Egypt was a Matriarchy according to American Men Soldiers: HUMAN FLESHY QUEENS mislabeled fictitious

reply to post by MapMistress


It's not absolute but there is alot of truth to your assessment.

Even among the Hebrews (Avraham and Sarai were half brother/sister sharing the same biological father) through Issac and Jacob the clan was very much Patrilineal until King Solomon changed the laws and it then became Matrilineal although Israeli males still have the "Patrilineal" mentality but use the Matrilineal lineage to decide who is Jewish or not. Fact is, in Torah it was always Patrilineal from beginning to end.

wow great post.
it will take me some days to think about this.

I believe that in the past women ruled.
but some thing happened with the men?
they got sick of it and rebelled. maybe ?
just look at the way women have been treated in the past.
and with religions. they make the woman out to be evil!
adam and eve. she's to blame for it all.
and its only in the last about 60 years
that women have started to get equality.
when a man marred a woman.
he could rape her legally ! in england.
and look at others around the world.
why are women so low ?
some thing is being hidden from us ALL.

reply to post by MapMistress

wants to trace the bloodline of Egyptian royalty down the appropriate maternal side as it is supposed to be done--then you find the 10,000 names of Asets/Isis/Queens.

What would the average ruling time of a Queen? Half a generation; 30 years?
15 x 10,000 = 150,000?
This can't be right...

Kali yuga....notice they are twins..the female is standing over the male...2012...female starts to win over male..




Many of these statues in Egypt...who owns who??

Can someone post these up without the external link?? If you can...thank you in advance

I dont think the government would be the only ones covering it up, the entire muslim nation,not to mention the christians and the jews that live there would basically not care about the corrupt past(it wasnt them) but also want absolutely nothing to do with it, can't say I blame them, men having no rights over thier own children, absurd, thank GOD that crap is done away with. It's like how often do you here Americans saying oh yeah some of the people who use to live here use to sacrifice kids and virgins.

reply to post by reeferman


How can a nose clearly be a woman's?!?! Seriously....I don't think it's all that possible to clearly tell a person's gender from their nose.....That seems rather silly to be perfectly honest....I've heard the theory that the nose was blown off because it was 'clearly' that of a black man.....and while I'm not sure I buy that theory, it would at least make more sense that the nose being blown off to hide it's gender. Now had the Sphinx's 'Adam's Apple' been blown off instead...then I'd think that idea might have a point!

I think this was brilliantly displayed. Well Researched, Well done! S/F

this of course is going to upset some of the ultra macho dudes who rule the roost, those

types would never agree to this. On another note, i do recall something i read some time

ago now, i'll have to find it, that the hebrew God was in fact Female and worshipped by

all until taken over by Men by brute force and a male god thus evolved along with religion

as we know it today.

I'm liking the cut of your Jib OP!
Interesting read that was - And I've barely woken up enough to drink my first coffee.
Unfortunately though, this may ruffle a few cock feathers.

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by reeferman

 

How can a nose clearly be a woman's?!?! Seriously....I don't think it's all that possible to clearly tell a person's gender from their nose.....That seems rather silly to be perfectly honest....I've heard the theory that the nose was blown off because it was 'clearly' that of a black man.....and while I'm not sure I buy that theory, it would at least make more sense that the nose being blown off to hide it's gender. Now had the Sphinx's 'Adam's Apple' been blown off instead...then I'd think that idea might have a point!

Come off it...We all know the Sphinx has a nose like this..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ca9180efac10.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Haxsaw


Considering how many men abandon their children, abuse their wives and children or father many children with different mothers, I would have to totally disagree with you.

I am fortunate to have a devoted hubby who has a sense of responsibility. A woman who abandons her children is subject to far more stigma than a man.

I say we go back to the more sensible system. No normal mother would go through pregnancy and childbirth to sacrifice the child. I think child sacrifice was likely a male invention.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes. Embracing the "far more obscure" yes yes... you believe what you want to. Its so easy to become interested with something when its surrounded by mystery and you can do all this cute little conjectures... specially egypt... "oh its so weird... wow was it a matriarchy? Were the pyramids build by aliens? How come the pyramids are in perfect alignment with the orion's belt? Wow they must have been contacted by aliens and they possessed this awesome alien technology and stargates and crap... wooo I'm so excited".

But then you stop. Think. Look at occam's razor... think a bit more... aaaaaaaaand sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Hate to see you all disappointed when theres no freakin alien intervention, no mysteries... just hard work from men and women... since the beginning of time, and the conventional theories are right after all and... nothing to see here... move along.

I'm not trying to pull you out from your fairy tale but... ever wonder why the european middle ages dont attract this kind of "mystery-moth ppl"? I'll let you come to a conclusion.

Now for this matriarchy theory... yes its so cool, so nice, so well put, so... yadda yadda yadda and yet I ask you... have you ever been to egypt? Have you ever seen "ancient egypt" upclose and personal? Have you ever touched it and translated it? Of course you havent... only that is the reason that you believe ancient egypt was a matriarchy.

This is not being old fashioned and being stuck in the main stream theories... this is sticking to facts. And unless something appears telling me otherwise, I have absolutely no reason to think otherwise, specially when it sounds completely absurd. Yet mysteries surrounding egypt are so cool... weee... its like those ppl still finding "mysterious" that stupid abydos recarving insisting thats a freakin helicopter.

I just think you guys like to turn stuff more spicy... because "well it cant be just this, it has to be more". Well.... sometimes its just this.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I ask you... Have you ever seen "ancient egypt" upclose and personal?

I ask you... Have you ?

reply to post by louieprima


I know my unit had orders to deploy to the Sinai Egypt border back in 2001. At the last minute we had new orders cut to deploy to Germany. I have several friends that have served in Egypt on the Sinai border. I know very little about everything else in this thread haha, but US soldiers are definitely there ...or atleast were from 2001 to 2009.

There were very few true matriarchies, anywhere, I used to study this somewhat, and any time you see a reverse of patriarchy, ie, women warriors, men as second or third class citizens, then all it is is the whim of a powerful dictator, a female ruler, who based her concept or model off of patriarchy. Any form of matriarchy based off of patriarchy is simply reverse patriarchy, or what I call patriarchy in disguise, for it doesn't matter which sex is considered more human than the other, the idea of inequality is patriarchy.

True matriarchy, like feminism, are merely controversial terms (ie. they are best renamed or people get upset), for equality, a classless system, where councils of men and women equally run things, and everyone is valued equally.

Those are the female values, the true universal ones through every age, that rarely have seen the light of day in this world, except perhaps in hidden clans here and there.

Otherwise we're just talking about a transitory power grab, based on patriarchal values, class, inequality and pyramid systems.

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
I know my unit had orders to deploy to the Sinai Egypt border back in 2001. At the last minute we had new orders cut to deploy to Germany.

Oh that Nefertiti, she can never make up her mind! Does she want to live in Germany as Hitler's widow, or return to Egypt and risk the mobs of Islamists that would destroy her?! I say we preserve her in double-inch bulletproof glass if she decides to ever go back to her place of birth.

Anyway OP, I like your research, but I'd say not to get too caught up in the names and stuff. I'd say that the really effective method is to boil it down, simplify it. and you have done that quite well in the core respects. but I'd say names and such are less important than the dynamics.

And when I refer to dynamics, I am talking about the Ogdoad, which rather than "animal tribes". The Ogdoad is an 8-fold rebirth template, which is the real Genesis of these family relations. That is to say, we all get born into some of these positions and we all move through these positions, as we age, according to the way of life. These eight archetypes are:

GIRL > WOMAN > MOTHER > GRANDMOTHER

and

BOY > MAN > FATHER > GRANDFATHER

And so as you can see, each sex passes into and through the Ogdoad, irreducibly, as they move through life. And each stage represents the death of the previous stage. That is to say, when a girl becomes a woman (at her first menses) there is no going back. Similarly, when a man becomes a grandfather, he cannot ever go back to being JUST a father. So the dynamic of the Ogdoad is the real origin of Egyptian family templates, and yes, it is also mirrored in animal families and so a great part of what you say has merit in this context as well. The coyote pup, is not a mother. and when this little pup becomes able to breed, she will get knocked up, and can never be a pup again. And similarly, animals age, and become grandfather coyotes and grandmother coyotes, so I am saying that I think one has a superior HUMAN aspect which I have described, because we do not see animals preserving their oldsters, as do humans. It is the Ogdoad which encourages us to rise into the supreme archetype which suits us, and in this way, we rise above the 2D animal kingdom, and into the larger world of humanoid considerations, namely as you mention the Native Americans, this is observed by their general adoration of their oldsters, their grannies and their grampas, and this shows their higher perspective as opposed to their neighboring tribe who may have just the animal "life is hard" type of modality. One has a superior spirit.

Anyway, can you comment on Sarah and the Pharaoh? I am not sure if both Nefertiti AND Akhenaten were born from Tiye, I think maybe Nefertiti was born from a sister of Tiye, which would still place her in the Tuya-family. And if she was in the Tuya family then both Akhenaten and Nefertiti would have been progeny of Yuya, which means that both of them were direct descendants of the biblical Joseph, which Yuya is. Therefore, it makes Akhenaten and Nefertiti the ancestors of Sarah, who refreshed the bloodline of the 18th Dynasty.

I would also say that my comments on this stuff, are based on what I see as the Ogdoad-message which I believe was promoted in Amarna, according to the idols and objects found there. These objects are essentially, little girls holding an egg and symbolizing the goddess (which supports your thesis) but also there were found bas relief of the royal family, all together, and being loving. I feel these are evidence that Akhenaten was trying to get away from the demeaning 2D animal type of religion which the priests used to control the people, and toward the higher idea of the Ogdoad. I feel that they really tried to make the human family unit, the supreme authority, over and above the priestly class, and that they paid the ultimate price for that attempt. I see Amarna as a heroic place where the family unit was suggested as being a higher authority than the priests. Even today that idea would cause mass hysteria as the family unit is merely an economic cipher and even then it is the biggest threat to the priests who seek power over every family, just like back then.

Anyway good post OP, looking forward to your comments. Oh and why not throw in some bonobo comments as well? Humans have more bonobo than chimp in them, and these two species are very different in their familial and inter-tribal relations.

Star and Flag for your work, OP. The Gauls also had a similar system, although not quite as matriarchal. Women tended to be chiefs of villages as men went to fight wars, hunt, etc. Since the women stayed in the villages and tended to the children, it simply made sense for them to handle day-to-day business. Men were usually war chiefs, but not all the time. Some of the tribes insisted on having woman warlords as they would think differently from male warriors and have different strategies which would be difficult for a man to think of. And woman could also be warriors and hunters, as long as they didn't have children.

"Almost all the world we live in today is intensely patriarchal. Some people need
definitions before they can understand what this word means. Our daily lives give us just the fact of patriarchy, without pinpointing any of its characteristics. Like birds raised in cages, women raised in a patriarchal system usually come to think of it as a normal way of hu...man beings to live."

"Only women who are enabled to sense a female divinity within their own spirit can bring about the profound changes that need to be made if humanity is to last much longer as one of earth's life forms. The survival of any species depends on the nurturing behavior of it females, not the aggressive behavior of its males. It seems clear that the best hope for humanity is to return to its prepatriarchal ethic of male submission to the Goddess spirit, not in the hierarchical sense that men understand as power-over."

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Oh and why not throw in some bonobo comments as well? Humans have more bonobo than chimp in them, and these two species are very different in their familial and inter-tribal relations.

Interesting. However, I couldn't help but laugh after familiarizing myself with these bonobos.

Cheers,
Strype

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by MapMistress

 

Dr. Daniel Jackson? Is that you?

It has been widely accepted that in many societies, woman ruled over the clan. Without their birth giving abilities, the clan would die off.

But in conflict is where man ruled, not woman. There are tales of women warriors, but if they were so apt at combat, then we would still see to this day, women generals aplenty. But then again, maybe the circle is complete as we are now seeing just that more often. But not in the Arab world.

Ahh, but without mans sperm shooting abilities the clan would die off also. And as for not seeing any women generals, I figured they just grew out of war, unlike us mere males.

Star and flag OP. Well presented piece.

Very interesting Mistress.

The modern lens taints people to an extent, in that they cannot imagine what you are talking about. It would seem unnatural, unlikely, impossible.

But I suspect you've hit something. I suspect men had more latitude of action than you are accounting for. Being relieved one's biological responsibilities likely lends itself to a certain amount of narcissism. A trait which tends to covet power.

As an interesting side note, vaguely related - Do you know what trait it is that makes the Alpha Wolf the Alpha Wolf? His hunting? His aggression?

No. He becomes the Alpha Wolf, because the Alpha Female Wolf chooses him for her mate.

We all get regaled by the stories about how women look for men with power. About how guys are so upset when "all" the women they covet are pretty bitches. I wonder why it never occurs to them, that the men are preening after the pretty bitches. It is because they covet the position of being the mate of that woman.