Shouldn't we have had a huge earthquake by now?

Originally posted by Forevever
so that means even if there's no earthquake by Tuesday, you still get to link people to google documents as verification that CME's cause earthquakes?

I just want to be clear.

Looks like a lot of loopholes to me.

So because there are many factors which influence how solar activity affects Earth there must be no connection?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


No-one is saying that the Sun does not influence the Earth. It is the primary driver of climate and weather. It also affects a myriad other things. One of the few things it does not affect is tectonic activity. That's all we're saying.

Another factor is that your head, and body, might not always there to be hit by rocks, and in the same way not all cmes are directed at Earth, an error which Chad did not take into account in one of his tries to debunk this connection.

The problem being, of course, that this CME smacked Earth right upside the head:

Earth's magnetic field is still reverberating from a CME strike on August 5th that sparked one of the strongest geomagnetic storms in years. Registering 8 on the 0 to 9 "K-index" scale of magnetic disturbances, the storm at maximum sparked auroras across Europe and in many northern-tier US states.

www.spaceweather.com...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


DJ is way smarter than I am and I'm not ashamed to admit it!
refer to his post

Originally posted by DJW001

No-one is saying that the Sun does not influence the Earth. It is the primary driver of climate and weather. It also affects a myriad other things. One of the few things it does not affect is tectonic activity. That's all we're saying.

Well the problem is that scientists are saying it does. Who do i believe, a couple of people I don't know and don't want to understand what scientists are saying, or what dozens of research work done by scientists actually say? Who you want to believe is your problem.

Originally posted by DJW001

The problem being, of course, that this CME smacked Earth right upside the head:

And have you or anyone else not noted that the next day Etna erupted again for example?, oh but no of course, it is just a coincidence.

If the core of the Earth is capable of producing the Earth's magnetic field, why is it so hard for people to believe that changes in the Sun's magnetic field, and in general it's activity does influence the Earth's seismic, volcanic activity and other natural phenomenon?

What you people are trying to claim is similar to claiming that a magnet cannot influence another magnet in any way.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

hey I'm open, I'm just not going to log on to google documents to read your links

I did go google Etna though

Looks like a pretty active Volcano in general
and people been predicting a significant eruption since January

There was a series of eruptions on Etna in January and June which showered local villages with ash but caused no injuries. Some believe this may be a prelude to the volcano's first significant eruption in 6 years.

Source

This is the most active volcano in the world.

source

additional source

I won't scream "coincidence" based on this, but I will definitely say "inconclusive" and/or "failure to correlate"

The entire Earth from it's atmosphere to the oceans, and even in it's lithosphere and mantle is criss-crossed by magnetic fields, and electric currents. The electric currents in the Earth's lithosphere and mantle are called Telluric currents, and in case you guys didn't know we even use these telluric currents, as a medium, to get readings of the processes that occur within Earth's interior.

It has been shown that electricity do affect rocks, and can even crack certain rocks/aka stress‐induced piezoelectric polarization in rocks, and or in quartz grains, and changes in the telluric currents produced by changes in the ionosphere currents due to solar wind changes or other solar activity will influence what happens to telluric currents which in turn will affect the Earth's lithosphere and or mantle.

That's just one way that the sun activity can influence the Earth's activity.

How about the fact that changes in the electric currents flowing through the E region of the ionosphere, which is known to increase with increased solar activity, will change currents in the lower atmosphere which in turn can affect tides and currents on Earth's oceans. I guess this, according to some people, cannot influence seismic and volcanic activity on Earth either?

And to corroborate what I just said, which btw I have explained these processes in the past, even years ago in these same forums.

Earthquake activity controlled by the regular induced telluric currents
Gerald DUMA, Central Institute for Meteorology and Geodynamics, Department of Geophysics,
[email protected], Hohe Warte 38, A-1190 Vienna, Austria
Tel 0043-1-36026-2503, Fax 0043-1-368 66 21
Introduction

From 1996 to 1998 remarkable observations were obtained at the ZAMG (Central Institute for
Meteorology and Geodynamics, Vienna, Austria) regarding regional earthquake activity and the magnetic
variations which were recorded at adjacent geomagnetic observatories: In many of the main earthquake
regions worldwide, seismic activity changes in accordance with the geomagnetic secular variations (long
term changes) as well as with the regular solar daily variations Sq (Duma, 1996; Duma, Vilardo, 1998).
Moreover, this applies also to strong earthquake activity, i.e. to events with magnitudes exceeding M5 and
M6.
Model calculations have revealed that the effect differs from all known observations, which have been
frequently reported from the 1960s on, where regional magnetic anomalies were observed in seismic regions
prior to strong earthquakes (e.g. Nagata, 1976). These anomalies can be well interpreted by changing
magnetic rock properties and changing magnetization under increasing stress in a focal zone. Thus, up to
now, those anomalies were considered as precursor phenomena, giving some indication of forthcoming
strong earthquakes and possibly being suitable for the prediction of strong seismic events.
In contrary to this widely known process, the effect reported in this paper (referred to as the ‘Magneto-Seismic Effect MSE’ in the following) seems to actually regulate earthquake activity: The long term geomagnetic variations and the seasonal variations, as well as the Sq-variations do not originate in the Earth’s lithosphere, but have external sources, situated in the deep Earth’s interior (magnetic dynamo) and in the ionosphere, respectively. But by electromagnetic induction they produce the telluric currents in the Earth’s lithosphere and mantle, which are large scale and intense current systems, easy measureable e.g. in magnetotelluric surveys. Since the conductive lithosphere is exposed also to the Earth’s main magnetic field, Lorentz forces (I . B)result which act on the current layers and superimpose the tectonic stress field. Modeling this process (Duma, Ruzhin, 2002), it turns out that the deformation energy provided to the lithosphere is surprisingly high and lies within the range of tectonic strains itself: for an area of 200 km times 200 km for instance, the energy amounts to a value equal to that of an earthquake with Richter magnitude M3,8.
...

www.isfep.com...

And.

Atmosphere-Ionosphere Response to the M9 Tohoku Earthquake Revealed by Joined Satellite and Ground Observations. Preliminary results

Dimitar Ouzounov, Sergey Pulinets, Alexey Romanov, Alexander Romanov, Konstantin Tsybulya, Dimitri Davidenko, Menas Kafatos, Patrick Taylor

(Submitted on 13 May 2011)

The recent M9 Tohoku Japan earthquake of March 11, 2011 was the largest recorded earthquake ever to hit this nation. We retrospectively analyzed the temporal and spatial variations of four different physical parameters - outgoing long wave radiation (OLR), GPS/TEC, Low-Earth orbit tomography and critical frequency foF2. These changes characterize the state of the atmosphere and ionosphere several days before the onset of this earthquake. Our first results show that on March 8th a rapid increase of emitted infrared radiation was observed from the satellite data and an anomaly developed near the epicenter. The GPS/TEC data indicate an increase and variation in electron density reaching a maximum value on March 8. Starting on this day in the lower ionospheric there was also confirmed an abnormal TEC variation over the epicenter. From March 3-11 a large increase in electron concentration was recorded at all four Japanese ground based ionosondes, which return to normal after the main earthquake. We found a positive correlation between the atmospheric and ionospheric anomalies and the Tohoku earthquake. This study may lead to a better understanding of the response of the atmosphere /ionosphere to the Great Tohoku earthquake.

Comments:

Preliminary results reported at EGU 2011 in Vienna, Austria

Subjects:

Geophysics (physics.geo-ph); Space Physics (physics.space-ph)

Cite as:

arXiv:1105.2841v1 (physics.geo-ph)

arxiv.org...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


GREAT find - thank you - but a bit hard to read. Here's the meat.

We found a positive correlation between the atmospheric and ionospheric anomalies and the Tohoku earthquake.

Oh, let's not also forget.

Earth trembles as big winds move in

01 July 2005
Magazine issue 2506. Subscribe and save
For similar stories, visit the Hurricanes Topic Guide


HURRICANES can trigger swarms of weak earthquakes and even set the Earth vibrating, according to the first study of such effects.

When Hurricane Charley slammed into Florida in August 2004, physicist Randall Peters of Mercer University in Macon, Georgia, had a seismometer ready to monitor any vibrations in the Earth's crust. He did so for over 36 hours as Charley travelled briefly over Florida, then slid back out into the Atlantic.

As the hurricane reached land, the seismometer recorded a series of "micro-tremors" from the Earth's crust. This happened again as the storm moved back out to sea. Then, as Charley grazed the continental shelf on its way out, it caused a sharp seismic spike. "I suspect the storm triggered a subterranean landslide," says Peters.

More surprisingly, the storm also caused the Earth to vibrate. The planet's surface in the vicinity of the hurricane started moving up and down at ...
...

www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Amazing world we live in, isn't it?

Seems like any little thing can have a big effect.

Another interesting read which corroborates what I have been saying.

Global electrical currents

Willis L. Webb1

(1) Atmospheric Sciences Laboratory, U.S. Army Electronics Command, 88002 White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, USA


Summary The atmospheric electrical structure of the earth is postulated to be controlled by a motivating force in the lower ionosphere which is produced by interaction between neutral atmosphere tidal circulations and the ionospheric plasma in the presence of the earth's magnetic field. Associated electric fields power the dynamo currents through the Hall effect with a resulting development of a gross electric potential distribution in the lower ionosphere. Asymmetries in these hemispheric potential distributions result in exospheric current flows in lowL-shells and larger differences in potential produced by dynamo return current flows in high magnetic latitudes result in strong currents through highL-shells between auroral zones. Vertical thunderstorm currents with their associated lightning discharges effectively connect the earth to a low potential region of the dynamo circuit and thus supply the earth with an average negative charge which motivates a leakage tropospheric electrical circuit. In addition, the dynamo currents maintain the magnetic polar regions at different potentials with a resulting electrical exchange with the solar wind through the earth''s near space. These considerations indicate that observed electrical and variable magnetic phenomena near the earth are all part of a single comprehensive electrical current system.

www.springerlink.com...

Back to whether solar activity can trigger earthquakes or not.

Solar, geomagnetic and seismic activity
A. Mazzarella and A. Palumbo

Abstract
An 11-y modulation of large Italian earthquakes has been successfully identified and found to be positively linked to sunspot activity. The seismic activity appears to be modulated by the 11-y sunspot cycle through the coherent variation of geomagnetic activity. It is proposed that the two phenomena are linked by the influence of a magnetostriction process on stresses in the crust. An implication of this model is that geomagnetic storms may directly trigger large earthquakes.
...

www.springerlink.com...

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

GREAT find - thank you - but a bit hard to read. Here's the meat.

We found a positive correlation between the atmospheric and ionospheric anomalies and the Tohoku earthquake.

Well, yeah that simplyfies it a bit.
Thank you for pointing that out sofi.

BTW, I wouldn't call telluric currents, or hurricanes, or the Sun, or other cosmic events as "little things" thou.

I guess TPTB couldn't afford to turn on HAARP, due to the economic crisis. Could we be in the 'quiet before the storm' mode? Next year will be the year. It's got to be, with all the hype! The N.W.O. can't let that opportunity 'go to waste'. Next year, things will begin to shake...one way or another.

Anyway, here is another peer-reviewed research paper that corroborates what I am saying.

Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 7, 02070, 2005
SRef-ID: 1607-7962/gra/EGU05-A-02070
© European Geosciences Union 2005

Telluric currents add stress to seismoactive zones and
regulate earthquake activity

meetings.copernicus.org...

The above is a more recent research work by Duma.

The study of variations in geophysical fields near focal zones of Kamchatka
Purchase
$ 31.50


References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.


V.I. Myachkina, G.A. Soboleva, N.A. Dolbilkinaa, V.N. Morozowa and V.B. Preobrazenskya

aInstitute of Physics of The Earth, Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R., Moscow U.S.S.R.

Received 7 August 1971. Available online 10 April 2003.

Abstract
This report contains the main results of recent investigations of telluric currents and sounding in seismoactive areas of East Kamchatka.

It was established that in some cases the variations of seismic waves' travel times amounted to 0.16 sec and the amplitude variations to 50%.

It was detected that the amplitude anomalies of telluric current field occurred before shallow earthquakes with M4.5. They reached about 100–300 mv/mm before 3–16 days of shock moment.

The physical interpretation of occurring effects has been carried out on the basis of laboratory and theoretical investigations.

www.sciencedirect.com...

I'd read all that but frankly I don't care
I don't know those scientists from carrot top

I don't even know why I keep pretending to care, when I don't
If an earthquake hits tomorrow, I'll just trust you, hows that?

If no earthquake happens tomorrow, I'll never read another post written by you at all.

And since no one will give me an EXACT PREDICTED STRENGTH, then any earthquake that isn't over 7.0 doesn't count. Any earthquakes in Japan are also excluded, because they're expected to have aftershocks.

And volcanoes that erupt all the time, automatically don't count.


and I just stepped on a spider, we're all screwed....


the point is, if the storms affected us and were THAT significant, wouldn't we know it by now? couldn't we predict with certainty? wouldn't there be less dead people in Japan????

We already know they can affect electronics, so what point exactly are you trying to make?

do CME's cause earthquakes? some science says so??
even boncho managed to prove he's a God through science.


in all the energy you're putting into posting these massively boring quotes, to convince a whole lot of strangers, on a forum no less, that YOU'RE RIGHT and we're always going to be wrong....

have you directed even a small portion of that energy into finding out what OTHER scientists, who disagree with these findings, have to say in the matter?

I bet they're out there. I bet you could find them.
Much better than I could


if the only thing you're trying to convince me is that the sun has "some" (however minor) effect on this planet - well "here's your sign"

if I go outside, in the sun, I get warm. thats all the proof I need.
whether or not the sun itself, alone, causes earthquakes, is a whole other issue - and the one I've been addressing all along.


AND NEVER have I EVER heard anyone make that claim, until I came to ATS.
but I could be wrong
I usually am ♥

you're free to continue your quoting now

Originally posted by Forevever
I'd read all that but frankly I don't care
I don't know those scientists from carrot top

If you don't care then don't read anything posted in these forums. I am posting the information for those who care and want to read the facts. No one is forcing you to read these facts, but if they bother you so much perhaps it is better if you don't read any threads from forums like this one.

Originally posted by Forevever
If no earthquake happens tomorrow, I'll never read another post written by you at all.

I haven't made any predictions about a quake hitting tomorrow, so I don't know where you got that. I presented evidence that solar activity, and other cosmic events, do have an effect on Earth, and they are not minor.

Originally posted by Forevever
And volcanoes that erupt all the time, automatically don't count.

Volcanoes that erupt all the time? Really? Since 2004 when I started being a member here, and several other members as well we have been pointing out that seismic and magmatic activity has been on the increase and evidence seemed to sugest they would continue increasing, which is exactly what has happened.

Originally posted by Forevever
and I just stepped on a spider, we're all screwed....

Right, and a spider is the Sun... In case you didn't know the Sun constitutes 99.8% of all matter in the Solar System, so changes occurring to it will affect the Earth and won't be so small.

Several of us have also been proving for years that the climate changes we have been seeing where predicted over 3 decades before and the factor which was predicted which would change dramatically the climate is the fact that the Solar System has been entering a new region of space of the Local Fluff which would affect the climate, and other natural phenomenon on Earth and other planets.

Earth has not been the only planet going through Climate Changes, and other drastic physical changes, every planet, and even moons with an atmosphere in the Solar System have been experiencing Climate Change and in the form of Global Warming just as Earth has.

Events that happen in the Solar System, and outside it do affect us here on Earth.

Originally posted by Forevever
the point is, if the storms affected us and were THAT significant, wouldn't we know it by now? couldn't we predict with certainty? wouldn't there be less dead people in Japan????

Just like you a lot of people don't care until it affects them, and they think "it will not happen to me." Look at all those people living in California even with all the earthqukes which keep occurring, and scientists saying that a big one is overdue, yet almost no one from California leaves. The same thing happened in New Orleans, and it will happen over, and over, and over, and most people will not recant until they are an statistic.

Originally posted by Forevever
We already know they can affect electronics, so what point exactly are you trying to make?

...That the Sun activity, and what happens to Earth's magnetic shield will affect us in many ways, and not just frying electronics...

Originally posted by Forevever
do CME's cause earthquakes? some science says so??
even boncho managed to prove he's a God through science.

I posted several, not just some peer-reviewed papers, and really making stupid analogies does not refute anything.

Originally posted by Forevever
in all the energy you're putting into posting these massively boring quotes, to convince a whole lot of strangers, on a forum no less, that YOU'RE RIGHT and we're always going to be wrong....

So a forum where people are supposed to find the truth facts, and evidence doesn't matter?... I am not here to prove I am right, but to give people knowledge. A lot of people become confrontational, and try to demean the proof that others and I post, and they don't like it when they are shown to be wrong, and obviously you seem to be one of those people.

You can take this evidence or leave it, but don't tell me there is no evidence to corroborate what I am saying because there is.

Originally posted by Forevever
have you directed even a small portion of that energy into finding out what OTHER scientists, who disagree with these findings, have to say in the matter?

And what have you done but give your opinionated claims without any proof at all?

Other scientists can disagree, like other scientists disagree with the fact that AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) is a hoax, and a scam, but the evidence proves that it is.

Evidence, and facts are always there, and people from all walks of life can agree or disagree with them, that is up to the individual.

You know, for someone who says he/she doesn't care about this topic you sure are writing a lot of nonsense trying to debunk the evidence I presented with only opinionated claims, and analogies that really make no sense.

In case you didn't know information is knowledge, and knowledge is power, but if real knowledge does not interest you perhaps you should continue watching that "boncho" fella you seem to like so much.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

And to corroborate what I just said, which btw I have explained these processes in the past, even years ago in these same forums.

I've gone over Duma's paper, and some of the related references. It makes perfect sense that telluric currents would be influenced by solar activity, for exactly the same reason a compass needle will show diurnal variations. I do not find Duma's data sufficiently compelling, however. The 11 year earthquake cycle does not seem to match up across all the geographical locations. The Russian paper may simply indicate that the stress on the tectonic plates are responsible for the changes in the telluric currents, not the other way around. What this suggests is that solar activity should be accounted for when observing telluric currents for earthquake prediction. It doesn't really suggest causality.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


you forgot this one

if the only thing you're trying to convince me is that the sun has "some" (however minor) effect on this planet - well "here's your sign"

if I go outside, in the sun, I get warm. thats all the proof I need.
whether or not the sun itself, alone, causes earthquakes, is a whole other issue - and the one I've been addressing all along.

or ignored it completely

Here's your sign.

Originally posted by DJW001

I've gone over Duma's paper, and some of the related references. It makes perfect sense that telluric currents would be influenced by solar activity, for exactly the same reason a compass needle will show diurnal variations.

If you can accept that Telluric Currents are influenced by solar activity, and we know for a fact that Telluric currents do affect the oceans, and in general the atmosphere, the lithosphere and mantle are affected by such Telluric Currents, then logic would tell you that solar activity does influence the Earth's atmosphere, the lithosphere and the mantle.

Originally posted by DJW001
I do not find Duma's data sufficiently compelling, however. The 11 year earthquake cycle does not seem to match up across all the geographical locations. The Russian paper may simply indicate that the stress on the tectonic plates are responsible for the changes in the telluric currents, not the other way around. What this suggests is that solar activity should be accounted for when observing telluric currents for earthquake prediction. It doesn't really suggest causality.

I showed more than just the Russian paper, and they do show causality when changes in the telluric currents, and for example ULF magnetic field emissions occur BEFORE seismic/volcanic events.

Also if you want to claim there is no correlation perhaps you should point out these discrepancies.

If you want more research papers that show this correlation you only need ask, there are many of them.