China's Debt Problem Worse than Portugal

reply to post by Xcathdra


I disagree with many of your posts, but I have to say I am glad you posted this.

Many people are under the false impression that China's GDP means anything as it is a manipulated figure.

Keeping people informed so they can make their own decisions, go you!

Originally posted by MasterGemini
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I disagree with many of your posts, but I have to say I am glad you posted this.

Many people are under the false impression that China's GDP means anything as it is a manipulated figure.

Keeping people informed so they can make their own decisions, go you!

Lol I have my days I guess... So long as we remeber that we can disgaree in one and agree in another thread, and not take it personal, we are good

China has no debt problem.


Their people can NOT declare Bankruptcy. If Mr. Chin bought an apartment for $100,000 in Shanghai...and lost his job...he stays in that house. No money written off. He eventually finds a job making half his earlier pay...he keeps paying on the apartment until he dies. Then it goes on to the next person to borrow and work for it.

They don't get booted from their home. They stay productive.


Now compare that to America's silly financial system. Hundreds of Billions written off every year...people booted from homes and forced to start from scratch....

That's not how you keep Gerbils happy so they stay productive.

reply to post by Pervius


They do have a debt problem, since the central government just got caught hiding close to a half trillion in debt from global agencies who monitor nation state credit / cash operations (WTO comes to mind as well).

They manipulate their currency to their advantage, which caused the trade imbalance with the Us in their favor.

Private Chinese citizens are not allowed to have credit, however Chinese business is allowed it, and right now its suggested they are at 200% of GDP for business debt based on credit.

200% of their GDP.

thats a lot.... If that bubble breaks, it will be major, and will set back recovery, just as the US and EU are facing with recent setbacks in finance.

Originally posted by XcathdraI dont thin China could recover if the US completely collapsed.

The gov & corporations might collapse but the chinese people are resiliant.

Dont know how many will remember this but everything used to be made in Taiwan, then the Taiwanese moved all the low end products into China and then started producing the high tech stuff.

Its the Taiwanese who own most of the businesses in China and Taiwan is just about the biggest holder of foreign reserve currencies in the world.

S & F

This has been an interesting read.

Originally posted by stirling
Look around at the plethora of crap that abounds at swap meets andd yard sales....they look like the dollar store but second hand.....

Impulse Buying through Commercial Echo

I just can't stand the crap when I see in the stores. I advice my wife the same and not to invest in Junk that will be discarded within few minutes if not within a week or two by the kids. Same goes for other household goods.

Only buy if really necessary but also buy something that is of a better quality.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
S & F

This has been an interesting read.

It has been indeed.

I wasn't aware of several key points discussed in this post. Lets hope the masses get the real picture.

China makes a few trillion off the books, and everyone freaks out, but the US loans out 16 trillion, loses 2.3 trillion, spends trillions more on wars based on lies, bails out the banks with another couple trillion but remember inflation is still only 2.3%, and china is still the bad man. what a hoot!


oh wait, the article was about a few hundred billion...psh! pennies!!!! carry on!

reply to post by gameoverforyou


Keep laughing.

The fact they may be cooking their books in the shadows doesn't instill confidence. Regarding the mess the US is in, it's pretty much right out in the open and is public knowledge. Now, based on those two facts how would it look to somebody who considers the two situations objectively?

reply to post by SLAYER69


I see you failed basic math class, but keep hating china while the US inflates another few trillion dollars to bail out the euros while complaining about how china hides a few hundred billion.

reply to post by gameoverforyou


I'm glad I'm able to make you laugh and that you find all of this so amusing.

It warms my heart to know that there are still some who call themselves adults out in the world who still look at the world through a child's eye and naiveté and don't take anything very seriously.

reply to post by Xcathdra


If this is the case then who's got all the money?????? Some country or entity must be in a huge surplus mode if China, the US, Europe and Japan aren't good shape. Something doesn't add up or something really bad is going to happen.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

I dont thin China could recover if the US completely collapsed.

I think the US would survive if China completely collapsed.

China is the biggest bubble inflating. It's potential to burst would be worse than Europe's or America's.

Just think, we wouldn't have cheap, shoddy goods coming in at artificially reduced currency manipulated prices. Gasp.....we might have to start making products again here in America. Oh the horrors...... where will we find workers???????

Sorry, I just find most of Chinese made stuff junk, and not even good junk. Sorry to paint with such a broad brush, but they put out a lot of crappy product. It's more the rule than the exception.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

If this is the case then who's got all the money?????? Some country or entity must be in a huge surplus mode if China, the US, Europe and Japan aren't good shape. Something doesn't add up or something really bad is going to happen.

If we based the term money on the physical only, then sure. However, when we went off the gold standard, we also went off the physicality of actual wealth. Wealth can be based on currency sure, but now days its also based on resources, potential of an item (supply / demand), control over land, water, etc etc etc.

Going to war for pieces of land is there for the soul purpose (and what China is looking at) of control, but that control is based on how valuable the land is. Hence china and its posturing / becoming aggressive towards Asian countries and the South China Sea.

China could care less about the water.. They are more interested in the potential of whats underneath it.

Going back to Physical currency, nations report on their reserves in compliance with the WTO / and agreements with other countries, since currency is not only traded on the open market, but can gain / loose value as well. China has a knack of getting things to work in their favor. They have essentially mastered how a Capitalist economic model is suppose to work, and have tweaked it so they not only can control it within their borders, they have figured out a way for it to work with a communist style government (although they are moving away from communism to a hybrid).

Because of the way they view themselves / country and the world, to them there is nothing wrong with hiding or under reporting / failing to report debt. They view it as something that is not relevenat, while to capistalist / open market countries its very relevant (going back to money on the open market).

China makes money hand over fist because of their ability to constantly keep their currency deflated. They use that as leverage when dealing with other open market countries.

Long story short - China is not as solvent as it thinks. While they do make money hand over fist, a bulk of that goes back to purchase items they need that cant be manufatured in their own country - IE military upgrades. The one market where cash only is generally the manner in which it operates.

China is the globes manufacturing entity. They will do whatever it takes to remain in that position because without it, they are nothing.

reply to post by pavil


The chinese bubble will burst, its only a matter of time. Their population is starting to get used to the concept of disposable income, and China is starting to curtail that activitey with tighter social controls (google, etc etc).

What I meant by surviving and China need the US and not vice versa is based on political stability. Even with the issues we are having in the US, as well as Europe, if the same thing were occuring in china, it wouldnt be going as well. The decline would be a lot faster, and most likely more violent as the government would need to keep control, and as we all know they dont care for protesting or government criticism.

If the US lost China, we would be hurt, but we have the ability (political stability, manufacturing, diverse ecnomy / etc). China on the other hand, being the worlds manufacturer, is not as diverse and the loss of the Us or EU market would put a LOT of Chinese out of work. The Chinese market, since they do their best to keep out foreign competition, is already at max for domestic spending.

Losing the US / EU markets would be the death knell for the chinese Government. They could not recover from the loss in time before the people go bonkers over the loss of jobs and the standard of living they are getting a taste of.

the source is fox news and fox news is known disinfo. Europe and USA's true debt positions are hidden in the form of interest rate swaps which is in quadrillions.
Chinese have hidden bad debts in the form of social enterprises and social banks in rural areas.
Refer to zerohedge on this issue.

reply to post by pavil


offshore hedge funds are the answer.follow the money trail to Cayman,Hong Kong,Brussels ,you will understand.

reply to post by Xcathdra

If the US lost China, we would be hurt, but we have the ability (political stability, manufacturing, diverse ecnomy / etc).

is this some kind of a joke?US has lost most of its industrial base.

China on the other hand, being the worlds manufacturer, is not as diverse and the loss of the Us or EU market would put a LOT of Chinese out of work.

in the short term ,yes.

The Chinese market, since they do their best to keep out foreign competition, is already at max for domestic spending.

What nonsense is this? Chinese market is full of JV,strategic alliances ,partnerships and equity alliances between foreign and local players.