seeing a "brilliant, round-shaped silvery-white object" moving in a northwesterly direction over Greenfield.

It traveled at a high rate of speed somewhere at around 1,000 feet of altitude and "streaked across the sky" in a matter of only eight to ten seconds before vanishing from view.

He felt certain the mysterious craft could not have been a balloon and represented something very real when later filing this report with the A-2 section of Army Intelligence of the Atlantic Division.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 22 1947 - Portland, Oregon - 4 P.M. PST

OREGON JOURNAL (Portland) 6/30


Lads Declare They Saw "Flying Disks"

Two boys Sunday said they saw "flying disks" speeding southeast of the Lambert Gardens shortly after 4 pm.

John Waymire and Freddie Hodge, both 13, telephoned the Journal that they observed the "disks" dipping and flashing in the sun.

They were flying very high, according to the boys, and appeared larger than a plane soaring near the earth.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

June 23 1947 - Hazel Green, Alabama

HUNTSVILLE TIMES (Alabama) 7/1


E.B. Parks and a dozen other witnesses saw two illuminated discs fly at terrific speed low over Hazel Green.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

There are also many reports from people that came forward after Arnold's sighting that saw flying discs or saucers before his sighting, but stated they kept it to themselves until they saw he came forward, for fear people would think they were crazy. They stated they stepped forward to back him up and vouch for what he saw. Several were very prominent people who were in fear of losing their reputations and jobs.

But since they came forward -after- Arnold, I considered them to be off- topic for the purposes of this thread and did not include.

One interesting postscript to all the newspaper sighting reports from back then that I don't think I've ever mentioned before is - each news clipping begins with not only the witnesses names, but their entire addresses as well.

Keep in mind that anyone calling the newspaper with a disc report back then was well aware of this and the resulting risk and repercussions involved.

I remove those addresses as a matter of course in any sighting report I have ever posted. However I have used the ones in my town here to help me contact many of either the still living witnesses or the remaining family members of the witness to get any further details if possible, as well as any perspective they may have had or gained.

The experience is a real eye popper every time. Anyone who wants to go to their own library and do the same to witnesses in their town is in for a real eye opener believe me. The people of this generation do not mince words and will bluntly tell you in no uncertain terms what they saw in much more detail than was provided by a short news clipping.

I have become friends with many of them (including the cops lol), sharing a common bond and perspective on things of course.

reply to post by seabhac-rua

...I saw a grey saucer-like object emerge...

Great find seabhac-rua, from WWII

Thanks for sharing that! Please pass along any more you may find.


And if you find any that may be off topic for this particular thread they would be most welcome on my pre- Roswell thread.

Originally posted by Pimander

Palmer-Letter-Arnold-Crisman-Island. What you say?

I say -that- can of worms definitely leads way off topic. Crisman creeps me out, ever seen a pic of him? lol.

And being mixed up in the metal slag mess and then being interviewed by Brown and Davidson just before the plane went down... Yikes!

...and Palmer repackaging the Shaver material into a publishable work with the teros and deros? Oh no please. A lot of people bought into that one though, can you believe it? Rocks too even and still people bit.

"Amazing Stories" indeed.

Originally posted by Erno86
One WW2 German Messerschmitt pilot, took a picture of a flying disc.He was wounded at the time and took a picture of it thru his Leica camera. He was so inspired that he tried to develop on of these disc shape flying craft himself.
I forgot the German pilots name, but ATS member: Rengestorm knows him personally.

I'd like to contact the pilot, if he is still alive.... Do you know whether he has been properly interviewed about the incident?

There is no member called Rengestorm from what I can make out? Can you remember which member knows him?

Sorry to pester you. The potential for an important interview is there, if this case has not been covered in detail before.

Spaceship stops for repairs - northern Saskatchewan, 1933

1933 - Spaceship Stops for Repairs

The craft was oval with a domed top and slightly rounded base.

Note: My mother lived in northern Saskatchewan and had an encounter with aliens/"little green men" (who were not green), about the time of the above sighting. She described them as small humanoids wearing silvery suits and some type of helmet or balaclava.

She spoke often of this encounter and never changed her story. (She didn't see any craft though).

reply to post by Pimander


I'm so sorry, that I mispelled Regenstorm- ATS member.

I can tell you the name of the German pilot in a couple of days.

I bought a video that had a English translation of his flying disc experience; along with an excellent black and white picture of the flying saucer.

Name of video, that I bought at an antique gun show here in the U.S.- UFO's of the Third Reich

reply to post by A51Watcher

I have to hand it to you mate. Superb. A lot of this might have been lost in the mists of disinformation and denial without you.

Have you got photocopies or scans of all the newspaper reports you have mentioned on your "Day Before Roswell" thread and this one?

Originally posted by Erno86
reply to post by Pimander

 

I bought a video that had a English translation of his flying disc experience; along with an excellent black and white picture of the flying saucer.

Name of video, that I bought at an antique gun show here in the U.S.- UFO's of the Third Reich.

Sorry, I misunderstood. He must have been interviewed already. I'll try to hunt down the video myself but his name would be useful so I can get hold of a copy of the photograph.

Thanks for the info all the same. I was concerned that the incident might not have been documented - especially if it happened during the war.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

Don't mean to be raggin on ya man

The shape of the object in the old picture is a classic UFO shape. Fair play to you for digging up the picture of the street lamps, but it does not prove the original photo is a lamp, it might be a lamp, it might not. The caption says there were no street lamps there at that time, yeah I see what looks like a pole in the distance, but where are the rest of the street lamps? The picture you posted shows lamps that look like flying saucers, that's all.

well if its a lamp it must be 50 or 100 ft in the air and i believe in those days the poles were under 20 ft

reply to post by bluestreak53

Thanks, bluestreak53. Another good one.

It's completely clear that specifically, saucer like disks were not that rare before the coining of the term "flying saucers."

I know lots of UFO buffs have said so before but it's great to collect together a heap of examples. Thanks to everyone who has posted examples so far, especially A51. This is going to help to destroy an illusion that some folks buy into.

I will pull them all together at some point soon into an Opening Post. Not sure of the format yet though so I'm open to suggestions.

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by A51Watcher

 

Have you got photocopies or scans of all the newspaper reports you have mentioned on your "Day Before Roswell" thread and this one?

Thanks... and yes I have photocopies of all of them in my OP, and most of the ones listed in this one, and some were found by Loedding and Bloecher.

When you view microfiche reels at the library, any that you find of interest - you just pop a quarter in and a photocopy is made directly from the reel. Some libraries even do them for 10 cents each, it varies from state to state, city to city.

It's a bit of an eerie feeling really, anytime you pay a visit somewhere new and begin turning the reels. When the sighting reports start showing up, more and more every day, you can't help really but turning around to see if anyone is looking over your shoulder. lol

A report from Maj. Donald Keyhoe makes a point relevant to this thread, in that I don't see how Arnold's sighting could have influenced the imagination of a theodolite tracking and recording device.

July 8 1947 at Muroc Air Force Base, where TS planes and devices are tested, six fast moving silvery-white saucers were seen by pilots and ground officers.

Both a Navy rocket expert (Dr. Robert B. McLaughlin) and an engineer (Charles B. Moore) who were there, each independently reported the same incident at White Sands where they had seen four saucers in that area.

The first saucer was tracked by White Sands observers with a theodolite. Then they worked out it's performance with ballistics formulas as being fifty miles up and making over fifteen thousand mph.

reply to post by Pimander


Title of video- UFO Secrets of the Third Reich- All rights held by- Total Solutions International- Royal Atlantis Film- GmbH

Here are some quotes from the video- Former German fighter pilot and flight designer of flying discs: Andreas Epp-

"After that I drove into the hills, just outside of Praque, where the secret testing ground was supposed to have been located.

I had my Leica 'A' camera with me when suddenly I saw such a flying saucer. I was wounded at the time, so I know it was November or December; although the test flight was not supposed to take place until the following Feburary.

Someone had made an unsheduled test flight; and this is what I saw coming towards me. It had no wings, absolutely none. I took a photo and wound up the film; but it was already directly over me, and I took a second photo and I could see it was a flying gyroscope- a flying saucer."

Photos were taken during daylight- Two excellent photos of a flying saucer.

You can see the interview and photo's Epp took on- Andreas Epp- Nazi UFO's myth- YouTube

Hiya,

not sure if you've had this one posted on the thread (didnt click every single link yet)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3447827c6503.jpg[/atsimg]

1929 - SlideWard - Colorado Ward Sawmill, April - This incident is retold by the photographers daughter: "This photo was taken by my father Edward Pline at the sawmill in Ward where we lived at the time. I think it was 1929. I was about six years old then. My father was there to photograph the sawmill for some reason or another, and as he was taking the photo, he described a 'terrible thunderous bellow,' and a large round thing as big as a very large boulder that moved through the air above them. You can see it in the picture. "None of the sawmill workers saw the thing in the photo, but they all heard the sound and felt the ground shudder. Later in my life I tried researching the incident at the County Historical Society, but I did not find any references to it. My father passed on a few years after the incident, and I have not found any surviving sawmill workers from that time." Hetty Pline

link to more pics of other ufo's

Im not saying I believe it to be an object not of this world but it's a disk/saucer shaped photo from 1929....

reply to post by Versa


Very nice Versa!

I had not seen that before. Thanks for sharing!