Who is the epitome of Evil, God or Satan?

Originally posted by rcanem
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I have not mentioned how I believe, stop making assumptions, its a nasty habit. I have simply pointed out mans capacity for Evil on a grand scale. I believe it centers on Greed mostly, one of the Seven Deadly Sins. As well as Apathy, another one of the afore mentioned Seven. Apathy allows people to sit and watch evil but do nothing about it. So who is more Evil, the one that commits the atrocity or the one who stands by and watches and does nothing? Food for thought.

No one lives in a vacuum and we all contribute to what is in one way or another.
We all share the blame.

A strange thing about greed.
God shows himself in scripture to be the greediest of the greedy.
He is a jealous God and anything given to any other is punished by eternal torture in hell.
No one is above God, not even for the attribute of greediness.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by FaithNoMore
Put it this way;

No other animal must make fawning professions of faith all their life to save them from hellfire. God is a man-made construct. We create the idea of what we consider good or evil. Nature/or the universe doesn't care. And I certainly suspect, that if a benevolent deity exists, the deity would judge on merits, not belief, belief should be honesty with what you feel inside.

Well said and logical.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by ManOfGod267
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I understand where you're coming from on this topic. When I have been reading about Adam and Eve. Before they ate of the Tree of Good and Evil: They were like the angels. Only knowing good and will live forever like the angels. When they were tempted Adam and Eve did die after living more many hundred of years. This event is where people are now able to do both good and evil(free will). Over time G-d tempted people using Satan and also gave laws to Noah and other prophets to turn the people away from sin and toward G-d. I know it is confusing you would have to study a lot. Do you understand me?

Sure but I do not agree.

You say A & E knew good and yet to know good is to also know the opposite, evil.
That is what the author of the myth wrote of one tree only that was all inclusive of good and evil.
Not a tree or good and another of evil.

Regards
DL

Starting from any of the small and continuing to the big circle-arguments of the elitist forms of christianity, unravel them, and no matter if the perspective is theological, divine or mundane there is AUTHORITY at the center.

And authority is always right,.... authority says.

The rest is just semantic camouflage.

Just for the record.

According to the mythology, Lucifer was/is to become the liberal freedom-fighter. Satan is just a bureaucrat.

reply to post by Greatest I am


I can agree with that. If good is the inverse of evil can you have one without the other? That is like saying there is a left with no right or an up with no down, they cannot be mutually exclusive. And for the record, I do believe that God is a projection of our own desire for answers that we may never know. Now I did it, I will be beat over the head with a Bible for sure now!

Not at all. The book goes on to outline God's plan of salvation through His Son. God never stops walking with man. Man was the one that walked away. God ceased to commune in a face to face manner. Education that leads to sentience must be accomplished in one of two ways: Either we receive communion with God for our education in peace and joy, or we toil the ground in hardship and labor on our own (pride). This is the same story with a human son who walks away form his father's instruction. Man is the prodigal son that eventually comes back to the Father. If the son leaves home, there is no communion with the Father until he returns. If we take the Gnostic view, the Son was the pre-existent Son that was the first Adam. He fell, repented and returned to save mankind as the last Adam. Either view is supported by what we know from the biblical narrative.

I will say something I have said before. This life is not so much about us knowing God as it is God knowing us. We are not humans having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience. If God knows us, He calls our name and we hear. If we seek Him on our own, He adopts us into His family and marks us. The first will be last and the last will be first. If we put ourselves first in this life by taking from others, we are last to see salvation form the hell we create. If we put ourselves last in this life by humility and serving others, we are the first to leave. Either way, there is a final judgment when many will be left behind and separated form those who did God's will.

A final judgment implies other judgments. In John 3, Jesus states, "You must be born again." To me, this implies that there are no other options. He gives two routes to rebirth. We are baptized into the water of the material world, or we are born into the tree above in the spiritual realm. From Luke 10, we accomplish the spiritual birth by loving God and others. Loving either requires humility instead of pride. Jesus defines others as enemies as well as friends. In other words, we must not have any self-pride. Love is the key. Since God loves us when it is unmerited, then we must do the same. This is Grace. We are judged by the same measure we judge others.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by Greatest I am
[
6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.

I can see why Christianity did not include this in the connon as it shows God cutting himself from man and that would make the rest of the bible and gospels all a lie as what is shown being communicated later would have had no authority and would have all been made up by man, including that very same story.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple. Its not about him being good or evil, he is above either concept. He IS, period. Satan, being a lesser being and the first being God created to have free will, chose to rebel against God's laws. It was Satan who caused humanity to fall, he knew God didnt want the adama and eve to eat from the forbidden tree of knowledge. God created the adama because he wanted a companion to walk with him and talk with him. Satan in his jealousy over man wanted God to destroy us. God, howevever, loved his creations and refused to destroy them and start over so he implemented a Great Plan that would culminate in restoring Mankind to his side. He would send a savior, He would send a portion of himself to earth, because only he could free Man from the sin he brought upon himself.

God told the adama he would send them a redeemer, to watch and wait and to believe for the day they would have Salvation. This Redeemer came to earth in the form of a child that the Holy Spirit impregnated into a virgin woman named Mary (think artificial insemination). At the moment of birth this child held a link to his heavenly "father" and he had the knowledge of God, for he was God in the flesh. God's Great Plan was this, He himself would come to earth because only HE had the power to take on sin and purge it from his being. Sacrificing animals only worked for so much, but his Great Plan was to purge ALL sin from mankind, and to do that there needed to be a sin offering that was Perfect and lived a Perfect life, it had to be a portion of himself.

Before World War 2 there was a great revival where many Jews accepted Yeshua Christ as savior and messiah, obviously Yeshua's sacrifice did not fall on deaf ears, thats the power of God, to cause even the hardest of hearts hear his words. Ultimately God is good, for everything he has done, has been to save his creation Man. As any parent, he chastised us when we did wrong, but NEVER was he ever unmerciful and NEVER has he put more on us than we could bear, he promised us he would not. Without Judaism and its decendants Christianity and Islam, this world would tear itself apart in a matter of hours. It is those that believe in God/Yahweh/Allah/El (Yeshua Christ) that are holding this world from imminent destruction. Like all good things there is an opposite, there are false christians, false muslims (radical muslim) and false Jews who work for Satan aka Shai'tan (whom was Lucifer), whom seek to steal away the souls who would believe in the one true God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple.

No.
Your knowledge of the NT is flawed.
Gracious God is.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Its not about him being good or evil, he is above either concept.

God is not invulnerable to judgement.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Sacrificing animals only worked for so much, but his Great Plan was to purge ALL sin from mankind, and to do that there needed to be a sin offering that was Perfect and lived a Perfect life, it had to be a portion of himself.

Jesus is not a sin offering.
Jesus was never sinful to need to be purged.
Only God is perfect.
The lamb had to be without blemish.
There was never a sacrifice that needed to be God.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

This Redeemer came to earth in the form of a child that the Holy Spirit impregnated into a virgin woman named Mary (think artificial insemination).

The donor would have been Joseph, the father of Jesus.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Without Judaism and its decendants Christianity and Islam, this world would tear itself apart in a matter of hours.

Judaism and Zionist Christians are tearing the world apart.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

It is those that believe in God/Yahweh/Allah/El (Yeshua Christ) that are holding this world from imminent destruction.

The world has no need for Yahweh, who is the destroying angel before Moses, to kill the enemies of a particular tribal federation.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You wrote:

["You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple."]

I believe, that we got it. It's ALL about self-proclaimed authority.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You wrote:

["You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple."]

I believe, that we got it. It's ALL about self-proclaimed authority.

You have a real problem with self proclaimed authority and so do I.

The exception to this is God. God does not requires your vote in order to have authority, even if his authority is self proclaimed. God's ballot box is rigged in his favour and you are merely part of his creation, nothing more.

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You wrote:

["You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple."]

I believe, that we got it. It's ALL about self-proclaimed authority.

You have a real problem with self proclaimed authority and so do I.

The exception to this is God. God does not requires your vote in order to have authority, even if his authority is self proclaimed. God's ballot box is rigged in his favour and you are merely part of his creation, nothing more.

Who has said, that this postulate is true?

You, that's who.

Another trick from the semantic bag of pre-prepared christian arguments. "On MY premises 'god' is indisputable, ergo: You can't argue him.".

But I don't share your premises, which are self-proclaimed authority on your part.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by XplanetX

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You wrote:

["You're logic is a bit flawed. God IS law, and his laws are ironclad. Break them, and you die. Its that simple."]

I believe, that we got it. It's ALL about self-proclaimed authority.

You have a real problem with self proclaimed authority and so do I.

The exception to this is God. God does not requires your vote in order to have authority, even if his authority is self proclaimed. God's ballot box is rigged in his favour and you are merely part of his creation, nothing more.

Who has said, that this postulate is true?

You, that's who.

Another trick from the semantic bag of pre-prepared christian arguments. "On MY premises 'god' is indisputable, ergo: You can't argue him.".

But I don't share your premises, which are self-proclaimed authority on your part.

The penny has dropped. You have suddenly realised that my opninion is different than yours.

All this nonsense about circular reasoning is the rock that most of you atheist's hide behind to give yourself an excuse to believe God could not possibly exist.


PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["The penny has dropped. You have suddenly realised that my opninion is different than yours."]

Yes, I used both my braincells, and there it was: "I have different opinions from elitist christians".

Quote: ["All this nonsense about circular reasoning is the rock that most of you atheist's hide behind to give yourself an excuse to believe God could not possibly exist."]

Just for the record, I'm not an atheist, I'm a pastafarian. But I do know something about standard logic, which experience has shown me is VERY different from the kind of logic christian elitists use. Unfortunately no christian elitist has sofar been willing to demonstrate this special logic for me, even on repeated requests. Ofcourse except by just saying: "It's true, because it's true, because THAT's true".

Quote: ["PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God."]

From the Book of the flying spaghetti monster:

16:11 "Beware of circular reasoning".

Can you please tie up to topic in your next post.

reply to post by XplanetX

God does not requires your vote in order to have authority, even if his authority is self proclaimed. God's ballot box is rigged in his favour and you are merely part of his creation, nothing more.

God can not have the ideal universe if He behaves capriciously, or is deemed to be unjust.
We are made in God's image and so are partakers in the duties of being gods, and this was validated when the Lord declared to some other god that, "They have now become as one of us".

I always get tangled up in common sense when I try to think back to when I was a believer.

Such as, if we are made in God's image, and he is perfect... why does the body decay? Why can't we fly naturally? Why are there different skin colors/eye colors/other measurables? You don't exactly 'tweak' with perfection if you know what I mean

It's either that God made us flawed for a reason (elitism/wanted slaves) or that God did not make us.

My two cents, others have said it better and more eloquently over the years.