Our Troops do NOT Protect Our Freedom and We Should Stop Thanking Them for Doing So

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by juveous


Say what? I didn't blindly believe what I was told, in fact most of my marine buds kept what was told in question, however because of contract and the conditions of which we signed up, the chain of command puts us in a position to follow lawful orders, not blindly believe.

So every order given is "lawful"? That's a load of garbage....

Or are you trying to say that since someone in authority issues an order, it is always lawful, therefore the SS commanders issuing orders for massacre were also lawful, therefore morally correct?

Who said every order given was lawful? I was addressing the misconception of "blindly believe, vs. doing what you are told because it is lawful." - you are allowed to question unlawful orders, even disobey them and fight your court martial case

This is a very simple question. And this is also the central focal point of the problem that is making people very upset with the status quo.

Everything is very circumstantial to the knowledge of the ones that carry out the order, the intelligence in reason for the order given and the whether anyone is emotionally/mentally compromised during the order. You really can't basket all cases together

Originally posted by seedofchucky
Now can you reply with something of substance?

What?

Like this kind of crap you're spewing?

"The troops are nothing more then human meat shields ..."

Or shall i pull out my stick?

You can pull anything you want out...
Just as long as you're not afraid of losing it!

I don't like insulting soldiers, it pisses me off because I don't like making enemies when instead we should be having a BBQ with the neighborhood.

But damit things are getting really hot in here and we need some relief. I implore all soldiers please think about what I have asked.

Please think about taking action to make things right. To stop the criminals who run things from getting away with all of this stuff.

Hell use the spy equipment , record their crime, and just release it on ATS from a net-cafe or something, while wearing a mask and using gloves etc. Cover all your tracks.

But please, we need action, before it is too late.

I want the soldiers to be friends and help their countrymen and to take down the overlords.

After you come home from the war, do you really want to come home to a Ghetto with no freedoms left at all?

It's heading that direction.

Let's think about this long and hard. Please.

I've never met a person with more honor, dignity, dedication than the American soldier.

For all you who are enjoying this G.I. bash-fest, I pity your small and shallow lives.

reply to post by kro32

Yes that is what I mean by effective. That is what war is about after all and you've kind of proved my point by referencing the Nazi's. You must follow orders to be effective and if you have people that are allowed to question orders and pick and choose what actions they want to take you will not have an army that is effective at killing.

Therein lies the problem, Kro32. Humanity has been indoctrinated with this notion that we have to kill to solve problems. We shouldn't need humans who are "effective at killing." When countries of the world evolve enough to understand that war has not worked on this planet--it has only caused grief, pain, and destruction--then we won't need to have brainwashed men and women who act on command like a bunch of God damned robots and who are absolved of the responsibility of putting value on human life.

By allowing themselves to be used as a pawn for the military, these troops are allowing our leaders to scar them forever. Our soldiers are the ones that have to live with the guilt of killing other human beings.....not our politicians....not the war profiteers. Why do our troops put themselves in this position....especially when time and time again, we see that the government fails to take proper care of these vets after the fact?

In my opinion, any American who signs up for the military at this stage in the game, considering the past decade of lies our government has told to get us into war, will be viewed by me as a murderer. I'm sorry. This thread prompts me to say this because, in my opinion, it is completely ignorant to sign up for the military these days, knowing you're going to likely see battle, without having done any research into why you're going to be asked to kill another human being.

Apparently, the government has successfully convinced many young people that the patriotic thing to do is sign up for the military, regardless of why they might be used. Patriotism is standing up for the people of America and protecting them! Patriotism does not mean being BLIND to government lies!

reply to post by muzzleflash

I don't like insulting soldiers, it pisses me off because I don't like making enemies when instead we should be having a BBQ with the neighborhood. But damit things are getting really hot in here and we need some relief. I implore all soldiers please think about what I have asked. Please think about taking action to make things right. To stop the criminals who run things from getting away with all of this stuff.

I CONCUR!

"first and foremost do not question why just Do or die, ho raw!" or "Troop i gave you an direct order now do it, or i'll hang you @$$ my self" or the best one" Sir with all do respect , what your ordering me to do is not right" now how many have said the line and are still in? yes you have the right to not fallow orders and report unlawful ones, but we are seeing more and more actions that have been fallowed because of the order, not the questioning. if a CO gives you an direct order, you do, you do not think, is it right? No but then in war, nothing is right.
There are articles and steps in place to prevent such things, they are seldom used, pass the buck you might say, and it is the low man / woman to get the blame. you do not get points for making waves, you get them by fallowing orders.
If the mil (all mil US and them), started question all orders from the privet up. no one would be killed for not a shot would be fired. or would there be?

I'd comment more on this thread.

But it seems to have become a collection of assumption, misinformation, and unproven conspiracy.
ATS will agree with anything as long as it goes against current thinking.

Deny ignorance. Hardly shown in this thread.

We are a civilian led military. Everything we do we do at the behest of the US government(civilians). If you feel that we are not currently fighting for your freedoms I am okay with that but believe me, we will when the time comes. I have seen up close the people who consider themselves the enemy of this country and you will want us on your side when the enemy does arrive at your door step. All of your anti-war, peace loving stuff won't protect you from the real killers out there, your military will.

reply to post by Miraj

But it seems to have become a collection of assumption, misinformation, and unproven conspiracy.

Excuse me, but what assumptions, misinformation, and unproven conspiracy? Please explain.

It is a PROVEN fact that the war in Iraq was based on lies. Bush admitted there were no weapons of mass destruction. He also admitted Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. There are countless other facts out there to support this. This is not a conspiracy theory....it is a conspiracy FACT. As far as the other numerous wars that we are involved in, can you please prove to me how any one of them is being fought for our freedom? Can you tell me if any one of them has been successful in doing anything but creating more hatred toward the U.S.?

Sure is good to hear I am not the only one that feels our military is being used improperly.

There is no one who could be more patarotic than I am.
I would die for my country.

But I still am waiting for an answer I can understand as to why we are invading other countries and killing their citizens.

Whose army are we Americans going to call to help us protect our freedoms from a government hell bent on taking away our rights?

I am not bashing our brave service men.
We will always need a strong military to protect us from invaders.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." -Henry Kissinger

Never gets old. Even when the horse's mouth admits what they're doing, people still go along with the charade.

Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it. -David Rockefeller

You beat me to it.

Do not forget most of this guys are 17 and 18 years old and sky high on testosterone. Do you really think the elite WANT them here at home while they scuttle the US economy and drive the country to her knees????

I do not at all blame these guys who have gone into military serve thinking they have done the right thing. At least they are not doing what the youth in London are doing, torching their own back yards.

A word of warning: DO NOT bash the rank and file military for being lead around by the nose by the likes of Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller. The rest of the country, most of whom are a lot older and therefore are SUPPOSED to be wiser, fall for the crap spun by the eilte on a daily basis and blasted over the MSM.

You can acknowledge their service to the country while you condemn the wars and the poor leadership that got us into them in the first place.

Alienating these man and women at this point in time is just plain suicidal in my opinion. Remember THEY are the ones who have been there and THEY KNOW they have been HAD!

Originally posted by NightGypsy


It is a PROVEN fact that the war in Iraq was based on lies. Bush admitted there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Go to the Chemical Weapons Convention webpage and do some reading.

Iran filed a protest because the United States BOMBED the Chemical Weapons Bunkers in Iraq. Per the Treaty those Chemical Weapons were supposed to be destroyed SAFELY.

Here is the US response to Iran's filed protest, go to Page 5:

www.opcw.org...

So Iraq DID have Chemical Weapons....and they were likely OURS. Provided to Iraq when they were our buddies to stop Iran/Russia if they tried to come over Iraq. We likely didn't have the $$$$ to safely dispose of our chemical weapons so......destroy them with BOMBS.


Libya has chemical weapons as you can read about on the Chemical Weapons Convention webpage. Are they OURS? Maybe to save money we destabilize Libya....hope the rebels break them out? If not we will bomb those chemical weapons to save $$$$....costs to safely dispose of them?


Wasn't there something on the news where NATO just bombed some chemical something in Libya?....

Our poor military breathed in those Chemical Weapons that were bombed in Iraq. Weren't even told about it. Isn't that sad?

Did you read on the Chemical Weapons Convention website the US filed a notice we refuse to destroy our entire chemical weapons stockpile by April 2012?

Originally posted by k21968
reply to post by wcitizen

 

My husband served 22 yrs as a military police narcotics/explosives dog handler in the US ARmy. He retired last April.

I, of course, disagree with you. I thank him everyday for his selfless service.

For our family, it was join the military or be a drain on society and draw welfare because there are no jobs in our little appalachian hometown. He did it to earn his money.

You are entitled to your opinion, because the blood of many soldiers gave you that right.

I respect your right to have a different opinion.

With regard to my right to express myself, that was not given to me by anyone - it is my God given right

"Do not condemn the hand, condemn the act" M.G.
2nd

But they're heros!!!



Sitting in armored humvees driving around in another sovereign nation hitting IEDs makes them heros

you didn't get the memo?

reply to post by vermonster


Heros who get treated like pink dried up feces when they get home, unless they happen to be chosen for the media photo op...

Originally posted by hammanderr
We are a civilian led military. Everything we do we do at the behest of the US government(civilians). If you feel that we are not currently fighting for your freedoms I am okay with that but believe me, we will when the time comes. I have seen up close the people who consider themselves the enemy of this country and you will want us on your side when the enemy does arrive at your door step. All of your anti-war, peace loving stuff won't protect you from the real killers out there, your military will.

Just say no. That will bring about radical change. The parasites in charge know they can count on the military to suppress the population when the time comes, and that time is not too far away. Just say no - now...... Say no to killing for the corporates, say no to torturing for the government, say no to waging war on innocent people, especially your own when the time comes. Just say no, it will be enough.

I usually don't bother logging in because I'm more of a reader than a poster, but I couldn't help myself this time. I agree one-hundred percent with the OP. Couldn't have said anything better myself. We need to stop praising military for "Protecting Our Freedom". They do absolutely nothing of the sort. S&F