What punishment is sufficient for the ones acting in the riots in the UK?

Originally posted by MollyStewart

Originally posted by Diyainoue
First of all, I am talking about these riots where civilians are attacking and damaging civilians that are in the same snip. They would have gained more respect if they brought it to Buckingham Palace on the first day (If anyone does I offer 20 pounds for a painting)

I understand that the damages need to be paid by, again, civilians. Maybe in taxes or a raise in insurance, you get what I mean. I don't like it, but ok, I will support my fellow civilians. I would appreciate it If they will support me if I would be a victim.

What about the punishments? I don't like the idea I have to pay for their punishments, either in jail or community services. I don't expect the ones participating in the riots financially capable of paying their debts. So what could be the best punishments. I had a discussion today about this and an intresting punishment came up.

It is not a good punishment, yes you punish them,but it would give lots of troubles too, pushing them in an illegal life, so we enforce differences again.

Here is the punishment:

According to their role in the riots, people get different durations of punishment, that will be an temporary tattoo on cheeks and forehead, hands (where-ever as long as you can't hide them) for a couple of months or years. The whole society can put them out of their shops, clubs, public transport, etc. Judge people on the color of their marks not their skin.

The problems that automatically follow is that some of them will proudly wear them as trophies, but they cannot hide it anymore. As you push them out of society, well I guess ATS is smart enough I don't need to explain the problems of that.

I am curious what the members of ATS think that could work as a fine and a little jail time will not be sufficient in my eyes.

edit on 9-8-2011 by Diyainoue because: (no reason given)

As most of these young people are out of work due to a sluggish economy and government mismanagement, why not have them work on infrastructure. Maintaining roads, planting trees, gardening council land and nature strips, working for charities , helping old people etc. Make it compulsory, just don't call it community service. Keeping them busy may stop them from rioting in the streets, damaging and looting their own communities. If these young guns really wanted to make a statement they could have started a riot out the front of no.10 instead of the local shop. Not too bright but they can text organize an instant army in a pinch!!

*shakes head*

What you are saying sounds a lot like slavery to me. Does that make sense? Why take 5 steps forward to take 18 steps backwards?

As country you need to redefine your class system and distribution of wealth... Just like here in the USA... This needs to be a world wide movement...

We can achieve equality and a fair chance at the pursuit of happiness through non-violence "in most cases."

What punishment is sufficient for the ones acting in the riots in the UK?

Freedom.

Nobody can deny the fact that these people did something extreme and they have to be punished accordingly. However, as long a country have laws, the punishment cannot go outside of what's stated by those laws.
Anyways, in the same time, one should ask "why? how could this happen?" because, despite of the destruction of public goods, loots and robberies, there are some deep reasons behind this.
The crowd is acting instinctual, you can't ask a bunch of disorganized, angry people to behave like political activists but nobody can deny that the there are real reasons behind all of this: poverty, unemployment, a defective immigration law, hunger in some cases, a lot of frustration accumulated in time, waiting only to explode.

Mind me, I don't agree with them, I think they must be severely punished but in the same time, I can't stop asking myself: are they the only ones who deserve punishment? England represents - for me at least - a country with a strong tradition of democracy and correctness but in the last years they push it too far, IMO. Cameras in every corner, reverse discrimination, a politically correctness pushed up until became absurd, all these were established with one purpose: to keep everyone in place, minding their own business but it seems they failed.
That's why I'm asking: are the rioters the only ones who deserve punishment? Or the situation is going upper, on high levels and the government can be blamed for a totally defective social policy?

When you go to the doctor telling him you have a severe headache, he doesn't offer you to get rid of the ache by decapitation, but instead he is looking for a cause behind it.

My two cents...

reply to post by shansen



You site 'hunger' as one of the reasons for the roiters?

Since when have plasma TV's, electronic gadgets, and alcohol assuaged the pangs of

hunger?


And as for camera's on every corner.........well without SECURITY CAMERA's NONE of the

perpetrators would get caught! If you are an 'innocent' just going about your every day

business camera's of any sort shouldn't prove a problem they are there for your PROTECTION.

reply to post by Diyainoue


take the victim around to their house and let them loot it free of anything of value and then make the family stand on the street while it is burned down and smashed up.

if it is fun for the looters and rioters they should enjoy every moment of it without complaint.

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by shansen

 

You site 'hunger' as one of the reasons for the roiters?

Since when have plasma TV's, electronic gadgets, and alcohol assuaged the pangs of

hunger?

And as for camera's on every corner.........well without SECURITY CAMERA's NONE of the

perpetrators would get caught! If you are an 'innocent' just going about your every day

business camera's of any sort shouldn't prove a problem they are there for your PROTECTION.

No, no... don't misunderstand me. I have talking about the reasons behind all of these, they are deeper than they look like.
As for the cameras, they were put in place to prevent such things, right? But they failed, as it seems.
And of course they're stealing plasma TVs, alcohol and electronic gadgets; they are also stealing clothes, sweets and food. They steal everything they can because they are a crowd; what do you expect? A crowd will always be a crowd, no matter what. This is not an organized protest, it is a expression of frustration and deep social unrest.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
If the householder is evicted then i agree, but still, i dont feel it does much good to make families homeless, looters need to be taught a lesson but this one seems a little ill thought out.

To be honest, I couldn't give a toss. If they feel it is ok to behave in this manner, then i feel it's ok to turf them out of free housing and make them pay their own way. Maybe then they will realise that life isn't about getting up at lunch, watching Jermey Kyle and robbing old ladies.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
And if you work FT, pay your tax and pay for your council housing then it should not be seen as a privilege, but a right. If you want people to work you do have to provide housing - Industrial revolution is proof of this.

Nobosy is entitled to housing and most people either buy or rent their own. The only people who should get the housing are those in genuine need and abide by the law. I myself rent my own home and I am not even on the social housing list, as I think others are in more of a need than I am.

reply to post by shansen


Dont be ridiculous. Those "poor" people of Britain have computers, TVs, new iPhones and designer clothes, and generous welfare every month. You dont know what poverty is in Britain, people on welfare there live like middleclass here. I am really really pissed off when I see these looters with iPhones and designer clothes destroying property of hardworking people claiming they can because they are "poor", while poor people over here in Slovakia have problems getting enough money to buy food or pay utility bills at the end of the month.

They are criminals, nothing more.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Say's the American

A country where you can be shot for simply coming out of a nightclub or running from the Police. A country that, until recently, segregated people based upon the colour of their skin and still victimises them. A country where, in living memory, soldiers have been called out to shoot unarmed, non-violent anti-war protesters...

I've got more...

Originally posted by shansen
As for the cameras, they were put in place to prevent such things, right? But they failed, as it seems.

No, actually. They were put in place so that perpetrators can be ID'd and caught. They serve as a mild deterrent, but that is not their purpose. At any rate, I think you're overplaying the CCTV thing, 95% of all CCTV in the UK is privately owned and used in shops, garages etc. The same as in the US. Very few CCTV camera's are actually monitroed and those that are you will find in town centres and actually are very useful.

Originally posted by shansen
they are also stealing clothes, sweets and food.

No, they're not. designer clothes, yeah, but they aren't running rampant. In one area of London, they hit the Curry's (electronic store), the high-end fashion chain store but left a Waterstones untouched.

Other area's have seen grocery stores hit, but they;ve only taken booze, fags and nibbles. They're actually, as far as the looting is going, fairly well organised and targetting specific shops for specific goods which they either want themselves or can sell at a tidy profit.

reply to post by shansen




Whilst there are thugs, thievies, arsonist's, etc. about it is impossible to STOP (prevent)

their random anti social illegal activities. Therefor the next best thing is to be able to identify

them in their illegal activities so they can be prosecuted..........pity the courts are so feeble

in dealing with them!


Surely even a five year old has been taught and is aware that it is wrong to help themselves

to someone else's property STEALING whether it is solo or in a gang.

reply to post by asl911


100% agree with everything you said, I do feel that we are on the brink of civil war. I think it will be a spark from something that seriously affects the British working men and women, something that will simply push them over the edge, where the majority can bascially no longer make a living. It will more than likely be linked to increase in taxation etc etc, a harsh budget, or harsher. It will be something where bascially it equals the end of the Middle Class and the working class falling totally in to poverty. We really aren't that far from it.

To who ever said the looters need to be deported or get the death sentence.............are you for real?

That makes me sick!! Human life is worth less than the material things they robbed??

What a bunch of F***ING HYPOCRYTES..

I was there, In the middle of the riot, it was mainly youths trying to get their hands on goods.

The same youths that HAVE been NEGLECTED by the government and society.

NO I DO NOT CONDONE THE LOOTING OR ANYTHING THAT HAS ESCALATED FROM IT SINCE.

But to blame it all on the youths who just want some free cash and goodies.....nahhh, its not that simple.

Let alone I believe the government practically orchistrated it. As I say, I was there in the middle of it, observing, the feds knew what they were doing, they were barely anywhere to be seen stopping anyone.......in there absense they ENCOURAGED IT.

Because after all this, the gov can turn round and say they have substantial reason to enforce their NWO laws.

They used the news to make it sound like something it wasnt, and now there manipulating the people to start race wars and civil unrest between its own people.

I was there I saw it, These kids are guilty of jumping on the band waggon....being opprtunists........and can you blame them? Most fall into my class, raised on a council estate, negleted by the education and social system, they've left school....and now what? I personally am currently working, for a measley £80 a week to gain my self an NVQ. Try living of that!!

As I say I dont condone the "riots", but look at the people in charge of this country before judge an ENTIRE GENERATION.....is it their fault the country dont care about them? You didnt care before, you just labelled them
"Yobs" "Thugs" "Youths" "Scum"..........you spent so much time thinking of ways to alienate them, you didnt get to the route of the problem, you neglected them.....and still their lives are worth NOTHING?

I've heard alot of people telling them to go a be proper big boys, and if they want to act hard, go fight in Afgan like out "Brave" Soldiers are doing. Now I know ATS is aware of thet BS propaganda, cuz all we are doing over there is raping Afgan for the Elite. But all these average joes are quick to jump the gun, tell OUR YOUTH there worth nothing and prove it by go killing the "Taliban".

"Deportation or death"

Get real.

reply to post by Sinny


Typical nonsense..

"We were neglected by the Government and Society" (where are the parents in this?)

"the school system let us down" (what, you mean you didn't learn anything while dicking around in class?)

"the Government doesn't give us the opportunity".(what, you haven't been given your Government work assignment? Oh, sorry comrade...)

Then why aren't we all like that? Plenty of people manage to navigate the school system, use benefits as intended and make their way in life. A significant minority don't, yet blame "the system" for their own failures.

There is only so much that the State, Society and "the system" can do. The bulk of lifes choices are your own and it's time people took responsibility for their own actions and destiny.

reply to post by Sinny



Your quote* What makes me sick!! Human life is worth less than the material things
they robbed.


Well what do you say about the three youths who were killed? the student who was mugged
whilst dazed from being injured? and the people who had to jump from a building which had
been set alight by those rioters/arsonists?


Your quote* The same youths that HAVE been NEGLECTED by the government and society


The government is there to run the country NOT to 'wet nurse' the 'poor me's' who never took
advantage of the FREE EDUCATION that was available to each and every one of them. They
want to be treated as adults but take NO RESPONSIBILITY for themselves


Your quote* The feds knew what they were doing


You've been watching too much Americian TV we don't have feds in the UK.
The rioters are not an 'ENTIRE GENERATION' they ARE YOBS THUGS and SCUM, because
i know many young people who are unemployed OR in jobs which don't pay well (but look on
it as the first step on the ladder) and some doing TWO part time jobs and they would NEVER
contemplate rioting.


'OUR YOUTH' are worth the price they put on themselves, as i mentioned before i know many
young people who are PRICELESS....................and then there are the "poor me thugs" who
think the world owe's them a living it is them that sell themselves short

reply to post by AgnarDaGr8


i think there is a limit to tolerence within society, when this threshold is breeched, good honest law abiding people no longer wish to financially support or socially support or culturally support what is hurting or offending them, making these ferile parasites that go out to hurt and cause pain the disposable class, yes, disposable, we no longer want them in our community.

that is why people are happy to mark them with an identifer that will write that persons future of being discarded to perish.

this all sounds very harsh and brutal, but if you got the solutions, you'll become rich, famous and run the country! but 15 years of lawless ferile labour supporting families who sponge benifits, flawt the law in very aspect of their lives, human rights(EU) bs protecting them, rap music that constantly and violently incites hate, dis-respect and crime, shoved down our throats 24/7 by license endorsed radio (BBC 1xtra) channels and TV media not to mention violent realist videogames.

And you wonder why society is the way it is. peace and freedom is not the product of violence, nor it's by-product.

i here you screaming, stop slapping rap music, it's not what caused these issues! but hey, let's look into the mind of these rioters for a moment, when :

these rioters smashed there way into a HMV music store, they took all the rap and R&B cd's and dvd's and left all other music sections untouched,
these people have taken our livelyhoods, our businesses, our economy, our pride.
these people steal and falsely claim benifits, yet blame bankers for having no money, no future.
these people take drugs,get high and then steal your car, hit and kill a 4 year old child and flea from the scene in your car, with no remorse for what they cause or what they have done.
these people kill toddlers cos they iritated them and interupted there drug party or cried over an episode of coronation street.
these people left a young boy to bleed to death, on his own in a stairwell of flats, people passed little damiola and didnt help, damiola died alone missing his mum and dad.
these people stabbed to death a school teacher over a trivial issue outside the school.
these people set fire to a family home, not caring that children were asleep upstairs, a 9 month old and a 7 yr old girl burnt to death alone, fire services tried there best.
these people think it's funny to randomly select a member of public to beat up for entertainement
these people break into the home's of frail,elderly defenceless war hero's, people who fought and died for our freedom, the thanks they get? a near beating to death, 6 months in hospital and missing their life savings.
these people shoot BB guns at toddler and blind him in one eye, killed another, and countless cats and dogs have come to harm and a painful death.

all this pain and torture forced upon innocent, law abiding, honest, working, loving people, both young and old and for what? all these crimes have destroyed lives up and down the country, those that are alive are walking with the memory of a lifetime of trauma.

they all listen to rap, urban and R&B music, these people. not just a co-incidence!

reply to post by Diyainoue


Send them to work in what remains of Somlalian hosptials as skud bucket emptiers and floor cleaners for a year, each and every one.


Simple.

reply to post by Rosha


beautifully put, then these people will really know what poverty is and that their feble existence in the UK doesn't even come close.

either that, bring all the inpoverished starving people of somalia, ethiopia and kenya to the UK and send all these ferile parasites to starve in somalia, ethiopia and kenya. at least the people of somalia, ethiopia and kenya will happily contribute to society, work hard and teach good morals.

reply to post by AgnarDaGr8

What you are saying sounds a lot like slavery to me. Does that make sense? Why take 5 steps forward to take 18 steps backwards? As country you need to redefine your class system and distribution of wealth... Just like here in the USA... This needs to be a world wide movement... We can achieve equality and a fair chance at the pursuit of happiness through non-violence "in most cases."

A punishment is not slavery. The question was: "What punishment is sufficient for the ones acting in the riots in the UK".
Engaging young people to be active in their communities is what I consider a proactive measure against youth rioting and crime. It is still a service to the community but at the same time not only keeps the youth active but also helps to create a community awareness they may have been lacking due to the sense of hopelessness they find themselves in due to current economics. Not sure how that could be considered slavery?
This will not change the current economic climate nor address the ever widening gap between classes but this was not the question. If the question had been about economics rather than punishing criminals then sure, equality and wealth redistribution is a valid point. I doubt those already in positions of wealth and power would consider it though.

Originally posted by Sinny
T
I was there, In the middle of the riot, it was mainly youths trying to get their hands on goods.

The same youths that HAVE been NEGLECTED by the government and society.

Yeah yeah - I know that is the story the left has too push in order to be able to deny that these 'youths' are the direct result of decades of their policies -same as in all US large cities under exclusive Democrat care for decades - they never accept the results of their policies either.

This comment from someone who lives there sums it up pretty well though!


[

JohnOfEnfield

As you can see - I live in Enfield which is only a few miles from Tottenham - and we had our share of this rioting. So allow me to make some points: - The drivers are as follows : -

We prohibit drugs - just as you do in the US. We therefore have a "war on drugs". We have therefore created a superb underground distribution system which makes profits of hundreds of millions of pound each year. The competing gangs are honed to perfection - they use young fit men on BMX (small) bikes to deliver the goods and communicate via the internet and Blackberry messaging (each gang member has two phones a Blackberry and an iPhone for backup). These gangs are geographically based and have up to 400 members.

Stabbing with a knife is used to cow the population and enforce discipline. The police - which have been highly politicised under our Marxist New Labour government - have completely failed to address the problem of these gangs. I know headmasters who will state that whilst they can impose discipline inside the school gates they cannot get the police to do anything outside the schools. So we get tens of stabbings of teenage children each year. So the gangs rule with impunity.

A known gang leader with a loaded gun was killed by an armed policeman (still rare in the UK) in a special unit last Thursday. His family tell us that "the police have a lot of questions to answer" and request that the rioting which started after they held a peaceful vigil outside the police station in Tottenham should not be done in their name.

These well trained gangs start rioting and looting in Tottenham (they were now combined against one common enemy - the police) and immediately discover that the police have absolutely no way of dealing with them - because the police have never engaged with them nor tried to shut them down. It was fascinating to watch the rioters on BMX bikes and on foot completely outwitting the plodding police (a derogatory name for a policeman is a "plod"). The rioters used their skills and capability to perfection.

Rioting and looting was so successful that everyone joined in and queued up (it could only happen in Britain) to loot sports shops, jewellers, shops selling alcohol etc. One woman was photographed trying on her loot for size until she got what she wanted.

www.americanthinker.com...


As for punishment - too late for that really, you are looking at entire wasted generstions, you wll never reform these kids into usefull adults.