If the government was in charge of 9/11 what's the deal with terror?

If, and please notice I said "if", the government is behind the 9/11 attacks, why is everyone so assured or afraid of "another" terrorist attack? Why are some of you talking about closing boarders? If the attack came from our own people in our own government...why would we need to shut our boarders, and look to the Arab nations for problems? Makes no sense



[edit on 8/17/2004 by LadyV]

I'll try to represent the conspiracy proponents.

Originally posted by LadyV
If, and please notice I said "if", the government is behind the 9/11 attacks, why is everyone so assured or afraid of "another" terrorist attack?

Because if they did it once, why wouldn't they do it again? If the 9/11 attacks enabled the gov to grab more power, more attacks would enable them to gain even more power. It's their MO, especially since the first round was so successful.

Why are some of you talking about closing boarders?

The gov could be in charge, and hire foreigners to do the dirty work. The gov is not arguing that Americans attacked themselves, so why are they spending so much effort watching Americans but leaving the borders wide open?

If the attack came from our own people in our own government...why would we need to shut our boarders, and look to the Arab nations for problems?

I don't really know what you are saying here. But I think you can't lump all conspiracies theories together. Whether we argue for closing the borders or having spies in the Middle East really is determined by our worldview. I don't think even the conspiracy proponents have all the answers, but the common thread is that the "official line" about 9/11 is false. How they each recommend solving the problem differs based on what you think the actual truth is.

If as you say the government was behind 911 [and more certainly Oklahoma City], then the worry over terrorism is not arab infiltrators but what is the next incident the government wants to choreograph.
It is useful for struting moralistic politicians to have some enemy that those "big strong self-righteous" congress persons, president, CIA, FBI, and the Military are going to protect us poor little defenseless common peons from.

1) Will they create an incident to try to manipulate the election?
2) Will they have to create a HUGE incident if people start getting suspicious about 911 and Oklahoma city?
3) Will they create incidents so people will be begging the government to take away more civil rights?

I'm not much of a believer in the 'NWO', but I still believe based on MASSIVE amounts of evidence that the US government is headed by sick and evil people. People so hung up on ideology or some clandestined designs [which elude me], but most likely just plain old greed, which is easy to understand if totally unethical.
.

Originally posted by slank
1) Will they create an incident to try to manipulate the election?

I think they already did - imagine where dubya's approval rating would be without 911 - in fact that's sort of how I think of him; an incident that was created to manipulate the election.

2) Will they have to create a HUGE incident if people start getting suspicious about 911 and Oklahoma city?

I'm not sure "they" even need to now. Fear is an even more powerful weapon than violence, and now we're soaking in it. What was Osama pissed off about? Who cares anymore. Thanks to the sacking of Iraq, we've just created an entire population of pissed off Arabs, or as the media prefers to call them, "Islamic Extremists". They're pissed off, ruthless, and, as FOX news is never ever going to let us forget, they could strike at any time. Thank god for the color coded alert system, so I can remember exactly how afraid to be on any given day.

3) Will they create incidents so people will be begging the government to take away more civil rights?

Only if we're not scared enough to to simply hand em over.

I'm not much of a believer in the 'NWO', but I still believe based on MASSIVE amounts of evidence that the US government is headed by sick and evil people. People so hung up on ideology or some clandestined designs [which elude me], but most likely just plain old greed, which is easy to understand if totally unethical.
.

I think if you obsessed over those clandestine designs until they no longer eluded you, you'd have a picture of the NWO that you would believe in. Unfortunately, then you'd be scared as hell, but at least you'd know whom to to be afraid of. IMO, it's not just plain old greed -

It's just plain old global control.

What about international terrorism? what about terrorism in Iraq? What about OBL stating that he was behind 9-11.. so if you beleive that our gov was behind 9-11 you are implicitly stating that obl is in kahoots with our gov.. and i for one dont buy that... OBL is a real person, with real motives and those motives are against the US. Sure we 'created' him but he is just one of our [many] botched incursions into stopping communisim.

Actually I have a theory...

I dont think our government are the sinister ones at all.. there are too many open ends and too many stretched conclusions. What if all the extreme conspiracy theorists are really extreme anarchists.. all they want to see is anarchy..(i know ppl like this) they will do anything to see chaos including turning ppl againsth their governments, volia Anarchy.. yay!



[edit on 17-8-2004 by RealisticPatriot]

Must we re-hash these hash browns again?

The government has plotted, way before George took the White House(yup) this all along. Its an unfolding drama, written quite awhile ago, I would guess by Daddy Bush & Cheney to end the cyclical presidency and give it all to one dumbas. Little George.

Those who are so blind that cannot see this need to enlighten themselves . These people are the minority now.

If you read "any" Hitler article by doing a google search, you will find out the EXACT same tactics used way back when are being used right now.

By yelling "terror" they are panicking people, and people who feel helpless like to hide under the skirts of the president. Everyone knows these are exercises working the "masses" into submission. It works!

Now, there will FOR SURE be an attack. That is being planned, and its the next chapter of this horror tale. When it does happen, now that people are waking up, I think it will cause a civil war.

The manipulation i think will only last sooo long, and then it will no longer work.

" If the government was in charge of 9/11 what's the deal with terror?"
The deal is that terror is also a lie.

You are wrong my feathered one.

[edit on 17-8-2004 by dgtempe]

i live in america, and can tell you with quite certainty there is a massive array of dumb folk. wether it be immigrants who come here and are completly thrown off by the fast paced consumer hungry desolete streets of modern america, or just plain educated lazy properly spoken technology addicted average stu, throwing off a bunch of complacent busy bodies is no daunting ordeal. with the war being waged on information, you have to keep all possibilities in mind.

[edit on 17-8-2004 by sturod84]

[edit on 20-8-2004 by sturod84]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Must we re-hash these hash browns again?

The government has plotted, way before George took the White House(yup) this all along. Its an unfolding drama, written quite awhile ago, I would guess by Daddy Bush & Cheney to end the cyclical presidency and give it all to one dumbas. Little George.

Those who are so blind that cannot see this need to enlighten themselves . These people are the minority now.

If you read "any" Hitler article by doing a google search, you will find out the EXACT same tactics used way back when are being used right now.

By yelling "terror" they are panicking people, and people who feel helpless like to hide under the skirts of the president. Everyone knows these are exercises working the "masses" into submission. It works!

Now, there will FOR SURE be an attack. That is being planned, and its the next chapter of this horror tale. When it does happen, now that people are waking up, I think it will cause a civil war.

The manipulation i think will only last sooo long, and then it will no longer work.

" If the government was in charge of 9/11 what's the deal with terror?"
The deal is that terror is also a lie.

You say that this began before dubya, so clinton is in the know too? They yelling of "TERROR!" is just a CYA tactic that the gov uses IF sh*t goes down, they dont look so stupid a la 9-11 for not knowing about it. Not for stealing your freedoms away. I personally feel no difference in my freedoms now than pre-911. I had a phil prof that was raving about the patriot act incarcerating us all in a couple of years.. that didnt happen. Terrorism is not a made up device used by US politicians to control US freedoms.. If you really think that, why dont you travel to israel or palestine and check to see if people are really blowing themselves up. Or do you think that the twisted media makes all that up? Also If the terrorist threat is fake, that means OBL and all that is fake too... why are we fighting them indirectly in Iraq, and directly in afganistan? SEE none of your theorys ADD UP...too many loose ends. Im not "blind" just because i dont want to swallow the conspiracy "everyones evil and the world is going to hell in a handbasket" garb. NOW im not sayn that dubya is a saint, nor am i saying that he isnt trying to line his pockets with this whole iraq deal thats different. What i am saying is that all this NWO crap is just what it is .. crap.

There you go my furry friend

hey, patriot... time to wake up.

Subject: 95 Websites With Evidence Of U.S. Govt
Complicity In 9-11


95 WEBSITES:

www.911inplanesite.com...
www.fearorlove.com...
www.erichufschmid.net...
joevialls.altermedia.info...
www.letsroll911.org...
WWW.JACKBLOOD.COM...
www.911forthetruth.com...
www.wanttoknow.info...
911index.batcave.net...
www.911pi.com...
911research.wtc7.net...
911research.wtc7.net...
www.911review.org...
www.911review.org...
911skeptics.blogspot.com...
www.911-strike.com...
www.911truth.org...
www.911truth.org...
www.americanfreepress.net...
www.americanstateterrorism.com...
www.apfn.org...
www.asile.org...
home.comcast.net...
www.communitycurrency.org...
www.conniescomments.blogspot.com...
www.conspiracyplanet.com...
www.cooperativeresearch.org...
www.cosmicpenguin.com...
home.debitel.net...
www.deceptiondollar.com...
www.emperors-clothes.com...
www.falloutshelternews.com...
www.feralnews.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.gaianxaos.com...
new.globalfreepress.com...
www.globalresearch.ca...
www.gnn.tv...
www.grandconspiracy.com...
www.guerrillanews.com...
www.gunsandbutter.net...
www.hermes-press.com...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...
www.infowars.com...
www.johnbuchanan.org...
www.johnbuchanan.org...
www.johnkaminski.com...
www.leftgatekeepers.com...
www.legitgov.org...
www.lihop.net...
www.madcowprod.com...
www.mediamonitors.net...
www.mindfully.org...
www.nancho.net...
www.nerdcities.com...
www.newsmakingnews.com...
www.ny911truth.org...
www.oilempire.us...
www.onlinejournal.com...
www.osamaskidneys.com...
home.pacbell.net...
home.pacbell.net...
www.peaceproject.com...
perso.wanadoo.fr...
perso.wanadoo.fr...
www.physics911.org...
www.prisonplanet.com...
www.propagandamatrix.com...
www.public-action.com...
www.questionsquestions.net...
www.questionsquestions.net...
www.radio4houston.org...
www.ratical.org...
www.rense.com...
www.rise4news.net...
www.septembereleventh.org...
serendipity.cia.com.au...
www.serendipity.li...
www.serendipity.li...
www.serendipity.li...
serendipity.ptpi.net...
www.911sharethetruth.com...
www.sigacanada.com...
socrates.berkeley.edu...
www.standdown.net...
sydney.indymedia.org...
www.takebackthemedia.com...
www.takebackthemedia.com...
www.takingaim.info...
www.tenc.net...
www.thelawparty.com...
www.thepowerhour.com...
www.thememoryhole.org...
www.thewaronfreedom.com...
www.thewebfairy.com...
www.truth-now.com...
www.truthout.com...
www.unansweredquestions.org...
www.visiontv.ca...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

and where it all started for me...

www.wtc7.net...

Also If the terrorist threat is fake, that means OBL and all that is fake too... why are we fighting them indirectly in Iraq, and directly in afganistan?

NOW im not sayn that dubya is a saint, nor am i saying that he isnt trying to line his pockets with this whole iraq deal thats different.

So why exactly did we blow up Iraq? Terrorism or well lined pockets?

Actually if you look at it from a logical point of view Dubya has covered a lot of bases if he gets caught he just blames it all on bad intelligence, take the attack of Iraq, not one shred of evidence but yet Bush and friends convince America we are in danger of being attacked, get out the duct tape and plastic, the media is used to convince us all Saddam and 911 are all tied together, OBL is forgotten and there is widescale support for invading Iraq, if you do not believe Bush is correct your made to look unpatriotic and not supporting the troops. When he is caught later of proof that there was no ties and no WMD he screams bad intelligence from the CIA.
The scary thing about Bush's actions about 911 besides he sat in the classroom like a knot on a log is that he was against a committee to study what happened and why it happened. There are tons of reasons that he could have attempted blocking the formation of the committee is that he knew it was on his watch and he knew it was not going to make him look good. Whether he knew or not Bush did a really bad job and his lack of concern and arrogance and his staff's lack of concern about the threat OBL posed is just plain negligence and played apart in allowing 911 to happen. I'm not saying it was preventable we will never know because no one was working hard to prevent it and I base that idea on the fact that they had all the warnings and did nothing to stop it. Absolutely nothing!

Originally posted by LadyV
why is everyone so assured or afraid of "another" terrorist attack?

If the government was complicit in 9/11 attacks then this means that they did it to further their policy. Just like Pearl Harbour when America wanted to join the war (for many reasons besides the new weapon they had) they allowed the attack evn though intelligence suggested it would happen. It's seems so similar as just like before the administration has used the attack as justification to put troops out there "for global peace and safety" when really it is pretty clear that the Saddam threat was just spin.

They need to keep the people scared. The people are scared = they have more control.

Thank for all the opinions/info....I have thought about this a lot lately. My DH, Misfit here on the boards, has always believed it was our own government, and I have always sat on the fence about it, but the more I read, the more I am questioning....it so very, very sad!

hey, patriot... time to wake up.

Subject: 95 Websites With Evidence Of U.S. Govt
Complicity In 9-11

Hey! whats up, I am awake. 95 websites.. oooo! you mean 95 crackpots who have nothing better to do with their time than to make up conspiracy theories, people who have NO bakground in aeronautics or physics or engineering, no type of background in ANY of the claims they are making. Now i confess I am making a blanket statement here. Of course i have not been to ALL 95 of those sites, but ill scan a few randomly and see what they have to say. Ive seen most of it all already, all of the "footage" that looks funny has logical explanations (barring one). Many of theese claims are based on shotty footage, really grainy pictures, made up evidence, or claims that have NO backing. I know that me saying this on This particular site is like a gun control freak preaching at the NRA confrence, but i figured w/e

So why exactly did we blow up Iraq? Terrorism or well lined pockets?

the latter.. there are billions of US dollars going into "reconstruction" .. that are un accounted for. You guys want somthing sinister with the gov to pick on .. the haliburton stuff and all that crap is real. all this NWO stuff is just way too far fetched. Greed for money is way more logical and down to earth possible

[edit on 18-8-2004 by RealisticPatriot]

If the government was complicit in 9/11 attacks then this means that they did it to further their policy. Just like Pearl Harbour when America wanted to join the war (for many reasons besides the new weapon they had) they allowed the attack evn though intelligence suggested it would happen. It's seems so similar as just like before the administration has used the attack as justification to put troops out there "for global peace and safety" when really it is pretty clear that the Saddam threat was just spin.

Well put, and a good analogy....

As I have said before, I do believe that there were those within the government that did have prior knowledge of the impending 9/11 attacks. I thought it was really amazing how quickly authorities were able to identify all of the so called hijackers after the attack. How could have that been possible if there had not been some kind of prior knowledge. Beyond that, all of the so called evidence that was presented by the media, and the government so quickly after 911 was highly suspicious.

Soon after the hijacking, the passenger list were available on the net. I found it interesting that none of the so-called hijackers names were mentioned on the flights, in fact if memory serves me correctly there were not even any names that would have gave a hint of anyone of the passenger being from Arab nations. At that point I had to ask myself, how could these 19 hijackers have boarded planes and not one of them be listed on a passenger list. I have traveled all over the world on commercial flights, and not once was I every able to board a plane anonymously. For insurance purposes, airlines were very sure to get your name, address, etc, because of possible problems that would come up, if there was an accident, and claims were filed against the airline. Had they not done so, anyone could have filed a claim.

As for the possibility of further terrorist attacks against targets here in the United States, I do think that it is more of a danger now than it was before 9/11. I say this, because of foreign policy that we have exhibited since the planning stages of the war with Iraq, which has been one of no compromise. We have made a lot of enemies that we never had to make, and alienated nations that were once our allies. Not to mention, our pertinacious backing of Israel has made America, and Americans the target of radical groups around the world. Whether that threat is as pronounced as our government would have us believe, I can't say.

On the other hand, I do believe that there are those within our government that would propogate feigned attacks within our borders in order to put more fear in the minds and hearts of Americans in order to take away more rights, and even try to put our nation under martial law.

Well theres no real evidence as yet that President Bush had first hand knowlage that 911 was going to happen,but then there is always " Plausible Deniability " It would'nt be the first time someone lauched an opperation without the Presidents approval ( or so we are told ) Opperations like the Bay of Pigs spring to mind. But that doesnt mean he wasnt aware that it could happen or that there was infact an plot by Terrorists or others to Kill thousands in this act of Terror.
But on the other hand the US Government ( not the people of America, i say that because there are two many people confusing the two ) has a History of Staging things as an excuse for going to war.

Below is an example of such actions i found whilst doing some research on 911

www.americanfreepress.net... 01_01/U_S__Officials_Proposed_Stagin/u_s__officials_proposed_stagin.html


You could also argue that the Gulf of Tonkin Inccident was staged as an excuse to go to war with North Vietnam.






[edit on 18-8-2004 by Janus]

Originally posted by bunkbuster
hey, patriot... time to wake up.

Subject: 95 Websites With Evidence Of U.S. Govt
Complicity In 9-11


95 WEBSITES:

www.911inplanesite.com...
www.fearorlove.com...
www.erichufschmid.net...
joevialls.altermedia.info...
www.letsroll911.org...
WWW.JACKBLOOD.COM...
www.911forthetruth.com...
www.wanttoknow.info...
911index.batcave.net...
www.911pi.com...
911research.wtc7.net...
911research.wtc7.net...
www.911review.org...
www.911review.org...
911skeptics.blogspot.com...
www.911-strike.com...
www.911truth.org...
www.911truth.org...
www.americanfreepress.net...
www.americanstateterrorism.com...
www.apfn.org...
www.asile.org...
home.comcast.net...
www.communitycurrency.org...
www.conniescomments.blogspot.com...
www.conspiracyplanet.com...
www.cooperativeresearch.org...
www.cosmicpenguin.com...
home.debitel.net...
www.deceptiondollar.com...
www.emperors-clothes.com...
www.falloutshelternews.com...
www.feralnews.com...
www.fromthewilderness.com...
www.gaianxaos.com...
new.globalfreepress.com...
www.globalresearch.ca...
www.gnn.tv...
www.grandconspiracy.com...
www.guerrillanews.com...
www.gunsandbutter.net...
www.hermes-press.com...
www.informationclearinghouse.info...
www.infowars.com...
www.johnbuchanan.org...
www.johnbuchanan.org...
www.johnkaminski.com...
www.leftgatekeepers.com...
www.legitgov.org...
www.lihop.net...
www.madcowprod.com...
www.mediamonitors.net...
www.mindfully.org...
www.nancho.net...
www.nerdcities.com...
www.newsmakingnews.com...
www.ny911truth.org...
www.oilempire.us...
www.onlinejournal.com...
www.osamaskidneys.com...
home.pacbell.net...
home.pacbell.net...
www.peaceproject.com...
perso.wanadoo.fr...
perso.wanadoo.fr...
www.physics911.org...
www.prisonplanet.com...
www.propagandamatrix.com...
www.public-action.com...
www.questionsquestions.net...
www.questionsquestions.net...
www.radio4houston.org...
www.ratical.org...
www.rense.com...
www.rise4news.net...
www.septembereleventh.org...
serendipity.cia.com.au...
www.serendipity.li...
www.serendipity.li...
www.serendipity.li...
serendipity.ptpi.net...
www.911sharethetruth.com...
www.sigacanada.com...
socrates.berkeley.edu...
www.standdown.net...
sydney.indymedia.org...
www.takebackthemedia.com...
www.takebackthemedia.com...
www.takingaim.info...
www.tenc.net...
www.thelawparty.com...
www.thepowerhour.com...
www.thememoryhole.org...
www.thewaronfreedom.com...
www.thewebfairy.com...
www.truth-now.com...
www.truthout.com...
www.unansweredquestions.org...
www.visiontv.ca...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

and where it all started for me...

www.wtc7.net...

Also If the terrorist threat is fake, that means OBL and all that is fake too... why are we fighting them indirectly in Iraq, and directly in afganistan?

NOW im not sayn that dubya is a saint, nor am i saying that he isnt trying to line his pockets with this whole iraq deal thats different.

So why exactly did we blow up Iraq? Terrorism or well lined pockets?

THANK YOU BUNK BUSTER- NEED WE SAY MORE? i SUPPOSE THIS IS ALLLLLL MADE UP STUFF.!!!

I said it before and ill say it again, theese people are NOT experts in the field they claim they have found "somthing wrong" with. Be it the aircraft, or the structures.. Here is my challenge to both of you.. of all those 95 sites listed find me 5 that come from reputable people. Or at the very least, somone who KNOWS what they are talking about regarding aeronautics or structureal engineering.... Ill be waiting.

Originally posted by RealisticPatriot
I said it before and ill say it again, theese people are NOT experts in the field they claim they have found "somthing wrong" with. Be it the aircraft, or the structures.. Here is my challenge to both of you.. of all those 95 sites listed find me 5 that come from reputable people. Or at the very least, somone who KNOWS what they are talking about regarding aeronautics or structureal engineering.... Ill be waiting.

Here are a few links taken from the site Propaganda Matrix.

Early steel tests.

Firefighter describes bombs in building.

Bush took FBI agents off Laden family trail

Bush thwarted FBI probe against bin Ladens

Now my point is the Auther of that site does not claim to be an "Expert" in Construction, Itelligence or Counter intelligence, Firefighting or any of the other thousands of Special fields that went into reporting or investigating the events of 911. After all how could he be? And neither are me or you. Research, especially research concerning a event like 911, involves a lot of reading and sifting through available evidence and eyewhitness reports and trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. The links above are from news reports available to the general public.
It is up to the reader to make their own minds up about the validity or lack of validity of the information presented. I respect that you hold different views to the ones presented by the posters here, that is your right.
Just because the people who set up sites like the ones listed here and for that matter the posters on ATS do not share the opinions of the mainstream does not mean that they cannot try and seek what they believe to be the truth for themselves.
I myself believe that there is something wrong with the explanation released by the US Government regarding the events leading up to and including the attacks of 911, am i a nut? Perhaps but it is my right to look at evidence in the public domain and express an opinion,to Deny Ignorance if you will,and if someone dissagrees with my ideas then i can respect that.
But to debunk and call people crazy because they dont agree with what you believe to be right Patriot is wrong and uncalled for. The Only way forward in any community is through repect and intelligent discussion. It is not for us to prove or dissprove, but we can explore avenues often ignored and put forward ideas to make people think.


[edit on 19-8-2004 by Janus]